Game Philosophy

Good question.  No set answer in my mind.  I've seen games where its clear that you take your foot off in the 3rd or 4th inning.  And I can think of a game where a team had a 8-0, then 10-0...then 12-0 lead in the 4th inning or so but they (rightly IMO) kept their foot on the gas as the other team was capable of getting back in the game.

 

Seems to me its based on what you know about the opponent and the situation and 'feel' of the game.

Based on other teams ability to come back, but in general 10 runs so the game can end in 5.

Yeah, always lots of variables, particularly early in the season, but the opposition is a big factor as is the quality and depth of your pitching staff.  In some cases, if we get up 4 or 5 early, we know we can stop stealing and manufacturing but may or may not want to continue depending on what needs worked on.  Last week, we were up 7-1 late, R1 w/ no out and I felt I still needed to play small ball because I knew HC was planning on bringing in a struggling P to try to close so he could get some confidence back.  I knew there would be some raised eyebrows - didn't care.  Sure enough, we needed the cushion.

 

That said, at about an 8-10 run lead mid game or later, we will usually instruct station-to-station, no bunt, no steal home on PB.  Of course, we would never instruct to not hit.  If an opposing P is struggling finding the zone at that point, we'll also expand our zone and swing more. 

This is just me and I don't get agreement with my fellow coaches - if I'm on the wrong side, I never want the opponent to let off the gas in any way. 

I also don't put any thought into what may be behind the decisions of the opposition in those circumstances.

Good philosophical topic - I've been on the wrong end of run ups and found myself snarling at the opposite coach for running it up.  At the same time, I've seen teams make great comebacks.

 

Ten run rule is the safety valve in place for such situations so the response would depend in part as to whether the rule is in effect.

 

Having said that, consider too that although you send a good social message of mercy in holding your players back, you may also be hurting your team for the next game by taking the edge off of endorsement of proper fundamentals and hitting streaks.

 

 

Thanks guys.   I too am a 10 run area time to back off kind of guy.  maybe earlier if it quite obvious that the other team is no threat. 

Here is what happened the other night:Varsity game; we are home team and we just came off an inning where we opened up with back to back dbl's and score a couple of runs,5th or 6th inning I think,(can't remember, to busy slingers burgers in the concession stand..lol) but we have the potential to go on a run at any time, IMO.  Our HC puts in a sophore, soft thrower, but throws strikes, the other team is hitting the ball, we make some errors and now they are 6 runs up.  Next inning the other team gets a guy on and he steals, next guy bunts.  Game goes on we lose by 6.  After the game my son tells me the Asst Coach was riding the other teams coach pretty bad about the bunt and the steal,  and was shouting at him about that and the fact that we have a sophomore on the mound. 

 

So I engage my kid in a discussion on game philosophy.  naturally he takes his coaches side.  But, IMO, the opposing caoch did nothing wrong, especially with only a 6 run lead.  And it it definitely not the opposing coaches fault that we put a soft throwing sophomore on the mound (which when we did that gave me the impression that we were not really trying to go after a win).  I tried to explain to my son that it is still baseball and anything can happen, maybe it would have been a little different if they were home team, but not in my book.  Hard to explain to a  teenager on that fine line of coaching, but thought it was a great learnig moment to try and get him to think of all aspects of the game, not just his teams side, and it didn't help when the coach acts a little bush league-ish

High school ball can be so erratic you go full speed and get the knockout. I've seen teams one run from getting mercied come back and win or at least get back in the game and have a chance to win. I wouldn't squeeze up 8-0.

While I understand that the original question was about HS games, I've seen some awful things happen in youth baseball.  While my son was at Cooperstown I saw at least three games that had final scores of: 29-0, 30-0 and 34-0.  The 34-0 score was posted by the eventual champion.

 

While I agree that you should have the "I'm going to step on your neck mentality", I think games like the above reach a point of absurdity.  There has to be a point where you respect the game and your opponent too much to do that to them.  

 

Fortunately, I haven't seen any HS games reach that level around here.

Yes, it can be tough to explain some of those things to young players.  They want to win today.  It's hard for them to understand that coaches may have to make decisions that may cost them a game or two early on but will help the team be stronger later in the season when the wins may matter more.  There will probably come a time when putting in that soft throwing lefty is the perfect move after an opponent starts getting dialed on your starting hard throwing righty.

 

No comment on the asst coach's reaction other than maybe he should leave any such dialog up to HC

lefthookdad- Good topic. The only thing I wholeheartedly disagree with your assistant coach about is his argument that there is a sophomore on the mound. That has absolutely nothing to do with the situation at hand. An opposing coach shouldn't alter his game plan based on your pitcher's age. If the kid wasn't ready for the situation, he shouldn't have been on the mound.

 

In terms of the "unwritten rule", I feel it is very case specific. And, as RJM noted, it very much varies by level and circumstance within the game.

