Funny freshman parents

doughnutman,

Great story to start the day. Funny post for sure, and it doesn't stop in high school in my experience. I saw the same scenario (boys vs men) in college and I would expect it continues on into the pros.

As a coach I might have a different perspective but it is fun to sit and listen to freshman parents and their friends . I've always understood that coaches like to see the new players in different situations and how they react . Parents will always think their kids are better but over time they will figure it out .

That's typical....happens in tryouts all the time too. Perspective is a word that escapes a lot of people....but it makes a big difference.

What's even more entertaining to listen to is when the talented freshman actually takes the Junior/Senior's position. Always an interesting story as to why junior got be out by a lower classman. It's interesting to watch and listen to the parental panic. Very ackward situation with those parents.

Might not be the most appropriate comment for me to make, but sometimes I find the "freshman" posters (becoming more like 5th/6th grade parent posters) on here are kind of like the freshmen parents you refer to at practice.

I mean, seriously...'my 10-year old son is the most intelligent, focused and hard working 10-year old on the planet. He works out 7x24 to be the college all American we know he will become!' type comments are getting more common on here all of the time.

Most of 'em aren't around with their certain 'dream story played out as I planned' 4-5 years later either.

If you really want to crack up, go to a LL game.

I was at an 18U game this fall, and a father said something to his son in the dugout. The son wasn't starting, and the father came up and asked Jr if he wanted to leave (I guess because he wasn't starting). The father walked away and the coach told Jr to control his dad or else.

I guess not all of us get better over time.

quote:

Originally posted by justbaseball:
I mean, seriously...'my 10-year old son is the most intelligent, focused and hard working 10-year old on the planet. He works out 7x24 to be the college all American we know he will become!' type comments are getting more common on here all of the time.

My favorite is the parent of the preteen stud who claims their kid has perfect mechanics. Then I ask why MLB teams have pitching and hitting coaches. It leaves them dumbfounded.

Normally I stay away from tryouts. When my daughter was in high school, due to poor drainage at the high school facility trouts were being held on the middle school field across the street. The field is visible from the street. Driving by I saw a couple of parents I hadn't seen since travel fall ball and stopped.

One mother was telling us what a studdette her freshman daughter has been. She always made LL softball all-stars. As tryouts ramped up she was stunned. She asked where are the talented girls came from. She didn't know them from LL. I told her they all play 18U Gold ASA softball. She asked if they were all seniors. I told her only one. But they all play 18U.**

I don't know if I burst her bubble on her daughter starting on varsity as a freshman or her daughter not even making the JV team was the burst.

** It's unusual but all nine starters from my daughter's junior and senior year played college softball at some level.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM: My favorite is the parent of the preteen stud who claims their kid has perfect mechanics. Then I ask why MLB teams have pitching and hitting coaches. It leaves them dumbfounded.

I attended a pro-scout lecture given to the boys and parents from a MiLB traveling hitting instructor and pitching instructor a few years back.

The discussion from the hitting instructor went something like, "The first thing we teach them is how to hold the bat correctly and take a balanced stance." A dad asked a question about this being a little rudamentary and the response was priceless (paraphrasing from memory), "Well, we have to start with the basics to completely undo all the **** those bad HS coaches and hitting instructors taught them. I can't figure out why you guys pay all that money and they get all the way to me without knowing how to hold the friggen bat. Don't you guys have LL anymore?". The rest of the lecture could've been an instructional video on hitting showed to any level (T-Ball through pro). I wish I'd taped it.

The pitching guy was almost as good. "We start by teaching them how to throw the four pitch fastball to location before we introduce any secondary pitches." Dad asks how long that takes, Answer (again paraphrasing), "Sometimes a couple of months, sometimes the first year, a lot of times they get cut before figuring it out." Then to the boys, "If you can't throw a four seam fastball to a spot, it doesn't matter how many pitches you have because you're unlikely to be able to throw any those to a spot either and the off speed will really hurt you when they get hit. If you can hit your spot with a 4 seam, you only need two other decent pitches and I can teach you those." Back to the dads, "We call that pitching. It's different from throwing."

Priceless...

No shortage of rose colored glasses for us parents.

