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What does it take for a position-player to play varsity their freshman year? I understand their are early bloomers and nationally known phenoms, but I am more specifically asking about players that have average size(130-160pounds,no more than 6') Would you want them to posses tremendous hitting qualities, or would you be looking for someone who is more of a defensive specialist? And how much enphasis would you put on speed and arm strength? Would you want that person to be a major contributer, someone who is more of a utility player off the bench, or someone who is on varsity because of his future potential, and not neccesarily getting much playing time? And if you saw an early bloomer and a late bloomer, the early bloomer proucing more results in power and things that require tremendous strength, and adequate at his position because of his physical maturity, and the late bloomer with more skills and able to do the things very well for his size(Such as hit for average, and speed to a lesser degree because he is a late bloomer and fielding ability) with a lot of upside that would come with size, who would you take?
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In a typical large school situation, for that kind of player, I'd look for agility, the ability to swing the bat, and knowledge of the game..."baseball smarts" if you will. Speed would have to be very good if you ONLY look at him for pinch running. Otherwise, I wouldn't put so much emphasis on speed at that age. As a catcher or firstbaseman, he'd have to be strong with the bat, not necessarily deep power, but hard contact. Arm strength would only matter if he were to be a regular catcher, firstbaseman not so important at this point.

For him to play as a sub at a speed position, he'd have to have a decent arm, but not necessarily exceptional. To play as a regular, the arm or the bat would have to excede the upperclassman that was getting passed over. If he wasn't going to play a great deal, he'd have to have the head to understand why he was up on varsity...to learn, and that his contribution would be expected as a sophmore. If he won't be expected to contribute as a sophmore, he shouldn't be up as a freshman.


In a smaller school situation, all he'd have to have would be a little bit of talent and the ability to put on his uniform, fill out the roster, and chase foul balls. He'd probably contribute a good bit if he was worth a flip, since the smallest schools are often hard up for decent players.
How important is a players physical maturity and strength? Does the player need to be bigger, faster, stronger than the upperclassman, or does he just need to be able to do the things like hit, run and throw better? Will a caoch have prejudices if he thinks the player will be not be able to deal with things like sliding into a catcher outweighing him by a eighty pounds?

Its not how good you are; its how well you play - scout
My oldest son hit his way into a starting position on his varsity team. He was a power hitting first baseman and the coach gave him a chance to help the team. He replaced a senior at that position. Two seniors ended up quitting the team and it was rumored that my son playing was part of the reason. I also watched the coach sit my son on the bench after two errors at first during a tournament. After some after practice work he was back on the bag. As a freshman he challenged a senior for the number of doubles hit for the season. After transferring to another school his junior year he took the DH position and played some outfield on a very talented team. His senior year a sophmore played the outfield while he filled the DH spot. The sophmore had better speed and deserved that spot.
My youngest son is a catcher for his jr. high team. The starting and back-up catchers for the varsity team are seniors. The varsity coach is taking a strong look at my youngest to take that position next year. He told my son that defense comes first at catcher and the bat is second.
Both schools would probably be considered small(one has an enrollment of less than a 1,000 and the other has an enrollment of around 1200).

"Every member of our baseball team at West Point became a general; this proves the value of team sports." --General Omar Bradley
I generally don't think that freshmen are ready to make the jump to the varsity. Most of the time they are not physically ready, and nearly all the time they are not mentally ready. If a freshman can make the jump, start every game, and make a major difference in the success of the program, I'd say bring him up. If he only plays part-time and/or only impacts the team a game or two in the win column (unless those wins are in the tournament at the end of the year), I'd leave him on JV and give him a chance to dominate at the lower levels before promoting him.
quote:
Originally posted by Coach May:
It all depends on the quality of the players you have in your program. If he can come in and help the team win then hes on the varsity. If he is going to sit the bench and not play then he goes to the JV.

I agree with Coach May.

The purpose of a HS program is to win games and the HS coach has the responsibility to field his best team.

