game play evaluation vs. showcase/camp evaluation

Was just wondering was this a Major League scout?

I believe you should carefully consider what the scout told you, yet temper it against other evaluations. And this will probably sound obvious, but if your son is a D2 or D3 player at this time instead of a D1 player...that is still an awfully great and cool thing. Just ask infielddad and a few others on here.

Listen to any and all evaluations and focus your efforts based on the emerging consensus of those evaluations.

To answer TigerPaw Mom: the scout is a major league scout who also runs a baseball academy. So I think his opinion is pretty significant. And this is not meant to diminish or dismiss D2 schools or players. We were simply on a different page thinking D1. The scouts comments got us looking at D2s a bit more carefully.

Thanks for the tip, justbaseball. I looked back over some of infielddad's posts over the years and found a couple that were really helpful and inspiring about his son's experiences in college and now in his professional career.

I think JJB has given great advice. You have asked this scout to evaluate your son. I believe seeing someone in a game is very important, but you asked the scout to evaluate your sons skills, and seems to have given you an assesment you do or his HS coach do not agree with. If your son's HS coach is more familiar with how he performs in the game, by all means have him make some calls.

Sometimes we see how successful our sons are as they move through their baseball years as indications that they deserve to be in certain situations. We have to remember, success in HS does not always equal a D1 offer, success in college does not always equal being drafted and success in minor league ball does not always mean one will play major league baseball.

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Sometimes we see how successful our sons are as they move through their baseball years as indications that they deserve to be in certain situations. We have to remember, success in HS does not always equal a D1 offer, success in college does not always equal being drafted and success in minor league ball does not always mean one will play major league baseball.

Very true, good post TPM.

This may sound strange coming from someone who does what we do... But people should look at success in more than one way. If someone has enjoyed what they do, they've been very successful in my book. I don't think people should allow others to determine what is successful.

Some measure success by money and fame. Others measure success by freedom or love. Some measure success by what they've done for others. And there are others who measure success by just waking up in the morning or being able to walk.

I really wish more people would see themselves as successful. Especially young people!

I believe very much in shooting for the moon, but it doesn't mean you're a failure if you don't get there.

Sorry for getting off the topic.

Off topic? No apology needed there.

Good post, PG.

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Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
Was just wondering was this a Major League scout?

Bird dog?

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If someone has enjoyed what they do, they've been very successful in my book. I don't think people should allow others to determine what is successful.

Beautiful and very wise post PG!!!

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Originally posted by Texan:

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Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
Was just wondering was this a Major League scout?

Bird dog?

I don't know, do MLB scouts give private workout sessions? If this scout was so very interested why did he NOT go to games?

Explaining that he owned a baseball academy answered my questions.

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Originally posted by Newcomer:
What are the advantages of player evaluations based on actual game play (during league season) versus seeing a player only in a showcase or camp situation? Can a player be truly rated if you only see him in a showcase? Our 07 has participated in several showcases and college camps. Early on, a particular scout showed some interest and wanted to see more of our son. He told us at various points that he felt our son was "definitely D1 material" and gave us some recommendations for colleges. We gave the scout our son's league schedule. But he never made it to a game. Son had a great season. Made All-League, MVP for his school. The scout arranged some private work out sessions to evaluate hitting and pitching. He came to some more camps this summer. Recently, he told us, frankly (because we asked for an honest evaluation in August), that son was too slow for D1 and that he might be able to get him a walk-on at a particular D1..but that we should set our sights on D2s now. Varsity coach was stunned to hear this. Completely disagreed and felt that scout should have seen him in game action before making final evaluation. Scout has promised to "make some calls" to schools that son is interested in (D1s) to "see how interested they are". In a way, this scout's comments kind of kicked the varsity coach in gear because he is now making some calls himself to son's colleges of interest.

If you've read my previous posts about "Husband's Anxiety", you can imagine how, privately (never in front of son) we're a bit worried and confused.

It sounds like there were two mis-representations here, the scout that made promises to your family and the high school coach that waited around to help in the recruiting process. Where was he before if he wanted to be involved in the process?

It is always better to see a player in an actual game situation; there are a few challenges for college coaches to see players during the high school situation, such as they are playing their season at the same time and their highest priority is their current team and their win/lost record, and there are a wide variety of skills in a high school game. Unless you are in a very strong league, there could be as few as a hand full of actual college type players in the whole league, so you are not competing against the type of player that they are looking for, as a hitter, you could dominate a weak pitcher or as a pitcher dominate a weak hitting team. That will not tell the coaches or scouts much.

Players who compete on a high profile travel team a little advantage, if their team is successful in finding and doing well in high profile tournaments over the fall and/or summer, when the college coaches are more available, the school can see the prospect against other prospects. There are a few teams around which are fortunate enough to have college coaches and scouts following them around to and at various tournaments where a lot of the strong teams are playing, because they know that several of the players they watch are prospects and it is one stop shopping.

It is unfortunate that a scout (what ever his level would be) would lead you on for such a long time and possibly had you play on one of his teams with the lure that your son is a prospect for a certain type of school. I have to laugh at some travel teams which market the fact that they are going to high profile tournaments and want you to pay the high price to play on their team, just to get there and not perform well. There is one program in the Sacramento area that markets on his site (and post to sell his program) that says that they have contacts with a lot of major colleges and are going to these tournaments and end up not to do well and if you look on their site what schools their players go to, they are not the high profile D1 schools.

There are always cases that there are just studs out there and they will always be found, but if your son is in the larger player community, colleges and scouts need time to find the player who will fit in their program and once they identify you, they most likely will follow you for a long time before they come to a conclusion that they are a player who might fit in their program.