I was a freshman parent once as well. My son was lucky enough to make the varsity team as a LHP, PO.

He learned a lot from a very senior team, watching them go through the MLB follow, college scouting experience, JC recruiting process, etc. It was a great experience.

Hopefully all the freshman parents reading this will take it for what it is... HS baseball isn't the greatest thing, it's not the worst thing, it's just the next thing. If you're son is lucky enough to make JV or varsity, use it as a learning experience as you've got a few more years to figure the whole thing out and make your place.

Here's another anecdote (as the Cardinals tie game 6)
My son's freshman year we where lucky enough to score tickets to the Red Sox vs. D-backs in AZ. We got there early to watch BP. Dice K was taking BP for the Red Sox, a pitcher who was pitching a couple of nights later in an interleague game.

He drove a ball on a line out to left, a ball on a line out to center and then a ball on a line out to right. Next pitch back to left, then center, then right. I turned to my son who was complaining about never getting to hit despite dropping bombs in BP and said, "He looks absolutely stupid hitting in games, just like the pitcher he is, but he looks pretty good in BP, huh?" Jr. didn't say anything as his mouth was open and eyes were wide in both awe and fear, but he was starting to understand the big picture...
(I post as Texas goes ahead in the 10th)

jmoff, great post.

quote:

Originally posted by BK_Razorback:
What's even more entertaining to listen to is when the talented freshman actually takes the Junior/Senior's position. Always an interesting story as to why junior got be out by a lower classman. It's interesting to watch and listen to the parental panic. Very ackward situation with those parents.

2014 went thru that last year along with 2 other 2014 and 2 2013. 6 seniors, only one started/ played sig time (he was HS league player of year), others had not started as juniors and expected to slide in to starting roles as seniors. those 5 spots were taken by the 2014 and 2013, VERY angry parents. constantly harping about coach being "fair" etc. 4 of 5 of senior players angry as well. my 2014 was really upset at first, because he was just there to play ball to best of ability and help team and didn't understand the anger. Had to explain the "entitlment" those players felt. stands were very quiet or hostile (whenever a younger kids parents had had enough of the criticism of thier kid). Made for a long HS year

My son is a FR. Maybe my take is a bit different. He won a starting role on the JV as an 8th grader. He worked his butt off for it. I also think it was a big reason he played hurt most of the season and didn't tell anyone until the season was pretty much over. (I've addressed that with him). There was some flack over him playing above some older kids. For the most part the older starters stuck by him, and I'm grateful for that.

Well the 5'6 or so 8th grader is now a 6' 9th grader. Do I think he'll make Varsity? It's up to him and the Coach in my opinion. If he puts the work in (and he has been) and the Coach feels he can contribute, he'll make it. If not, he won't. Not my battle.

It'll be fun either way. Nothing like making parents look at you funny when you make fun of your kid when he strikes out or makes a mistake. My kid knows I'm joking...several of the Dads know I'm joking..the other parents not so much.

Or maybe I can tell them what I told a guy the other day. "You're kid is just a Freshman???"

"yeah. Well technically he's supposed to be in 12th grade, but he's been held back a few times. He's not the brightest bulb in the drawer."



You should have seen the look on that guy's face.

It's the little things in life.

As as sophomore my son played behind a freshman for a good part of the season. Then he decided to out work the freshman and win the starting role.

To my knowledge, never did my son display any anger about playing behind someone younger, nor did he say anything at all. Frankly, it was the best thing (in baseball) to ever happen to him. It lit a fire, and he won the starting role before the end of the season.

And we weren't angry either. I didn't think the other kid was better, but I felt my son left too much doubt about whether he should start over the freshman. My son should have come into the season with such intensity and so well prepared that the coach wouldn't consider starting anyone else.

Back on topic, I believe every year I get a little less obnoxious. At least that's my goal.

For all the parents whose sons were so good they made JV or V in HS (thus not playing on the freshman team), your sons WILL be freshman in college.
Your sons will be the "little" guys. Your pitcher will get hit, your hitter will strike out.

Just wait, it's an eye opener. And I can guarantee that you will be humbled by the experience.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
For all the parents whose sons were so good they made JV or V in HS (thus not playing on the freshman team), your sons WILL be freshman in college.
Your sons will be the "little" guys. Your pitcher will get hit, your hitter will strike out.

