Georgetown

It's a top academic school in a great area. It's a bottom feeder in the Big East. The coach has been there ten years with a .333 winning percentage. His profile highlights back to back 25 win (losing) seasons. When a coach can lose and keep his job this long I think the athletic department isn't committed to winning baseball. It could be they're not giving him the tools to win.

Coach Wilk told us that the school was starting to fund scholarships as of the 2007-8 school year, and that up to that point they treated baseball as if they were an Ivy. That, of course, explains why they were not competitive in the Big East.

He said in 07-08 he had nine schollys to give and would be fully funded the next year. Should help the program rise out of the perennial cellar.

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Coach Wilk told us that the school was starting to fund scholarships as of the 2007-8 school year, and that up to that point they treated baseball as if they were an Ivy. That, of course, explains why they were not competitive in the Big East.

I guess this would fall under not being given the tools to win. They recruited six players for incoming '12 class. There are now thirty rostered players. It looks like good seats are still available.

There is no way GTown will ever compete in the Big East in baseball. It is beneath club LAX in order of priority. GTown, which is a relatively unattractive, vertical campus (with no natural grass except in two small cemeteries), has no baseball field. The on-campus practice facility consists of three outdoor cages and the adjacent s****r fields. Shirley Povich is a decent HS field--it is not of Div I quality. GTown cares about baseball about as much as Syracuse does (which, of course, is not at all).

Issac:

Georgetown clearly needs a greater commitment to baseball. Maybe this is coming, maybe it isn't.

But two things:

1. Shirley Povich is much, much better than you describe and better than many D1 fields I have seen across the country.

2. Georgetown has a spectacular campus. Never have I heard it described as you have. At a minimum, there is grass and trees and quadrangles and all sorts of classic college architecture across the campus.

isaacvanwart; the lack of sophistication in your commentary amazes me. The campus is beautiful - Healy Hall is a landmark recognized world round, and Copley and White Gravenor nearly are. And Healy and Copley lawns are right inside the Healy Gates.

There may not be a lot of grass, but tell, me where in Georgetown IS there a lot of grass? Yes, it plays baseball off campus, but the field is nice. It may not be a baseball school yet, but Wilk is helping it to move up the ladder.

Oh, and PS, there is only one cemetary on the campus - it is for all of the jesuit priests, should they so desire.

Sorry, to be perfectly correct it should be Jesuit (cap J).

cemetery. Geesh you got me so keyed up, my fingers messed up on the computer keyboard!

I live five minutes from Shirley Povich field, and every summer we host baseball players who play there. It's very nice.

LHPMom2012

touche, LHPMom.

Not to mention the top notch education. Also, the night life just off campus is among the best in the DC area. Or so my daughter tells me.

"Methinks [you] doth protest too much."

Let's just say, to keep it clean, that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder." To me, GTown's campus is distinctly urban, vertical, and concrete. I never said it lacked completely in redeeming qualities. There are several beautiful buildings, as you have described. But the hodgepodge of architectural styles, the grossly vertical nature of the architecture, and the almost complete lack of lawns and other green spaces is alarmingly ugly. As for the cemeteries, if it is but one cemetery, it is on two levels and is separated by substantial areas of asphalt and concrete, not to mention about 100 vertical feet.

Shirley Povich is a good municipal field. The setting is great, the stands are nice, and the field appears to be well maintained. But it is not so good for the players. Bounces at 3B are as bad as any I have ever seen, and several areas of both the infield and outfield are simply rough. Don't get me wrong, it is nice that GTown has access to a decent field (even if 30 minutes away), particularly since its on campus facilities are on par with those of a poor Junior High School.

GTown has a great reputation for academics, and Big John brought the Hoyas to some measure of basketball success as the game changed in the 80s. But GTown is not all things to all people. I happen to be a person not overly taken with GTown. I certainly would never encourage a good baseball player to go there to play baseball. Lord no. It is a joke. I don't put a whole lot of stock in their subpar football program (good grief, play Div I and compete), either. If a kid is a stud basketball player and wants to be in D.C. on an urban, vertical, concrete campus, GTown would be great.

Final note--I have personally been on two dozen college campuses that are markedly nicer (at least in my view) than GTown's.

The only building that I find ugly is the library. It is supposed to be a modern architectural interpretation/translation of Healy, and it is also a Vietnam War Memorial. There are plans in the works to re-vamp it. Healy, Copley and WG are gothic style. All other buildings are red brick - yes they may be in different architectural modes. Other buildings are generally 4 stories tall from ground level (library has 2 floors below Healy lawn ground level, Harbin is 9 but not from ground level). The university is built up hill (and so there are several different levels to the campus) and along the Potomac. The only cemetery is one level and sits between Copley and the ICC. Leo's (dining hall) has huge ceiling to floor windows overlooking the Potomac. The new MSB building, being built adjacent to Leavy, is stunning.

GU is the oldest Jesuit university in our country, with buildings pre-dating the civil war, and so the buildings are necessarily eclectic, having been built during many different eras in US history.

I have been on many campuses also. Yes, there are many lovely college campuses in our country - GU is one of them. In fact, perhaps one of the most beautiful, Princeton, is extremely ecletic, having many, many different styles of architecture.

