Frustration with Less Committed Players

Your son needs to understand that not all kids might have the same baseball work ethic as your son. No one knows why other kids don't seem to put in the time. It might be that they play other sports and take seasons off or maybe they have other interest that take up their time. Teach your son to be a good teammate and worry about what he can control.   

Tough spot to be in, but he may need to look at it from the other kids perspective.  Some of these kids may be 3 sport athletes which means they do not have an off season.  My son was one.  He would work his butt of as hard as he could all year long while attempting to work  his off season program for baseball as well.  When he got a chance to rest he would literally collapse on the couch.  

Im sure to the baseball only kids it looked like he was slacking off.  Especially when they would ask him to head to the batting cages or go throw on a Sunday prior to the season actually starting.  He would decline to head up there with them.  Thing is he had already had 3 days of basketball practice, 3 games, and spent all day Saturday before/after his game up at the school as the teams were required to be there for the other levels games. Somewhere in there he would head into the garage a couple of days a week to work on his swing.  This does not even include the hours of homework he had to complete during the week as well.  So when Sunday rolled around he actually had a few hours to rest.

 My basketball mentor a well respected college coach told me when i first started coaching "remember this, you will always care more than they do (players)". Wow was he right.  And I think when your son loves the game so much he is sort of in the same position as the coach.  For him it is a passion and he doesn't understand why the others don't feel that way. Now I think the role of high school sports has changed significantly.  It's not like travel ball. I think the key is to Play the high school ball for fun. Then once travel season comes the seriousness gets notched up a bit.  It is not easy being a three sport athlete. I know my sons basketball coaches have been frustrated because they see potential that is untapped by his 24/7 love of baseball. And it is true, he could be a lot better basketball player if he put time in outside of season. And in season practice is the only time he spends, nothing on his own. Life is about choices. The basketball only guys probably hate my son. I get that, no offense taken. But that's why he respectfully left his AAU basketball team this year. Wasn't right to be on such a high level team without a full commitment. It was time to move on. Love the program, coach and other parents so it was sad but necessary.  In high school however he will play all three.  High school sports are about fun and giving all you got IN SEASON. Travel ball/AAU is for getting serious about your future and your love of the game.  

It won't necessarily change w Varsity either. U always have diff levels of commitment/passion from players. He's working on getting better, and if he hopes to play at next level(which many HS players don't) then he's doing what he needs too. Maybe next yr he ll find that teammate who will be willing to work more and they can workout together. 

Hopefully he ll find a Summer team where the players have a diff attitude. Good luck

Sounds like your average HS baseball scenario.  That is the HS baseball experience I see my players experiencing.  On my JV roster of 18, maybe 3-4 play year 'round.  Maybe 2 go home on weekends and actually hit off tee.  As coach, I know who those kids are, it shows in their performance, and I appreciate their commitment.  But that appreciation and 50-cents won't buy your son anything. 

He has to buy into his own system.  Have faith that someday it will pay off.  Most important he has to understand that his teammates are HS baseball players, not to throw them under the bus with body language during games, etc.  Our program is full of kids who play baseball from Feb. 15th to May 5th, when the glove goes back in the closet for another nine months. And that's fine.  Again, it's HS ball.   Have fun and enjoy it.

Something to also consider... and I know this may be sacrilege to say around here - but sometimes HS baseball isn't the most important thing in certain player's lives.

Some of them aren't doing it because they have expectations of playing at a higher level.  Some of them are just doing it because they find playing fun - and aren't concerned if they "get better".

Then you have some that may care, but have so many other commitments that there isn't much free time for work outside of the normal season.

None of those things are wrong or bad - or even make the kids bad teammates.  It just means that they have different priorities.  Those same kids may look at your son and wonder why he thinks baseball is more important than spending time studying, or working, or whatever.

While it may be frustrating for the dedicated player at times, the perspective has to also be kept that you can only control what you can control. A lack of dedication used to bother me when I played as well.  In an ideal world, everyone would want to work as hard as your son. In reality though, that's not going to happen.  Not in baseball, not in school, not in the workforce.