If you have a freshman/sophomore who is going to be a contributor to the varsity squad, then that is where he belongs. You would also like to structure your program where you have underclassmen on the varsity each year working with and learning from the seniors in order to build continuity in the program.

A freshman on varsity who isn't always starting or is playing a role (abeit sometimes a major role) is:
1) still facing better competition in games
2) playing with better players in practice
3) still has his summer/fall teams where he can be "the man"
4) is NOT going to be hindered in his development phyically between his freshman/junior years because he didn't play every inning of every game.
5) is going to develop the confidence (which is of vital importance) to take his game to the next level.

He is also going to learn another valuable lesson. The team is of paramount importance. Individuals come second.
My son was the starting catcher on his varsity team his freshman year. The thing that was the hardest for him was being 14yrs old when most of the players on team were 17 and 18 years old.He was the only one that did not drive a car,Or "really knew about girls" then. He had to adjust to the varsity locker room. I can only guess what was said and done in there!! What im trying to say is.Even if your kid can hit the ball a mile,run like a deer,have gun for a arm. Make sure he can handle the other side of Varsity.
Bucs000 thats a great point and one that every coach considers when bringing up a talented younger player. Usually the kids that are talented enough to make this kind up jump are much more mature for their age anyway. Also its another reason you need to make sure that you have quality kids in your program because I dont want your kid or my kid or anyones kid to be around negative or bad influences. The older kids in a quality program should not only mentor the younger players in the game of baseball they should help mentor them in the game of life. The coach is not always going to be around to monitor situations. Having quality young men in your program helps in more ways than most people ever realize.
bucs000...my son played up on varsity as a pitcher...his freshman year, he's a senior now. Keep in mind we're a small school with a limited amount of guys to select from...

not that he didn't have success on the mound, but the negative side to that was indeed that he was not welcomed by all of the older guys...

once his pitching sleeves were filled with mud while he was pitching...during a game.

he dealt with things I cannot write about in open forum like this...

looking back, I would have rather seen him participate on the JV team with his peers instead of having gone thru this...

no lasting damage to his ego...since he did have a successful season...

however, the coach could have solved some of those issues...but he got fired that season - as well...after a brawl hit the paper and a guy ended up in the hospital from a swinging bat...coach even broke his finger during the fight...it was a tough year to say the least...

walk ....the journey isn't always easy..but perseverance pays off...as one webster on here always says, "the cream rises to the top".
I think you hit it on the head when you said that the coach could have handled the difficulties better. We will start with 5 freshmen on the varsity roster this year, and at least will be starting (yeah, we are one of those really small schools.) and I have already sat all of the players down and explained that no mistreatment of the younger players will be tolerated. BTW, in our scrimmages Saturday one of the Frosh really impressed some of the older guys with some excellent plays.
It is easier for us, but it can be done successfully.
My son started on Varsity his freshman year. He played every game and excelled...(big school, enrollment of 2400).He had 5 homeruns and averaged 385. He had no problems with his teammates, it was the parents of other kids that we had problems with. I had one mom come up to me and him and start yelling at me that when my son was a senior she hoped some wise guy freshman would take his place on varsity and see how we will like it...oh well, son said, if hes better at my position, he will deserve the start. I guess he was mature enough for varsity.
Real players recognize talent and are glad when anyone yes even a freshman can help them win. If the young kid is getting hazed then the coach has a responsibility to make sure that those kids are taken care of and it stops. 2nd basemom is right on the money. The players handle it a whole lot better than some parents do. But that might be part of the reason that a Freshman has taken a Seniors job. Maybe he is spoiled and coddled.
My son practiced with the varsity from day one of his freshman year, I thought he would "start" with varsity, but when opening day came, he started with JV; kept practicing with varsity each day, but played JV.

After numerous complete games pitched, several shutouts and a NO-NO, varsity coach brought him up half-way thru season. He played 1st base, back-up, for a starting pitcher/1st baseman, and pitched some...got 2-3 "starts" and coach let him go as long as he could.

