Forced substitution?

quote:

Originally posted by T-town:
I was watching a College game this past opening weekend that was streamed via the internet. After a foul ball, the coach on offense came out to the plate ump and was gesturing out to right field. PU goes down the line to talk with 1st base ump and then 3rd ump comes in. Apparently a ball got away in the bullpen and a player backing up the pen ran onto the field in RF to retrieve the ball.... during live play (?). After a few minutes of discussion the PU made the RF come off the field being replaced by the player who came onto the field to get the ball.
The fellows announcing the game never did give any explanation as to what had come down... but I assume it was a 'forced sub'?
Never heard of that one before.... do I have this right?

I believe that would be an unannounced substitute. The pertinent NCAA Rule is: "Should there be no announcement of substitution, the substitute becomes a legal player when a fielder reaches the position usually occupied by the fielder being replaced and play commences."

So that would be the case even if they were both there @ the same time. There was no 'view' of what had occured out in RF. I'm assuming that the backup in the pen ran onto the field during play. I'm sure he quickly ran off... but how far he had to go to get the errant ball I do not know. But the RF was the closest player to him so I guess that's why he was pulled.

Kudos to the opposing coach for knowing the rule and getting a starter out of the game because of a brain cramp by the bullpen catcher...

I wonder why this wasn't called before the discussion? Perhaps a case of, "I'm not calling that unless I have to?"

I guess that you probably don't have it right.
If there were actually a stray ball on the field which a not-in-the-game player is chasing, then it is quite a stretch to consider that to be an unannounced substitution. Moreover, if play had commenced with 10 defensive players on the field, that would mean the umpire didn't see the stray ball or the extra player, right?

I wouldn't bother posting about this, but it appears that no one posting or reading here knows what happened. Speculation is likely to be wrong.

A guy chasing a ball from the bull-pen is not in the game.

I have a hunch as to why the forced substitution occurred--what game was this?

quote:

Originally posted by 3FingeredGlove:
I guess that you probably don't have it right.
If there were actually a stray ball on the field which a not-in-the-game player is chasing, then it is quite a stretch to consider that to be an unannounced substitution. Moreover, if play had commenced with 10 defensive players on the field, that would mean the umpire didn't see the stray ball or the extra player, right?

I wouldn't bother posting about this, but it appears that no one posting or reading here knows what happened. Speculation is likely to be wrong.

I assumed the OP was 100% accurate. If the umps did in fact require that substitution, my guess is (pure speculation) they all got suspended.

Towson-Citadel on Friday. It was not a pen catcher that came in, but I guess it was a player backing up a catcher. Pen is set up with pitchers throwing toward the outfield corner. And the foul fence would probably deflect a ball into play by the looks of it.
Umps discussed for a minute or so... then the video showed the RF coming off the field with a "whats going on" gesture, while you could see the other player going out to his spot from the pen area.

Checking the box later, it showed the sub... and the player coming in did get a hit and a RBI later!?

But I have yet to talk with any player or spectator who was there.... just going by the little bit of info the announcers gave and what you could watch on the live feed. Play was stopped... coach talked with PU... PU talked a bit with BU's and PU did say something to the other coach 'from a distance'... other coach never left the dugout so no argument.

http://www.citadelsports.com/s...es/20120217_muzw.xml

Box score does show a non-batting substitute. There is a link to video, but not able to watch it at work.

I have no idea how an umpire came to determine this was the right action in this situation.

It'll cost you $3.95 to watch the video and I'm not THAT curious.

I find it quite amazing that a coach could come out and convince an umpire to call something like that.

There has to be more to this story.

If OBR had this rule, can you imagine deep in a game when the streaker jumps out of the stands in left and makes a run for it and three security guards chase him around the outfield, would they stay in the game? Who plays which position? Does the third security guard replace the streaker? The MLB minimum is about $2,500 a game, would they have to pay all four of them? How many roster spots would they have to keep open for these issues? What if the streaker is out of options (due to previous drunken adventures)?

Hopefully some more information on the op can be provided because it just doesn't make sense.

If true, I want that coach in my next performance review.

quote:

Originally posted by JMoff:

If OBR had this rule...

It does.

I got the scoop this AM.
Player comes in the previous inning to PR.. in the RF's spot in the lineup. Next inning another player is in RF..
Between pitches in the first at bat of that inning, the player who was in to pinch run prior, comes running onto the field trying to take the spot. Not sure if the new RF had 'beat feet' off the field when this happened.

After the discussion they ruled he(PR from previous inning who ran onto the field) was no longer in the game and neither was the new RF who had started the inning.

Sorry for the mis-info about the stray ball... the announcers had been speculating about a stray ball..

That makes the story much different. So basically you have a PR for F9, then in the next inning the PR is replaced by another player who we have to assume is unreported. For whatever reason the PR tries to replace the new F9 which forces the replacement, but the PR is now an illegal sub.
So you PR for F9, sub for PR, PR tries to return and becomes an illegal sub forcing the new F9 out, sub to replace new F9.

quote:

Originally posted by T-town:
I got the scoop this AM.
Player comes in the previous inning to PR.. in the RF's spot in the lineup. Next inning another player is in RF..
Between pitches in the first at bat of that inning, the player who was in to pinch run prior, comes running onto the field trying to take the spot. Not sure if the new RF had 'beat feet' off the field when this happened.

After the discussion they ruled he(PR from previous inning who ran onto the field) was no longer in the game and neither was the new RF who had started the inning.

Sorry for the mis-info about the stray ball... the announcers had been speculating about a stray ball..

Oh...well that's very different.

Never mind.

quote:

Originally posted by dash_riprock:

quote:

Originally posted by JMoff:

If OBR had this rule...

It does.

Apparently streakers don't count...

The latest description clarifies things...