Showcases are a good way of getting on the coaches/scouts radar, but it has it’s same problem of having a good pitcher vs good hitter situation and the fielders may never have an opportunity to show their skills on the field.

There are different types of "scout".

That he didnt come to a HS game raises suspicions. Since MLB scouts are the majority at HS games since colleges are too involved with their own season.

It's also only 1 persons opinion.

Whether your son plays DI, DII or DIII you should have higher concern for his next level of education instead of an NCAA classification.

Newcomer, unless things have changed, and I am pretty confident they have not, DI coaches from Bay Area programs do not recruit much, if at all, by watching high school games. For whatever reason, even when some said they would be at specific high school games, they didn't show.
USF did scout the American Legion and Joe D post seasons summer tournaments.
Will the Bay Area programs miss some DI prospects because they don't scout high school games? I think the answer is yes. I know two Peninsula players who had excellent high school careers, have done just fine in college, and they never even got a look/letter or the like because they didn't showcase or travel team. On the other hand, the Bay Area DI programs have a huge talent pool and can get their selections without going to high school games.
If you feel your son is one who plays better than he showcases, getting him recruited by DI programs in the Bay Area could be a challenge, if our experience is any indication. The "scout" change from "definitely DI" to "walk on" at a "certain DI" to focus on DII, to be honest, seems hard to justify if the only explanation is "speed."
I know it is very hard to adjust when you are thinking DI, your son is thinking DI and someone has told you "definitely DI." On the other hand, you and your son will have a lot of work to do if your best bet for DI recruiting by the Bay Area programs, and his "major" exposure, is his senior high school season because it would be out of the ordinary for him to be seen there by a DI coach.
If the scout is correct that his talents are better suited at a level other than DI, you may save a lot of time and "anxiety" by changing, or at least expanding, your focus. This is especially true since it seems there is some doubt about whether the first scout report or the most recent one is the more accurate.
If I recall right, your son attended the Stanford Camp. When his review comes, that may help determine whether the "scout" information is reliable or not.

Infielddad..you have a PM

Newcomer

I am not sure what other showcases do but we have three games as part of the event to go along with the 60 yd , BP etc

The games give the coaches /scouts a chance to see the player in the format you speak of---game competition--thus they see the kid who hustles and the one who doesn't--they see the kid with attitude after a strike out or an error--they see how as pitcher reacts after a bad pitch call or bad play--we also use "patch" umpires so a full game atmosphere is there

TR, perhaps I can provide an illustration of "game play evaluation vs showcase."
Last weekend I was watching a minor league series.
Just so happened the leadoff guy for one of the teams was red hot and every time you looked up he was standing on first base(a nice 7-12 with one walk). During the course of 3 games, the #2 hitter got a hit/run sign four different times. On 3, he got base hits through the vacated infield spot. On the fourth, he hit behind the runner to advance him a base with one out. Nothing spectacular about any of it, but good crisp game play execution.
How many times do you see that occur in a showcase, even a game situation showcase? Hitters usually aren't at a showcase to give themselves up, advance runners etc., and there usually isn't any type of a grade for that "skill." I would speculate that if a player had 6 at bats in a showcase and got a hit/run sign 4 times, his parents might be asking for their money back.

I can see the advantages to both. Yet each has its own constraints. I suppose a player who gets experienced at showcasing can find a happy medium between the adrenaline rush of the game and the calm, cool of just showing his own stuff.

infielddad

You are equating two situations which are not the same-- pros vs HS

TR, whether the game is played at the minor league level or in high school, the ability to execute a hit/run and hitting behind a runner is the same skill.
To me, these are baseball skills that can be readily demonstrated in a game situation no matter what level of play is involved. On the other hand, these aren't skills that would likely ever be appreciated in a showcase.
What isn't the same in the example I provided is ability to demonstrate valuable game situation "skills" that a showcase doesn't....showcase.

Newcomer,
I never put a lot of stock into any one aspect of exposure or any one person’s evaluation. Your son’s actual “worth” can never be determined because it is based on ALL the exposure and ALL his performances and ALL the evaluations and opinions rolled up into one package. Understand too that no college coach can possibly get ALL that information on your son so that package may differ from one college coach to the next. I don’t know the situation with “your scout” but I can’t help but think he’s stringing you along. My first thought is why is he trying to market your son to a college? Have you paid this scout money? Not trying to step on any toes but I would not trust my son’s college baseball future to a high school coach and a “pro scout”. I’m sure pro scouts and high school coaches helped promote my son but I have much more faith in a great summer program and a reputable showcase when it comes to getting exposure..
Fungo

TR and infielddad - I can really see both sides of your discussion and I think both have a lot of merit.

On the one hand, a showcase can demonstrate raw tools...pitching velocity and mechanics, hands, speed, feel for the field, hitting mechanics. Coaches draw a lot of valid conclusions about a players ability and potential.

But on the other hand, game situations demonstrate the intangibles and knowledge of the game. Perhaps more of the player's "makeup" is on display in a team siutaion. A player's ability to do the small things...some of which infielddad has pointed out.

It seems to me that both are very, very important. And I keep hearing that college coaches are getting back (at least a little bit) to evaluating the intangibles. There is one such program in our area (Univ. of San Francisco) that has done very well for itself by sticking to this method. They don't land a lot of "blue chip" recruits, yet they compete...they are well coached and TOUGH as nails on the field. They work hard to identify those local kids who have grit. And with that approach they made the regionals last year despite a small budget, shaky weather and a below-avearge D1 facility.

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Originally posted by Fungo:
I have much more faith in a great summer program and a reputable showcase when it comes to getting exposure..
Fungo

Amen "brother!"