I thought this was the best for him, as he got to play with his peers, and also got "a taste" of what to look forward to his soph.year. If a player "proves" themselves at the lower level, that should alleviate all players/parents fears as to him coming up.... (but thinking back, I remember some "funny looks" from the older players parents when we showed up at some games, but his play at first and pitching quieted those looks)

We cannot control the wind, but we can adjust our sails!
Does anybody have any advice on how to make the varsity team as a freshman? Hw can you catch a coaches eye in a way that will show that you belong on varsity? And does anyone have any tips on playing with older players, lke if you were playing on varsity as a freshman?

the view is always the same unless you're the lead dog
Well I agree with TR but if you mustplay varsity...any coach usually recognizes baseball smarts. Do you understand the game. Particularly importnt for infielders. Of course being better at the five tools than your competition also helps.

If I had to choose between a junior that made mental mistakes, was not aggressive and lacked decision making ability and had a freshman that had these characteristics -- ability being relatively equal I'd keep the freshman. In HS many games are still lost rather than won. It's the ability to know how 'not to lose" that separates HS programs IMHO.
My son is an eighth-grader on the freshman team, but has been assigned to practice with the varsity. The coach has done a great job building a team enviroment - they treat him just like one of the other varsity players. This is not a small school, they are 4A and state runner-ups last year. The coach never had to give any ultimatums to the team because he has them all believing in him and supporting his decisions. I have heard a few comments from some parents (now there's a surprise, huh). The players compliment him and offer advice to him all the time.
My 14year old eigth grader is starting catcher on his varsity team. He doesn't have great speed, has decent arm strenght, compared to Junior catcher, but the reason he's starting is he's batting .405, with only 4 strike outs in 15 starts, and an OB% of .515. His batting average is second only to Junior batting +.600 (Diviion I prostpect) and ahead of other Divsion I prospect. His other real asset to the team is his nickname "NPB"..."No Pass Ball". He's ruthless at sacraficing his body to stop errant piching. He's played select since the age of 9...World Sereis loss to Peuto Rico in U-12 finals of Disney USSSA
or AAU (can't remember which). Beat them in pool play (questionable age of pitcher on PR team). He's 5'8" with 12 1/2 shoe size and 145lbs.

However, the high school is small and he probably wouldn't be starting catcher in Div. 5A school....maybe DH or 1B.

Recent newspaper article: "And in the seventh inning, junior C. Rinaldi led off with a single and then moved to second on an errant throw by the catcher on a pickoff attempt. Eighth-grader D. Guidry provided the heroics in that inning, blasting an RBI single with two outs and 2 strikes, to tie the game at 8-8. Guidry then moved to second on an error by the first baseman, on another pickoff attempt. With the game-winning run in scoring position and the Falcons’ best hitter at the plate in Longman (+.600), it appeared the momentum was in ESA’s corner."
quote:
Originally posted by squarepeg:
My 14year old eigth grader is starting catcher on his varsity team. He doesn't have great speed, has decent arm strenght, compared to Junior catcher, but the reason he's starting is he's batting .405, with only 4 strike outs in 15 starts, and an OB% of .515. His batting average is second only to Junior batting +.600 (Diviion I prostpect) and ahead of other Divsion I prospect. His other real asset to the team is his nickname "NPB"..."No Pass Ball". He's ruthless at sacraficing his body to stop errant piching. He's played select since the age of 9...World Sereis loss to Peuto Rico in U-12 finals of Disney USSSA
or AAU (can't remember which). Beat them in pool play (questionable age of pitcher on PR team). He's 5'8" with 12 1/2 shoe size and 145lbs.

However, the high school is small and he probably wouldn't be starting catcher in Div. 5A school....maybe DH or 1B.

Recent newspaper article: "And in the seventh inning, junior C. Rinaldi led off with a single and then moved to second on an errant throw by the catcher on a pickoff attempt. Eighth-grader D. Guidry provided the heroics in that inning, blasting an RBI single with two outs and 2 strikes, to tie the game at 8-8. Guidry then moved to second on an error by the first baseman, on another pickoff attempt. With the game-winning run in scoring position and the Falcons’ best hitter at the plate in Longman (+.600), it appeared the momentum was in ESA’s corner."