As the kids say - you do you.  Don't worry about what others do or don't do.

some good advise here, my son is living it right now in HS on Varsity...he and several players are more committed then the coaches, and the coaches are committed then several of the SR class, who play regardless because coach loves SR's. I actually get why a coach loves SR's but if they aren't committed and they don't work....sigh.

So you have a core of JR's half playing half aren't, that are very hard workers many of them play year round etc and massive disconnect from the SR's leadership on the team which for the most part is poor!

Honestly it is a coaching problem but there is no solution, just fortunate mine is one of JR's playing or it would be a train wreck!

Old_School, going through somewhat of the same thing with the SR - JR thing.  The coach was very honest with the kids up front and told them he prefers the SRs.  As I told my son, you just need to wait your turn.  When you get do the best you can and control what you can control.  

Though I will say there is not a lot of disconnects or poor leadership on our team.  In fact I don't blame poor coaching either.  Just the way it is.  I guess it would be different if we were loosing.  The team has jelled real well and the parents all seem to be ok with everything.  Once in a while you will hear someone grumbling but not too often.

Which brings this around to the ops original post.  My advice to my son would be, control what you can control and put out your best effort when you are on the field.  After that its not worth stressing about what is going on with others.

agreed, this sounds like a 'normal' hs situation.  I think there's a lot of kids out there in the same situation as your son.  Heck we have two kids on our varsity team that are really good players, and have had some interest from some local d1 and d2 baseball programs that have both decided that they don't want to play ball in college.   It's tough for my son to understand. Tougher still for the dad of one of the kids- his other son is a starting outfielder for a big 10 team.  Kid's just not interested in playing college baseball.  Quite frankly, it's probably a mature decision on the kids part.  Although he has the talent, he just doesn't want that baseball life in college.  good to know that now. 

pabaseballdad posted:

agreed, this sounds like a 'normal' hs situation.  I think there's a lot of kids out there in the same situation as your son.  Heck we have two kids on our varsity team that are really good players, and have had some interest from some local d1 and d2 baseball programs that have both decided that they don't want to play ball in college.   It's tough for my son to understand. Tougher still for the dad of one of the kids- his other son is a starting outfielder for a big 10 team.  Kid's just not interested in playing college baseball.  Quite frankly, it's probably a mature decision on the kids part.  Although he has the talent, he just doesn't want that baseball life in college.  good to know that now. 

 

Actually my son is going through the college ball decision right now.  He is getting interest from a good amount of mid-D1 schools in our area.  He has even been told "you are a perfect fit for our program" by a few schools.  No offers yet, but Im suspecting as we move through the summer season there will be some. He has a very small list of schools he would consider playing for.  And even then he is not 100% certain he wants to play.  He has decided to go through this summer and see what happens.  If the right school makes an offer then he will probably take it, but if its not one of the schools on his list he will skip playing in college.

This is hard for some of the parents of other players on our HS team to understand.  Obviously I have had the opportunity to talk with my son and completely agree with his approach at this point. 

Sadly, a lot of the kids who have no aspirations to better themselves on the field also struggle in the classroom.  Usually goes hand in hand.

I'm going to assume your son also cares a lot about his grades too right?

Smart kid, and good for him.

joes87 posted:

pabaseballdad posted:

agreed, this sounds like a 'normal' hs situation.  I think there's a lot of kids out there in the same situation as your son.  Heck we have two kids on our varsity team that are really good players, and have had some interest from some local d1 and d2 baseball programs that have both decided that they don't want to play ball in college.   It's tough for my son to understand. Tougher still for the dad of one of the kids- his other son is a starting outfielder for a big 10 team.  Kid's just not interested in playing college baseball.  Quite frankly, it's probably a mature decision on the kids part.  Although he has the talent, he just doesn't want that baseball life in college.  good to know that now. 

 

Actually my son is going through the college ball decision right now.  He is getting interest from a good amount of mid-D1 schools in our area.  He has even been told "you are a perfect fit for our program" by a few schools.  No offers yet, but Im suspecting as we move through the summer season there will be some. He has a very small list of schools he would consider playing for.  And even then he is not 100% certain he wants to play.  He has decided to go through this summer and see what happens.  If the right school makes an offer then he will probably take it, but if its not one of the schools on his list he will skip playing in college.