This is one thing I actually like about reentry rules. It allows you to get playing time for players and still have the opportunity to bring the starters back in if needed.

 

In the finals of the WWBA National Championship a few years ago, one team had a  11-0 lead. They lost the game 12-11!  This was two of the very best teams in the nation, playing for National Championship Rings.

 

My philosophy was to hold back the running and no bunting once a lead felt secure. Bring in the reserves and tell them to go all out.

 

On the other end... Not once did it ever bother me if the opposition was pouring it on. I much prefered that over turning the game into a farce by not trying.  When your opponents aren't even trying, that is the ultimate disrespect for both the opponents and the game itself.

 

I haven't been in that situation much, but I will always remember a team we should have beat putting a 22-0 pasting on our college team. Ended up with the resrves on both teams playing the game after a few innings.  We didn't take it personal, it just got out of hand. They (the opponents) did it in a very "professional" manner! And the next game we started a 20+ game winning streak. That beat down we got turned out to the best thing that happened to us that year.

 

Truth is... Why worry about how bad the score looks? I would rather have someone pour it on than turn it into something other than a baseball game. Of course, it's a different story if someone is up by 15 or 20 and still bunting and stealing bases at will.Guess I just hate to see someone standing on 3B when they should have crossed the plate without a play being made on them. To me, that is disrespectful IMO! And if the reserves are in the game, they deserve the chance to play the game the right way.

 

 

When I coached a 13u fall team I recruited some pretty good players and won the city championship but maybe I did too good of a job.  Some of the scores got ugly.  One team walked off the field in the second inning when we were up 20-0.  Another team we beat 35-0 was coached by a well-respected D1 coach (his son was on his team) but he shook my hand after the game and complimented me on putting together such a fine team.  I didn't mean to disrespect anyone but my attitude is it's not my fault I'm on the winning end.

Love this topic. My issue, and I know why they do it, but still ... is when the ump expands the strike zone too much. That has always seemed disrespectful to the game to me. A little? Fine. Too much? Not good.

 

But to stick to the OP's question, I say pound until the other team cries uncle ... which is often obvious -- especially in HS.

 

Is the team simply over matched? Or is it a situation where you just got out to a big but the opponent is capable of making a run at you? I've seen 10 run leads evaporate. I always simply coached the game and told my players to just play the game regardless of the score. If it was clear to me the opponent was over matched I simply cleared the bench. Gave other guys innings on the hill. Stopped stealing and bunting. Other than that just play the game.

If your not sure its in hand then simply play. If you are then make the moves. But there is no set answer because some teams are simply incapable and some are.

This can be a tough situation.  I have certainly been on the other side of it.  First of all be respectful - do not rub it in the other teams eyes.  A good time to get substitutes in for playing time.  Use common sense and minimize any additional damage.  At the end of the game pack up and leave.  Do not brag about a blow out win as it well come back to you eventually.

Step off gas? That mostly depends on the opponents capablility of coming back and/or how thin my pitching situation is.

Up 6 and they stole and bunted? In HS, you've got to work on some of this stuff during games so you can be effective in the playoffs.  I have no problem with the other coach when we get pummeled, we have our days too... it's just baseball. If they get real mouthy about it I would not like it but I wouldn't complain at the field... my dog might have to listen to me whine about it, but others don't need to hear my problems.

"On the other end... Not once did it ever bother me if the opposition was pouring it on. I much prefered that over turning the game into a farce by not trying.  When your opponents aren't even trying, that is the ultimate disrespect for both the opponents and the game itself."

 

I concur wtih PG on this issue.  I wouldn't want the other kids to stop playing or trying.  I would not be mad if the other kids are simply playing, they deserve to be allowed to do that.  I have seen a few little league games where the "mockery" level was just absurd, swinging at pitches early or really late, acting like the trip and fall etc........disgusting and a disgrace to the game, let the kids play.  I have also been on the receiving end, first game of JR's a few weeks ago, took a thumping, I saw what the other coach was doing, while his intention was well being, the way the other kids starting acting upset me, lobbying the ball in as a pitcher, fake swings.  I told a few of them to "please swing and try to hit like normal, get your moneys worth out of the bat, don't stop just becasue you are winning big"...it was when they stole second up 20 and and then on a past ball...other than that no big deal, just part of the game.

We do not have a ten run rule.  I generally use Runs vs. Outs left.  If we have more runs than the out that are left on the board then I let off the gas.  Someone proposed this to me and I thought at first it was crazy.  This is what he said and I found this to be true.  If you use Run vs. Outs left you will usually find a number that either is in an area where you do not find comfortable to Hit & Run/Steal but you usually will be around a number where you feel it is ok to send a runner on a base hit or advance on a pass ball.  I have always found this to be accurate.