PS JTIII ain't no slouch with his basketball program either.

To say that you would never advise a good baseball player to attend Georgetown is a little extreme. There are a lot of baseball players that also have a solid academic background. How many schools in the country have a top 20 academic reputation and play in a conference that have multiple ranked teams? For all of those "good" baseball players that cannot get significant innings or significant at-bats at a Vanderbilt or Stanford, G-town seems like the perfect situation... great competition and great athletics.

Okay, to each his own. As for me, or if I had the power to grant my son a school to attend, for academics + opportunity + beauty + baseball, before GTown I would list:

All Ivies
All ACC schools
All PAC Ten schools
All Big Ten schools
All Big 12 schools
All SEC schools
A few other select schools (several SOCON/Big South/Conf USA schools plus Miami of Ohio)
Several within the Big East (ND, St. John's, Univ of Cincinnati)

GTown is fine, but for a balance of what I would look for, or I would encourage my son to look for, GTown is way down the list.

By the way, it may be one cemetery, it may be two, but there are two levels of cemetery at GTown. One is directly above the other, by about 100 feet. Unless GTown just enjoys putting headstones into the only two bits of greenspace on campus for the fun of it.

And call it eclectic if you want. It may be that, but it is, to me, less aesthetically pleasing than dozens of campuses in America.

The second cemetery to which you refer is not on the Georgetown campus, it simply abuts the campus, and I do not believe it is affiliated in anyway with the school (but in order to confirm that I would have to check with my own personal college co-ed University tour guide (smile)). And your focus here seems to have blinded you as to the various other greenery at the school (i.e. have you entered the school through Healy Gates - what do you call the stuff on either side?) As for the remainder of your comments, well, you are entitled to your opinion, no matter how unfounded I believe them to be.

Fascinating, as Mr. Spock used to say.

The "upper" cemetery is directly accessible from the campus.

Sure, there are a few blades of grass here and there, but from my perspective, "They paved paradise, and put up a parking lot."

I'd take the lowliest school in the Pac 10 (possibly, Washington State or Arizona or Washington?) over GTown. Same with all the others on my list. There is more than enough foundation to support my view. A school that cannot field a competitive team in Bowl Championship Subdivision football or a competitive team in the Big East in baseball is not a fully-balanced major university. GTown is a good academic institution (no better, and in many cases, not as good as, those on my list, above). It falls down in comparison due to the non-academic, quality of life factors.

But this thread started out about baseball--GTown baseball is many years and a great commitment away from ever fielding a competitive baseball team.

Isaac, why all the negativity? Did G-town not accept you as a student when you were applying to college or something? Your "anywhere but G-town" approach is wearing a little thin.

FWIW, Here is what we are seeing. We hardly ever saw Georgetown attending the bigger showcases and tournaments years ago. Over the last couple years, we see Georgetown coaches at nearly all these events. I'm not sure about how well funded they are, but I'm certain that their coaches are working very hard at finding and recruiting the best possible talent. This kind of effort and commitment by the coaching staff is a very good sign for the future. They are going after the right kids!

Talking about the Pac10, SEC, Big 12, etc. doesn't pertain to Georgetown's program. There are only so many at that level. Most colleges are working to get to that level... Georgetown is one of those and they are working hard. They deserve a lot of respect and I wouldn't have a second thought about sending my son, if I had one that young, to Georgetown.

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Originally posted by Superball:
Isaac, why all the negativity? Did G-town not accept you as a student when you were applying to college or something? Your "anywhere but G-town" approach is wearing a little thin.

I don't see anything wrong with defending a position or opinion. Why would a dissenting opinion wear anymore thin than an approving opinion stated the same amount of times?

Nothing about Issac's opinion seems contrived or malicious, just opposing.

We shouldn't just be a happy site with only positive things to say. Genuine and honest opinions are always welcome, especially when supported with firsthand knowledge.

PG: Thanks for the information. It provides expert support that GU is working hard to improve its baseball. CPLZ, I agree with some of what you say. Isaac is entitled to his opinion, whether anyone else agrees or not. However, some of the schools he places ahead of GU to are not even in the same ballpark (to use and apt expression).

I started to give more input, but I think it about time enough to end the debate, because it is not fruitful, because the further we go with this, the more hostile it is seeming to become. We don't need that here. I am sure each of us is capabable of dishing it out as well as taking it. But...Disagreement, certainly. Hostility, absolutely not.

Georgetown Keeps Top 25 National Ranking

University Recognized For Business Program, Graduation and Retention, Economic Diversity and Study Abroad Experience
Georgetown University retained its spot among the nation’s top 25 universities in the 2009 undergraduate rankings released today by U.S. News and World Report.

The university kept its No. 23 ranking, a position it has held for the last four years. This marks the 19th consecutive year the university has made the list’s top 25.

“We are gratified to be recognized among our peers so highly with this year’s rankings,” said Georgetown President John J. DeGioia, but it is important to recognize that they are one measure of success. We will continue our ongoing efforts to enhance the educational experience at Georgetown by making strategic investments in faculty, facilities and financial aid.”