Just wait, it's an eye opener. And I can guarantee that you will be humbled by the experience.

That’s certainly true for most, but not every freshman in college is “humbled”. A lot depends on if they allow a ten dollar ego overload 50 cent skills. It doesn’t matter what the level, players who play within themselves and keep their mouths shut, will generally succeed. Once they make the team, they’ve already proven they have the talent, so all that’s left is to keep growing in body, mind, and skills, and let things play out as they will.

My son played on the freshman team along with 30, 35 others. No cuts. Some kids wore different jerseys. Some didn't have their own mitt. The coach picked the line up and batting order out of his hat. Scores could be 22-20, or 22-0 either way. It was a fun year, for parents as well as players.

quote:

Originally posted by Stats4Gnats:

That’s certainly true for most, but not every freshman in college is “humbled”.

If you read closely I wasn't talking about the player, this topic was about the parents.

One of my nephews told me that he had played some on varsity as a freshman. He also told me that it didn't mean much because they didn't have that good of a team. I figure the real answer is somewhere in between.

If a kid starts as a HS freshman on a nationally ranked team then he's probably something special. If a kid starts as a HS freshman at a random school it may or may not mean a thing. I've seen HS varsity squads that couldn't have beaten some freshman teams at strong schools. You'll also see kids who play on freshman teams at a given school who far surpass some of the kids who may even start on varsity as a freshman at that school. One of the schools in our league had 5 pitchers on their varsity staff one season all of whom were drafted eventually with a couple of them being 2nd rounders and none of them being late rounders. I believe another pitcher who ended up being a later round pick out of HS played freshman ball for them that season. Something tells me he was a bit better that season than a lot of freshmen who made varsity elsewhere.

Our school had a kid who signed for 7 figures who didn't make varsity until he was a senior.

Wherever one may be, starting on varsity or even making the varsity as a freshman is an accomplishment to be proud of but generally speaking it isn't something to be used as a benchmark for comparison to players at other schools.

BTW, TPM is right the freshman year of college is tough for many, many players and a fair percentage of them, even some with great attitudes, just don't make it.

quote:

Wherever one may be, starting on varsity or even making the varsity as a freshman is an accomplishment to be proud of but generally speaking it isn't something to be used as a benchmark for comparison to players at other schools.

Absolutely!

I have 2 sons who did or will play in the Pac-10/12. Two different high schools...one a weak program...the other a nationally ranked program. Neither son played on varsity as a freshman. In the end, it was completely irrelevant.

quote:

I've seen HS varsity squads that couldn't have beaten some freshman teams at strong schools. You'll also see kids who play on freshman teams at a given school who far surpass some of the kids who may even start on varsity as a freshman at that school. One of the schools in our league had 5 pitchers on their varsity staff one season all of whom were drafted eventually with a couple of them being 2nd rounders and none of them being late rounders. I believe another pitcher who ended up being a later round pick out of HS played freshman ball for them that season. Something tells me he was a bit better that season than a lot of freshmen who made varsity elsewhere

agree totally, there is a school not to far from us (40 miles), that do not promote freshman on that team (last one was ken griffey jr), that team could beat MOST hs prgrams in our area.

my 2014 hs is a good school, lots of kids going on to play in college, but no where near the one above.

Here's a good one, watching two 5 inning scrimmages between two schools. Game one mainly varsity starters all the way through. Pitchers throwing mid upper 80's. Game two its mainly JV pitchers mid to upper 70's a few around 80-82. A JV parent after his son hit a pitch down the RF line, cheers as the ball goes into the corner, ringing his cow bell.

I thought I was at a 12U tournament game, but this was fall ball! Then out of his mouth I hear him say "He"ll make varsity yet."

Dad didn't even notice that his kid was late and lucky he even made contact. It was funny to see how the dad reacted. I just hope I never acted like that.

I guess I am an exception to the rule here.

I have a Freshman son and I am actually hoping he doesn't make Varsity this spring. The coach is riding him in the offseason workout phase specifically telling him he has a legitimate shot to make the V team. He still has a way to go as far as hitting goes (IMHO) but he impressed every coach with his fielding ability and range apparently. IN fall ball he did do pretty well so I understand the interest but he is a very young 14 year old and he still has a ways to go. I mean, it is fall ball.