My catching coach has always said to stay in my age group. Far better to be a star on JV, than a bench warmer on Varsity. Does size really matter? I often hear people say that they are this tall, and weigh that much. I know kids who are tiny, but kill with the bat, and kids who are 6'5" and can't make contact.
quote:
Originally posted by mrmom:
Coach May,

You would hope that freshman who won't see much PT would play JV, but our HS coach appears content to take his best freshman and put him on Varsity then let him sit.

The ideal, IMHO, is to play on JV and practice and maybe spot play on varsity.


MrMom, we have had injuries to key players and now, I have to make a decision for the good of my varsity team. We have to use a freshman as a courtsey runner, backup infielder and outfielder. we try to get him an at bat in the game and the older kids know he needs to get to play some but it is hard to do justice to the young man. The, we sent him to a JV game the other day and that school might now drop us because we sent in a "Varsity Player." I don't know your circumstances. I'm just explaining mine. I feel so bad for the kid. However, he was on second base yesterday in a pouring rain as a courtsey runner. With his speed, I told him he was scoring on anyball hit that touched grass. A blistering one hopper was hit to the 3rd baseman and the ball bounced into foul territory. That young man went home and scored. I hope he realizes we won that second game due to his speed.
quote:
Originally posted by CoachB25:
We have to use a freshman as a courtsey runner, backup infielder and outfielder. we try to get him an at bat in the game and the older kids know he needs to get to play some but it is hard to do justice to the young man. Then, we sent him to a JV game the other day and that school might now drop us because we sent in a "Varsity Player."


WOW, what garbage! That is done all the time around here. A coach will move players back and forth between varsity and JV to get them playing time.

As long as it's not a starter or a senior, what difference does it make?
BigWI, it really has raised a stink. This coach was upset because he had an undefeated record. He called my JV coach a ... well, you can fill in the blank on that one. I have trouble sleeping at night because on one hand I need the varsity to have its best team and that team includes this young man. However, he has to play. He now has 6 stolen bases in 6 attempts on the varsity serving as the "courtsey runner." We will continue to struggle with this. If people get mad at me, they know where to find me. LOL! You are right, I thought this was common practice everywhere.
For a position player (non pitcher) to be playing on varsity as a freshman the kid has to be really good. If you have a good enough program you should have a good amount of players and there would be no need for the freshman to play up and he could play JV and be the stud of that team. Now there are alway some exceptions where the kid can flat out play and you would only hurt him if he didn't play on varsity. I personally think that offense is the key. If the kid can consistantly hit varsity pitching and can help the team win than he belongs on the team. Also the only reason he is going to be on varsity is if he is going to play. If he is not going to play don't waist a year for him and let him be the stud on the JV team.
CoachB25,

Just out of curiosity, what does your AD say about this? What about the league commissioner?

Don't lose sleep, As far as I can tell you did the right thing. You have to do what you think is right for your program, not the other coaches. That's their problem.

If I were in your shoes I would probably have written a rather nasty letter to the AD at the other school. (this is not a suggestion, just a comment on how I would have reacted).
BigWI, our AD is very supportive of whatever I do. He realizes that I carry a lot of baggage with me as far as what other schools think but that I do my best for my kids. This was a non conference game and so, they can do what they want. Since I've been here, we have had over 10 schools drop us. This has been good for us because we filled those games with schools from a conference that has larger schools than us. (Most of those schools that dropped us were in our old conference before I came here.) I think key to my concerns is that the parents are supportive. They see I'm trying to get him an at bat/game and trying to put him in the field an inning or two. They also realize that I send him down the second game of double headers to the JV so he can at least get in a game there. This situation wouldn't bother me any but I am friends with the head coach and so, I don't want any hard feeling between he and I.
How should a freshman prepare for the varsity competition? My son has played AAU for a number of years with a solid program( at best #1 in the state, at worst top 10, usually somehwhere in between). Should he try to move on to a better program to get ready, at the expense of time and $$, or play Junior Legion or American Legion?
Swingin 7,

The answer to your question depends on the desires of your coach. Some coaches have no problem which team a kid plays for as long as he's playing. others insist they play with the HS kids in summer fall to the maximum extent possible. Then there are those few "visionaries" who allow kids to play on multiple teams (both HS and select) with an eye for the kids best interest.