This is hard for some of the parents of other players on our HS team to understand.  Obviously I have had the opportunity to talk with my son and completely agree with his approach at this point. 

Sounds just like my kid.  He was pretty sure for a while he didn't want to play in college.  Wasn't planning on playing summer ball, but got a chance to play for a scout's team at no cost - so decided to play.  Did well in the summer at tourneys.  Was playing well in the fall, but really didn't want to.  Decided not to play this spring.  He chose to do an early admit program next year that would have kept him from playing even if he wanted to.

I like this topic and if he is paying attention he is getting a huge life lesson here.  No matter what you do if it involves other people there are always ....ALWAYS...different agenda's/priorities.  Recognizing that and understanding what he can or should do about it are huge opportunities. 

For example - he can complain about it and thereby contribute nothing to solving the problem.  Always a popular choice - especially among teens but I have encountered an endless supply of experts in this skill over my lifetime.  There is never a shortage of whiners - especially if things aren't going well.

He can try to lead this group to make a bigger commitment or push for more accountability among the players.  Hard to do sometimes and often comes with reactions ranging from "brown-noser to fug -off".  If were successful in changing the culture to some degree - he might learn techniques of leadership that may serve him well later. 

A third path is to conclude that in fact this is a fixed situation that cannot be shifted significantly by any effort he makes.  In this scenario he is left to pursue individual excellence and a positive approach for others to follow.  He then will derive whatever benefits that generates for himself and potentially the team. 

The last option is simply to throw his hands up in the air and walk away. 

No matter what he should know this - he will always encounter people that will do just enough to get by or corner cutters.  Some are so talented they succeed despite not having to max out the commitment.  Over time though - those that have talent AND commitment will become the leaders.  Exceptions can be found but when talent is nearly equal the effort becomes the difference maker.

I too feel the pain of Golfman and other commenters. 2018 is one of only two sophomores full-time on varsity. On JV, he would be an everyday player. On Varsity, he is a filler in the outfield and only plays 1-2 games per week. Was scheduled to be a starting pitcher (I had reservations about that, didn't think he was ready for that role yet), but he hasn't gotten a lot of opportunity. Had a couple rough innings in pre-league play and was pulled without getting another shot. But, that's what happens at Varsity.

He has expressed interest to me and his dad that he would rather play JV so he could get his at bats and field time rather than only get a couple at bats here and there. He feels like he's not getting better sitting on the bench. Not sure if he has decided to talk to the coach yet or not. We will support him in whatever path he chooses. The down side is that dad is also a coach, not the head coach so he doesn't make final decisions, but it is really tricky to balance it all. He can't really advocate for his own kid without sounding like a dad. If son does go down to JV, dad missed an entire season of baseball because he stays with Varsity. Not an ideal situation and that thought breaks my heart.

2018 plays/works out almost year around. He also plays football, but baseball comes first. Other kids are the March-May type of players, even at the Varsity level, so I don't really think that mix changes. We only have 2 seniors and head coach is struggling with sitting one. It is the right move to take him out of the role (he's a catcher but can't hold a runner - teams can steal at will on us), but nobody wants to sit a senior. Our team is primarily made up of a really talented class of juniors. As a whole, it's paying off so far. We're having the best season since coach took over the program, but it's really hard when your kid works so hard and is the one on the bench. I just sent my son a message today letting him know that I am proud of him and to keep working. When the opportunity arises, seize it and make them notice. And to stay positive and be a good teammate. That is his role right now and he needs to embrace it, no matter how tough it is personally.

Back when I was coaching 11/12 basketball a parent reprimanded me for thinking everyone could be as good as my son. I told the parent I don't have any delusions anyone on the team could be as good as my son. But I expect them to play as hard. It wasn't until 13/14s when I had a team full of kids who were potential high school athletes that I got the passion and effort I was looking for.