It's not that I don't have pride that he is doing well, I am very proud but I got a chance to see him actually play against some of these 16-18 year olds and he just doesn't look like he is ready for that level of play yet. I'm afraid he will not get much chance to play at the Varsity level. He of course is going into all of this with a high level of gusto.

I have seen parents that think their kids are all that.

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
If a kid starts as a HS freshman at a random school it may or may not mean a thing.

That's very true. There are so many factors that come into play. I know a kid I coached (when my son was still a baby) who had to move his FR year of high school. He was already working out with the V team at this original high school.

The new school had a reputation of being a "baseball school". The kid didn't make the V as a FR, and apparently didn't get hardly any playing time on JV.

That Summer after his FR year, he made a local older travel team after an independent tryout. Out of the more than a few players from his Varsity team that tried out, only one of them made the team along with the kid. This kid, who apparently wasn't good enough to play Varsity (or even get playing time on JV) was in the starting pitching rotation, and started in the OF and hit in the middle of the lineup. The kid who made the team from his HS (that had been a starter on V) had playing time as well.

That Fall, when the V coach started getting his prior year group together for off season workouts, the hitting coach from this travel team was tasked with working with his players. When he asked about the kid, and why he wasn't there, the V coach said he didn't think he was ready to play at the V level.

When the hitting coach told the V coach about the kid winning a starting position on the mound and in the field, the V coach made the comment about "Travel Ball" vs "Varsity level high school baseball".

The kicker in all this? That Winter, the kid's parents finally sold the house they had in the previous town they moved from. So they moved out of the rental house they were in and ended up buying a house in the District of the rival HS. They didn't realize this until after they had all decided on this house. Apparently it was on of those deals where the dividing line for the HS was like a street away or something. Before they made the offer they talked with their son, since they had already moved and wanted to make sure he was good with changing schools. He was fine with it.

He went out and made the Varsity as a starting pitcher and a position player with the rival HS. They eliminated the other HS in their District tournament. Guess who pitched a complete game shutout against his former team?

Sometimes things work out...sometimes they don't.

Perception is reality....whether it's true or not.

Of all the creatures inhabiting the baseball universe the obnoxious parent is the worst. Be as proud as you want to be, watch the game and stop talking!

My son was very good coming thru the ranks heading for high school. I know our HS head coach very well, I knew he wasn't going to placed on V team. All the other parents also knew of the relationship I had with coach and were upset that Jr had a shoe in for V and they thought their son was better.

After try-outs, coach calls Jr into office, little background on coach that all parents should have known, he been coaching for almost 40 years, only five freshman have ever made V, two were drafted after senior year. So coach tells Jr goods things, his plan was to play all freshman and JV games to prepare him for V the next year. I thought it was a great plan.

Jr bought into it, he was going to get a lot of games, other parents mad theirs didn't get the option.

Coach knows best, it worked out great, son know freshman on college at a very good D2 school and got baseball money.

Sometimes parents need to stay out of, and not worry about other kids but their own.

Parents in town now think I know someone at the college and got Jr in because he really isn't that good.

Luv baseball - i think you have identified the makings of another thread!!!

Our freshman son made the varsity team last year. He knew going in he would be the first one substituted for in games, wouldn't get a lot of playing time, etc. Son still took the challenge, played varsity and ended up pitching in a couple of really good games. The highlight for him was pitching against his former school and overhearing how they were going to "tee off the freshman". Son handed them a humbling loss and in the end, friendships and respect were renewed.

There were those who complained that it should have been their kid who made varsity instead of our son and at times it was frustrating to hear it all from some of them but the truth of it is that the coach really did pick the best kids- there were no favors.

Parenst are going to be bad no matter what grade their kid is in. Be it freshman or senior, parents for the most part don't change.

ctandc, thanks for relating that story, at a true large class HS baseball power, I can understand the kid not seeing the mound on V, or in some really deep programs even JV. To discount his performance on strong older summer team does not bode well. Glad the kid found his niche.