The university also rose six slots from last year to hit No. 32 in the “Great Schools, Great Prices” category. And, the McDonough School of Business’ undergraduate program maintained its No. 21 ranking in a three-way tie.

In a new category, the magazine asked guidance counselors from “America’s Best High Schools” what institutions they thought offered the best educations to their students. Georgetown ranked No. 9 in a eight-way tie.

Additionally, graduation and retention rates at Georgetown remain among the highest in the nation. Ranking 10th overall in that category, the university boasts a 97 percent freshman retention rate and a 93 percent graduation rate.

U.S News and World Report also recognized Georgetown as one of the most economically diverse student populations in the country and highlighted its study-abroad experiences, which landed the school on the “Programs to Look For” list.

For the seventh year in a row, the institution’s study-abroad program gained notice by the news magazine for its substantial academic work in addition to considerable interaction with local cultures.

1) Harvard
2) Princeton
3) Yale
4) MIT
5) Stanford
6t) Cal Tech
6t) Penn
8t) Columbia
8t) Duke
8t) Chicago
11) Dartmouth
12t) Northwestern
12t) Washington U
14) Cornell
14) Johns Hopkins
16) Brown
17) Rice
18t) Emory
18t) Notre Dame
18t) Vanderbilt
21) UC Berkeley
22) Carnegie Mellon
23t) Georgetown
23t) Virginia
25) UCLA

It looks to me like Georgetown is in some good company. Plus if a kid likes cities, what a dynamic place to attend college.

One last comment, then I am done. The US News and World Report rankings are wonderful, with one small exception (IMO). They include the school's endowment as one of their major ranking factors. Unfortunately, GU's endowment is not large. Speculation for this fact includes the idea that many grads go to work in the public sector, making less money, therefore giving less to their alma mater - no basis for this, pure speculation amongst the GU student population. So, that is why GU gets a 23 and no higher. I can tell you from an admissions perspective (based upon other factors, such as academics - being number one) that it is harder to get in to than some of those ranked higher than it on this list. That being said, all of the schools in the top 25 deserve being there - just maybe not in this order.

no11, spot on comment. Note also that high level public universities are also ranked artificially lower than their equals if they rely on the state to back them up, as opposed to raising massive endowments the way private U's have to just to survive. This is why so many of the very best state U's are ranked in the 20's and not the single digits.

But you can compare the academic scores USNW provides in its charts if you wish to cull out the impact of endowments.

All of which is to say, the rankings are a good general indication, but I wouldn't make a big deal out of whether you're going to # 15 vs. # 30. IMHO there is no measurable difference. On the other hand, # 15 vs. #150 is significant.

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On the other hand, # 15 vs. #150 is significant.

Sometimes #150 is the best in one or two small niches. There's a college in our area that's considered the ultimate safety school unless a student is applying to be an education major. Then it's a highly regarded school. There's a place for everyone.

The Thought Police are sure on high alert here. Hilarious. I said nothing hostile whatsover about GTown. I was, and remain, critical of the poor support of the baseball program and the aesthetics of the campus. Those are valid criticisms that would impact a student-athlete's decision making. However, reactionary posters have tried to turn my comments into something with "hostility." I harbor no hostility towards GTown. But I find it to be a less than beautiful campus and I think its baseball faclities and the apparent support for the program are not even at the quality HS level. Those comments are just me speaking the truth about GTown.

And I stand by my list for the baseball student-athlete. I would take any of the schools on my list above GTown if I were a kid looking to compete in a quality Div I baseball program that also had superb academic opportunities. Sure, USN&WR may list GTown above some of the schools I noted, but for me, the other schools offer better balance for what I would be looking for. That just is.

By the way, GTown never held any interest for me as a young HS student looking at colleges, and I have never applied there. Nor has anyone in my family. But I have lived and worked in DC off and on for 18 years, and I know GTown well enough to know what I think of it and its baseball program. I'll take the schools on my list (and those schools from which I hold degrees) over GTown any day.

If you don't agree, you are free to offer your views. But don't try to mischaracterize what I wrote as something "hostile," unless you want to call the simple statement of my honest and informed views "hostile."

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The Thought Police are sure on high alert here.

If posters were Thought Police your posts would have been deleted. Your ideas are being debated.

My comment about your applying and not being accepted was tongue in cheek.

My wearing thin comment was based on your long list of schools that you'd rate higher. Ok, you are hanging your rankings on your view of BALANCE that equally weights academics + opportunity + beauty + baseball. Maybe this makes sense to you, but it may not make sense to others. To each his own, I guess. Thanks for explaining your rationale again.

Ted:

quote:

Isaac, why all the negativity? Did G-town not accept you as a student when you were applying to college or something? Your "anywhere but G-town" approach is wearing a little thin.

You call THIS "debate"?

CPLZ: Thanks for your reasonable view.

All: GTown is a very good, even great, American university. It has a ton of wonderful qualities. BASEBALL IS NOT ONE OF THEM (at least not at thet moment, thought PG Staff would say it is headed in the right direction). And as far as I am concerned, GTown's campus is not either. But as I commented from the start, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder."