get a ground ball... just a silly observation

Search the site for "launch angle".  You will have several novels worth of reading material.  The short answer is generally no, although ground balls in HS have a far greater chance for success than at subsequent levels.

cabbagedad posted:

Search the site for "launch angle".  You will have several novels worth of reading material.  The short answer is generally no, although ground balls in HS have a far greater chance for success than at subsequent levels.

Novels.... LOL.  I could imagine. And, I will do a search.  I'm a line drive kind of guy myself.  I always tell my kids.  Never try to hit a HR, just hit a line drive as hard as you can and once in a while, you'll get one out.

But your answer sparks a curiosity....   when coaches emphasize ground ball, are they setting up their players for failure?  hmmm....

BobbyBaseball posted:

cabbagedad posted:

Search the site for "launch angle".  You will have several novels worth of reading material.  The short answer is generally no, although ground balls in HS have a far greater chance for success than at subsequent levels.

Novels.... LOL.  I could imagine. And, I will do a search.  I'm a line drive kind of guy myself.  I always tell my kids.  Never try to hit a HR, just hit a line drive as hard as you can and once in a while, you'll get one out.

But your answer sparks a curiosity....   when coaches emphasize ground ball, are they setting up their players for failure?  hmmm....

Well, my answer was "generally, no".  The vast majority don't emphasize ground ball unless situation calls for it (i.e.- R2, 0 out, tie game late - get it on the ground behind the runner).  So...

As far as your initial example, no way of knowing what the particular situation was as it pertains to that specific hitter at that moment.  Maybe the kid has been struggling with too many weak pop-outs and coach is trying to help him work toward squaring it up.  Maybe they decided on that as the mental que to do so.  Maybe the kid isn't strong enough to drive it over the IF so a hard ground ball is the most likely to produce results in the moment (not to say that would be the preferred coaching approach but everyone is different).  Maybe the infield is in terrible shape and the opposing IF's are weak.  Maybe the coach isn't very smart.  Maybe they play in a weak league and have far more success putting the ball in play on the ground, forcing the opposition to make plays.  Too many possibilities to speculate.

Not my style of coaching but the coaches probably think that when aiming for a hard "deep" grounder (I.e. one thwt bounces first past the pitchers mound) the result often will still be a low liner.

No coach, even the most old school one will hate liners it is just about whether you prefer to err on the side of the ground ball or the fly ball if you slightly miss it.

Several reasons for asking for grounder come to mind.  Advance R2 to 3rd with 0 out.  Knock in runner from 3rd with < 2 out.  Coach likes hit and run with R1 or R1 & R2 although this has been disappearing in modern game it is still pretty effective in HS if hitter can put bat on ball.

In HS since half of the players usually can't hit decent pitching - coaches are really just looking for good contact.  They may feel like staying on top of the ball gives them the best chance to get it.

On the defensive side if you don't have good outfielders any ball in the air can be trouble especially on windy early season days.  So playing odds that your best defenders SS/2B will get to handle the ball.

I would say first and foremost that is just one of his phrases, we all have them who coach.  We say certain things in certain situations and some coaches say the same thing over and over just because talking takes away from the anxiety of not being able to control the situation.

I have seen coaches who love hit and run and those like me who are not such a big fan.  When I called it, it was normally no pitch count and trying to move runner and told my batter don't hit a bad pitch but swing at the next pitch back and inside in the batter's box.   One of our coaches last year was a backside hitter so he tried to teach our entire JV to hit the backside which is waste of power.  I'm pretty sure he just swung late and that is why he hit everything backside.  Coaches have their preferences.  Some fake bunt and steal some say that is bush league, some like grounders, some line drives, some say swing for the fences and if you miss it is still hit hard. 

Hitting coaches tell hitters to hit the ball hard on the ground for success. Pitching coaches tell pitchers to get ground balls to be successful. Someone is lying.

- Ted Williams

However, at the high school level I understand coaches just wanting hard contact. But do you coach to mediocrity?

RJM posted:

Hitting coaches tell hitters to hit the ball hard on the ground for success. Pitching coaches tell pitchers to get ground balls to be successful. Someone is lying.

- Ted Williams

However, at the high school level I understand coaches just wanting hard contact. But do you coach to mediocrity?

Love that quote...!

RJM - In HS I think it depends on who is in the box and what kind of pitcher is out there.  All the good HS coaches I saw as far a W/L went had this trait in common - they rarely asked players to do things beyond their skills.

For example if the 8 hitter coaxed a leadoff walk in the 4th or 5th inning and then moved up on a wild pitch or steal that banjo hitter in the 9 hole laid down a bunt and the lead off guy picked him up with a grounder in the middle of the field.  Kills big innings but I saw a lot of HS games won 5-2 where 3 of the runs were scratched out like that. 

It kept some weaker teams hanging around but it beat a lot of good teams and it didn't do much for player development.  

Coach always had the reputation of "getting the most out of his teams".  

cabbagedad posted:

Search the site for "launch angle".  You will have several novels worth of reading material.  The short answer is generally no, although ground balls in HS have a far greater chance for success than at subsequent levels.

This is exactly the reason that HS coaches say they want hitters to hit ground balls. Most HS baseball players aren't that good. Coaches are just playing the odds and they think a ground ball gives them the best chance to get a runner on base. So he can steal 2nd, advance to 3rd on a passed ball, and score on the next weak ground ball to 2B.  Most HS coaches aren't in the business of developing HS kids into better players.  I happen to think that they should be - but they aren't.  They are in the business of winning baseball games.  The things they say and do are not designed to make anybody any better. They want ground balls because if they get one the defense has to do 3 things in order to record an out. The ball has to be fielded cleanly, the fielder has to make a good throw, and the throw has to be caught.  Simple as that sounds it goes wrong a lot of the time in HS. The biggest problem in HS baseball IMO is that parents are uninformed and have expectations that are unrealistic.  Many have spent a ton of time and money on travel ball getting their son ready for HS baseball only to fall into a well of disappointment once they get there.  

RJM posted:

Hitting coaches tell hitters to hit the ball hard on the ground for success. Pitching coaches tell pitchers to get ground balls to be successful. Someone is lying.

- Ted Williams

However, at the high school level I understand coaches just wanting hard contact. But do you coach to mediocrity?

I think that most HS coaches would rather win and lose on their coaching decisions rather than on player success or failure.  That translates into lots of bunts, steals, hit and run etc., and very little just letting them hit.

Question

do hitters hit ground ball, because they are early or late in their swing?

fly ball, early or late?

Coaches, think when you call pitches.

Bob

PitchingFan posted:

I would say first and foremost that is just one of his phrases, we all have them who coach.  We say certain things in certain situations and some coaches say the same thing over and over just because talking takes away from the anxiety of not being able to control the situation.

I have seen coaches who love hit and run and those like me who are not such a big fan.  When I called it, it was normally no pitch count and trying to move runner and told my batter don't hit a bad pitch but swing at the next pitch back and inside in the batter's box.   One of our coaches last year was a backside hitter so he tried to teach our entire JV to hit the backside which is waste of power.  I'm pretty sure he just swung late and that is why he hit everything backside.  Coaches have their preferences.  Some fake bunt and steal some say that is bush league, some like grounders, some line drives, some say swing for the fences and if you miss it is still hit hard. 

This is the one I want my kid playing for.