Going through a strong large HS program with now my 2nd freshman. As parents, just got to stay humble, his time will come.

quote:

Originally posted by twotex:
Back on topic, I believe every year I get a little less obnoxious. At least that's my goal.

Me, too. And at my current rate of getting less obnoxious every year, I should be fit for polite society by the time I turn 120 years old.

Here's a little different perspective from having kids of both genders playing several travel sports when they were younger. Per my experience the most obnoxious 14U parents in order:

1) girl's s0ccer
2) girl's softball
3) boy's s0ccer
4) boys basketball
5) girl's basketball
6) PW football
7) boy's baseball

I've been told youth hockey would be high on the list. When I saw how well my son could skate by the time he was four I kept shoving a basketball in his hand. No 5am practices for this dad!

A friend said the reason girl's softball parents are obnoxious is often it's dads ticked off they didn't have a boy to play baseball. The most obnoxious coaches were the dads without boys.

S0ccer parents as a whole are just obnoxious. Because the average person doesn't know the fundmentals and rules of the game, the parents think they know something that can't be questioned. I used to watch my son play travel s0ccer with a dad who played World Cup S0ccer. He said most of the s0ccer parents don't know what they're talking about.

A lot of the parents thought their kids were a lock for college scholarships. Many of the kids never made or had an impact on varsity rosters.

The most ignorant thing I ever heard was being told when my son was seven, "You won't have to pay for college with that kid's athletic ability." The observation was made from seeing him play eight on eight s0ccer, basketball on an eight foot basket and machine pitch baseball.

My son did get a 50% ride for what's between his ears. He had to walk on for baseball.

My neice played DIII softball. My mother went to several of her games, in high school then a few in college. Because we live farther away, my mom had not seen her grandson play since his first year on the big diamond.

Recently my mom attended a few of my son's 18U baseball games. She could not believe the difference between softball and baseball parents.

I'm sure there are plenty of laid back softball parents, just providing a data point.

Hey all - new user here. I am replying because I *AM* a freshman parent! I am writing because I caught myself pulling a minor version of the **** being called out in this thread.

Background: My son is a 2015 at a local HS here in Seattle. He has had good success play local select ball at 13U and 14U, including on teams that have won 10-12 tournaments in the last two years (including the TC Arizona Spring Championships, a 2nd place finish in SoCal to then top-ranked Lamorinda, who we beat in pool play before losing in the final, and fair finishes in the Elite32, Triple Crown WS, Vegas, and several more regional kinds of tourneys). He has generally been the top player, or one of the top 2-3 players, on most of the select and travel teams he has played on. He was invited to and did well at the Baseball NW's Northwest Championships showcase, where he ended up hitting in the 3-hole and threw a 2-hit complete game shutout against an Oregon team, leading him to be invited to the USA Baseball National Team Identification Series in Cary, NC in September.

I say all this not to brag (boy has a long ways to go) but to set up my story, and how I came to HSBBweb. Last first: After NTIS, we started getting sniffs and more from recruting services. Being the move-slow, cautious learner type, I set out to learn more about the recruiting process and found this site and the absolute WEALTH of information it offers (let's just say I haven't called those recruiting services back). Now the story:

Jr is heading on to a team with a head coach heading into his third full year (I served on his staff last year at a lower level, not directly under him). The team is very young, but last year with a Sophomore and Junior-heavy varsity team, they made the 4A conference playoffs. Not a great team, but a team on the rise. The Junior Class is 20-deep, with some decent talent at the top, but mostly average players, and probably 6-8 who on current talent alone should probably not be varsity players ever.

At several meetings I have attended as a member of the staff, I have heard as a mantra how difficult it will be for ANY freshman to overcome the roadblock this Junior class represents. I buy in. I tell my kid statistics about how many freshmen make varsity rosters in our conference (less than 5%, conference-wide), try to make him understand that the most important thing at his age is playing/development time, and that the quickest way to the next level is to dominate the level just below the level you want to be at. All good, but privately, a part of me "KNOWS" that my kid has more talent than all but a handful of players on the team (and for sure that Junior class). Throws harder (topped out at 85 in NC; just turned 15) and with as much or better command than any pitcher they had last year, with the exception of a now graduated senior, and has as much or more power than all but a couple kids. Younger, a tad smaller (frankly, not much), and more raw? Sure, but more talent and more experience with more success at higher (not necessarily age-related) levels of baseball than all but a couple of them. Not going to be intimidated by the move to HS baseball.