Bottom Line check your HS coaches opinion because some coaches will hold it against a player if they don't play with the team they think they should play with.
The answer to that question is play where the competition is the best. If Jr Legion is going to provide him a greater challenge than AAU then play Jr Legion. As a High School coach I want my guys to play at the highest level they can in the off season. This only makes my program stronger for the next season. Last year we had every kid in the program Varsity and Junior Varsity playing for someone over the summer. I make it very clear that there is no off season for ball players only a chance to get better. We break it down like this. Feb to May High School season. June to August summer season ie Legion AAU etc. Sept to Jan strength and conditioning season long toss individual time. There are kids that play fall ball during the Sept to Nov time but we have the strength and conditioning time for everyone. So as you can see High School season 4 months. Summer season 3 months. Most important time to work on getter bigger faster stronger and individually better 5 months. In my opinion that 5 month period is where kids seperate themselves from the rest either by getter better or not taking advantage of this time and getting left behind by those that do.
I played Jv as an 8th grader and varsity as a 9th grader. started at short on both. varisty team made it deep in to the playoffs. i was about 5"6' 130 pounds at the time of my freshman year. I think my baseball smarts, my work ethic, and my fundamentals are what got me the spots. I am currently in my senior year on the team and I'm reall enjoying it. I think all kids with good talent should try out for the varsity team if they feel they have the ability to make it and the school permits them. Worst comes to worst you move down to Jv. Give it your best shot! Hoep that helps
My son is a FR (5'10" 160 lbs.) and starts in RF on varsity. It is a small school and there are actually 2 freshmen starting (C, RF), along with 2 SOPH's, one of whom started as a freshman (6'4" 1B/RHP-relief). In a larger school, NONE OF THEM WOULD START. The SOPH 1B would see time as a relief pitcher, the SOPH 2B as a Pinch Runner only. My son would see time as the occasional PH/PR, and the Catcher might get a couple of at bats on the season in run-a-ways. But they are all necessary in small school competition.

I know my son wouldn't start in many schools, but I am glad to see him play full time, as it will only make him better in his next three years. Last year, as an 8th grader, I took him to the 5A playoffs to see the pitching (D-1 signees facing off in one game) and to see if he would be impressed or in awe. His response? "This is no big deal, I SEE THIS EVERYDAY."

We have a SR and a JR, brothers, who have been starting since 8th grade. The SR is a JUCO/D-III prospect at best, the JR will be a lower D-1, D-2 prospect. Hard throwers whom my son "SEES EVERYDAY."

We are undefeated in conference play and have only 1 loss on the year. There are times such as this where Freshmen HAVE TO START. I am sure the premise of the question regards the larger, and traditionally more powerful schools, but seeing the whole picture means a "YES OR NO" response is inadequate.

Just MHO.
S2fmf- dont worry yourself over things like heigh and weight. My 12th grade season, we had not one but two freshman start on our varsity team which finished as one of the top teams in WV, my school has over 1500 people to, one of the biggest in the state.

But anyways the two freshman kinda looked like this, one was 6'0" and weighed about 150. The other was 5'8 and weighed 130. The 6'0' went
9-1 his freshman year and now in his senior year just signed to pitch for WVU.

The 5'8 one was kinda short and skinny, but possessed great athletic abilities and a cannon arm. Played right field and could throw dead liners in to the catcher from center field as a freshman, and also possessed very quick hands. Hit 2 homeruns that year. he is probably going to sign with Div 1 Marshall this year.

I tell you this because I dunno if your a freshman or not, but dont worry about your size or weight or anything, the previous 2 I just explained show you that stuff means nothing. If you are naturally talented, athletic, and work hard you will play no matter what. Its all about skills, not height and weight.

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