In baseball in middle school and freshman year teammate's made fun of my son and two others I would run a practice for them after games. The three were in my travel team. They were committed to making varsity and going on to college ball.

Back in LL my son and I were often at the field when that evenings teams showed up for pregame. One coach accused me of abusing my son. I explained I never once have told him to be here. I actually had to sometimes tell him to rest on a given day.

In high school my son went to 5:45am off season baseball workouts because he had basketball after school. He skipped baseball on game days.

After being the freshman point guard my son was cut before soph season for never going to off season basketball workouts and skipping summer league. The coach also said it's impossible to focus on three varsity sports. That winter my son went 150mph into winter baseball workouts. The coach said if everyone was as focused and determined as my son the team would turn the corner and be winners. The upperclassmen made fun of my son for working so hard. But it was a challenge to them. They went from last to second. 

By junior year my son was the leader. No one dared mouth off to him. A bunch of JV players moving up to varsity followed his work ethic. They won back to back conference championships.

My son played for a top travel team I created before playing for a top showcase team. In middle school and early high school parents talked behind our backs. "He thinks his kid is too good to play Jr Legion/Legion with our boys. Years later I'm still criticized for ruining community baseball in our town. Kids with baseball talent now play travel.

But by junior year almost every parent came to me asking how their son can be recruited. From the junior year roster eleven kids had the opportunity to play college ball at some level. A few passed due to attending the Big Ten state university.

A lot of kids don't grow up wanting to be the best. It's because their parents didn't grow up wanting to be the best. I did. My son did. It didn't hit my daughter until high school. I knew my ex was the woman for me when she heaved her putter after missing a gimme. She was a top high school athlete too. She was recruited for D1 field hockey. 

Back when my son was in high school if you were told to walk up to our high school field and pick the top D1 prospect based on physical appearance. It would have been the 6'4" 220 kid. He never panned out as a pitcher. His father would ask me what his son could do to improve his velocity and pitching skills. The kid never did the work. He didn't have the passion. He made varsity senior year. He never got through an inning with his down the pipe, straight, 80mph fastball. But ask this kid to build a robot and he's up all night. It's where his passion was. He majored in robotical engineering in college.

Golfman25 posted:

So it's the kids second year of HS ball (not yet on Varsity, where he hopes things will change).  Unfortunately, he is very discouraged and frustrated.  He works his arse off -- winter training, extra hitting during the year, long toss, etc.  However, many of his teammates do not.  They skip as much as they can.  He invites them to work and gets the "I want to rest."  He comes ready to play on those cold northern days.  Teammates do not and end up shivering in the cold.  This all ends up showing on the field as they get mercy ruled by other teams.  

He needs advice to keep his head up and positive as he grinds thru the season.  What say you?   

My guess is that if he works that hard and he is still JV, then the V team is pretty good and likely has at least SOME more committed players, so when the work pays off and he gets there, he will have a few others like himself that he can share that common bond with.  That said, I totally agree with others that there will be all types on the average HS team.  He needs to find that balance... keep working his butt off toward his own goals and, also,continue to seek ways to lead and rally others to achieve better things.  Succeed or fail with the latter, he will come out better because of his efforts.

I have a junior who has that crazy-good work ethic... bugs me almost every weekend for extra reps, etc.  Has for three years.  He went through the process of dealing with frustration - all teammates were varying degrees of less committed.  He has done a remarkable job (often through painful trial and error) of learning how he could best influence different teammates with other interests.  It was particularly tough as a young underclassman on V.  Now he is among a very young V group and it is all paying off.  More and more of the younger players are feeding off his efforts and energy.  He has become a true leader and rallying point for the team.

It has worked out all the way around for him.  He is starting to get some looks, his team is better in their commitment and efforts and he is a stronger and more capable leader from it. 

Has he consulted with his coach on this?

playball2011 posted:

It won't necessarily change w Varsity either. U always have diff levels of commitment/passion from players. He's working on getting better, and if he hopes to play at next level(which many HS players don't) then he's doing what he needs too. Maybe next yr he ll find that teammate who will be willing to work more and they can workout together. 