Anyway, after hearing this "mantra" for the Nth time, I privately push back a little with the coach, who thankfully is a friend of mine. I tell him that as much as I value loyalty, work ethic, effort, and attitude, in the end the biggest factor that should go into team composition and playing time decisions is TALENT. [And no, I am not saying that those other things should be ignored, or that it might not be the right decision to pass on a talented player who possesses few of those intangible qualities. More along the lines of the "best advice" I read the other day - "Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard, but when talent works hard, it beats everything."] I say that I am worried that perhaps intangibles are being overvalued, and I am concerned about what kind of opportunity Jr will get to prove he belongs over an older player.

About an hour later, I read this thread. I started thinking about how I might be reacting from the "proud Dad" part of my mind rather than the "rational baseball guy" part (in reality, probably a bit of both), and how I really lack the perspective and experience with Jr at this level to be saying ANY of this.

So today, I called Coach and apologized for stepping over the line. Thank you HSBBweb, for being a reality check.

I will privately worry about such things until they do or do not come to pass, but thanks to this thread, I have already had a really good chat with the Coach about all of it, and I know it will all be good either way.

Welcome to the HSBBW.

Keep this in mind, the cream (usually) rises to the top, but there is (usually) hard work that is needed to make it rise.

Don't worry about it, everything has a way of working itself out, so relax and enjoy!

TPM wrote:

quote:

Keep this in mind, the cream (usually) rises to the top, but there is (usually) hard work that is needed to make it rise.

Thanks, TPM.

That's what I believe, too, and the first several times I heard this "mantra" I tried not to offer any response other than the occasional understated "if he hits and throws like he has to this point, he's going to make you make a difficult decision then." But the more I heard it repeated, the more I thought it was directed TO my son, from people who really haven't seen him play that much, that we might be on the wrong side of "usually" here, and I felt the need to stick up for the "talent" side of the ledger - whether that be my son or someone else's.

The problem is, there is no way I can say that without it sounding like it is about my son - and to be perfectly honest, it mostly is. And I found myself thinking about what I've always told my son: "don't tell me what you can do, show me."

Ultimately, whether I am right about my concerns or my son's talents or not, this comes off as coming from a lack of perspective and experience...and therefore was best left unsaid.

Like you said - it will all work itself out! Just wanted to 'fess up to a moment that fits perfectly within the topic of this thread, from a guy going through it RIGHT NOW.

ctandc: Love it!

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
Here's a little different perspective from having kids of both genders playing several travel sports when they were younger. Per my experience the most obnoxious 14U parents in order:

1) girl's s0ccer
2) girl's softball
3) boy's s0ccer
4) boys basketball
5) girl's basketball
6) PW football
7) boy's baseball

That goes along with what I've seen and heard. Friend of mine has 3 girls. Mom was a D1 Volleyball player on the West Coast and is probably close to 6' tall. My friend is a bit taller, and was a heck on an athlete. So the genes are there.

Anyway, two girls in HS, one close to HS age. Not sure of how it splits, but I know between the three, they deal with travel volleyball, softball, basketball and s****r.

He came to a tournament one day my travel team was playing in. We went and had a beer and talked afterwards.

He says s****r parents scare him. He didn't look like he was joking.

For him and his wife, he said the worst part of softball was all the chatter when they were young. He used to bring earphones to the games.

BUT he did say the most hardcore may be the travel volleyball crowd. He said most of the kids don't seem to play any other sport, and when you mention other sports to them they get this odd look on their face. And when he told me how much travel volleyball would cost...I was blown away. Of course since his wife helps run the program it's not so bad.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
Don't worry about it, everything has a way of working itself out, so relax and enjoy!

This is the best one line advice I've ever heard.

Son's high school experience was varied, to say the least. No matter what though, it all worked out. I think we all learned a lesson. For parents, the biggest lesson is griping never advances your player. Even if complaints are justified, alligator lips boys and girls.