Hopefully he ll find a Summer team where the players have a diff attitude. Good luck

He does have a pretty good summer team.  And that is part of the problem.  Many of his past/present summer teammates play at other schools.  He gets embarrassed by his HS team's performance when they play each other. 

#1 Assistant Coach posted:

Sounds like your average HS baseball scenario.  That is the HS baseball experience I see my players experiencing.  On my JV roster of 18, maybe 3-4 play year 'round.  Maybe 2 go home on weekends and actually hit off tee.  As coach, I know who those kids are, it shows in their performance, and I appreciate their commitment.  But that appreciation and 50-cents won't buy your son anything. 

He has to buy into his own system.  Have faith that someday it will pay off.  Most important he has to understand that his teammates are HS baseball players, not to throw them under the bus with body language during games, etc.  Our program is full of kids who play baseball from Feb. 15th to May 5th, when the glove goes back in the closet for another nine months. And that's fine.  Again, it's HS ball.   Have fun and enjoy it.

Yes thanks.  He definitely does need to work on the body language.  Have to remind him of that. 

#1 Assistant Coach posted:

Sadly, a lot of the kids who have no aspirations to better themselves on the field also struggle in the classroom.  Usually goes hand in hand.

I'm going to assume your son also cares a lot about his grades too right?

Smart kid, and good for him.

Not as much as his mother. 

My kids were multi sport athletes. My daughter played three. My son played two varsity sports after getting cut from basketball for the coach's view of lack of off season commitment.

They practiced or worked out for baseball/softball year round except for August. They worked on their dribbling and shooting for basketball in the driveway. They played as much pickup ball as they could on challenging playgrounds. They attended summer camps. My daughter attended volleyball camp. My son attended goalie camp. Could they have possibly been a little better in their other sports? Possibly. But they were as committed as anyone except the kids who were committed to getting in that sport as my kids were in baseball/softball. In a large classification high school if you're not 100% in you won't make varsity.

I guess you would have to say the kids who do what it takes to get to college ball are 150% in. My kids wanted to excel and win in their other sports just as much as baseball/softball. They just didn't have the time relative to the training they put in for their primary sport. It really ticked off the soccer coach my son was the only one on the team not playing elite summer soccer. He did attend two weeks of an elite goalie day camp. He was the only one on the team from the junior year roster who didn't go on to college soccer. 

...Have faith that someday it will pay off....(#1 assistant coach posted)

I've been stuck on this sentence for a day or so, wanting to post on it.  Something catches me each time.  It's the idea about pay off.  On the surface, it makes sense.  But I'm not sure if successful people (baseball or otherwise) really strive for "pay-off".  Some do, I'm sure.  Much more, I think it is just in the nature of successful people to strive.  In sports, it's strive to be the best in daily competition, whether practice, games, sprints, workouts.  It's about love of the game, love of competition, fear of failure.  I think the surface level "payoff" - be a starter, play the next level, get a scholarship, go pro just comes as part of the process of striving to be the best a person can.  I think real payoff is the competition itself.

It's in some people's nature.  

Go44dad posted:

...Have faith that someday it will pay off....(#1 assistant coach posted)

I've been stuck on this sentence for a day or so, wanting to post on it.  Something catches me each time.  It's the idea about pay off.  On the surface, it makes sense.  But I'm not sure if successful people (baseball or otherwise) really strive for "pay-off".  Some do, I'm sure.  Much more, I think it is just in the nature of successful people to strive.  In sports, it's strive to be the best in daily competition, whether practice, games, sprints, workouts.  It's about love of the game, love of competition, fear of failure.  I think the surface level "payoff" - be a starter, play the next level, get a scholarship, go pro just comes as part of the process of striving to be the best a person can.  I think real payoff is the competition itself.

It's in some people's nature.  

Absolutely.  They may be no "pay off" in terms of college ball.  But the real point I try to make is what ever you do, it is worth doing right.  So you have four years -- be the best HS baseball player you can in four years.  Then when you do your next thing, be the best at that - architect, lawyer, Dr., sales, whatever.