Going to college to play baseball

Pop Up Hittter dad your son's situation is probably more common than you think. I always said that my son's college life was centered around the baseball field and everything else was just buildings. While I'm not an educated person I know an education is VERY important --- more so now than when I graduated high school (1963). Whether or not my son wanted to go to college or not, I would encourage him to do so. Your son may have HIS opinion of college because YOU say: I say why waste your time and money at college.

College is NOT a waste of time and money for ANYONE! Granted it does require time and it does require money but they are NOT "wasted". They are INVESTED. My son had the option of playing pro ball out of HS (drafted 5th round) or playing college ball. I'm proud that I encouraged (closer to insisted) he attend college. He went three years and then was drafted again. After a short 4 year stint in the pro ranks he retired and to my joy has returned to college to get his degree. Today he calls me and recaps his progress in the classroom instead of the field. The excitement in his voice is the same as if he had hit a game winning homerun. Stats take on a whole different meaning ----- at last they have become meaningful.
Fungo

Popup,

Not unusual at all; I'm not sure my older son would've gone to college, if not for the chance to play baseball for four more years. A redshirt and academic indifference made it a 5 year deal.

The silver lining is he did get the degree, without wasting more time studying than absolutely essential, enjoyed his college years to be sure, made lots of lasting friendships, even learned a little, and has a real job. To stay baseball eligible, his grades had to stay at moderately acceptable levels, although he might've set a NCAA record for semesters in Study Hall.

That draft thing doesn't always happen, and even if drafted, the odds of making a living playing baseball are extremely slim. A degree is helpful and having baseball on the resume is a plus-lots of frustrated jocks doing the hiring out there will have their eye caught by someone being a college athlete.

As I was repeatedly told for 5 years as I agonized, whined, pushed, pulled, and griped about grades, "Dad, two years after I graduate, nobody will ask what my major was or what my GPA was, they'll just want to know that I have the piece of paper." Sure enough, I don't think his employer ever asked for a transcript, or inquired about his GPA.

To me, college is like a halfway house between home and the 'real' world. I would have hated to join the workforce at age 18. I had a lot of growing up to do when I left home to go to college, and sure enough, it was the adventure of a lifetime that I wish I could repeat over and over again. No, I don't remember much about my classes. My GPA was fair to middling. But I became a new person. I found myself (and my future wife, come to think of it!) and to me that was worth every penny.

I'd pay all over again if they could shave 29 years off my life and let me in again.....oh, and I would have tried to play baseball, too!

quote:

just hope you get drafted

For many that is a biiiiiiiig hope.
Its also a risky hope.

Probably a good idea to have a back up plan.
Plan " B " ( although if it were my son, I'd encourage it to be plan " A " ): start the college process,...get an education,....and increase the baseball skills.


Thats a pretty good win-win situation plan. He would be making progress in two areas,..not just one.
Perhaps might even increase the chances of actually getting drafted!

What if he didnt go to college and didnt get drafted?
Does he have a plan " C "?

As always very insightful answers to our situation. Fungo, it must have been exciting to see your son play both college and pro ball. I understand so well the importance of getting a college degree, but my son just doesn't see the light here. We've had to write off the out of state schools due to our limited finances. With this economy thing, we're cutting back even on baseball, no more showcases, etc.

My son much to his regret will need to look into our local JCs that have baseball programs so he can commute to school. When this whole frustrating process completes itself, I will surely let all know how it all pans out.

quote:

My son much to his regret will need to look into our local JCs that have baseball programs so he can commute to school. When this whole frustrating process completes itself, I will surely let all know how it all pans out.

I think the JUCO is a very good route to go for many reasons. Don't look at the JUCO route as "second rate" in either education or baseball. Good baseball is HOW you play not WHERE you play ---- and a good education is WHAT you learn not WHERE you learn.
Fungo

I would be inclined to tell him to start paying room and board and get a job. Might be harder than getting drafted these days.
No cut rate room and board and deduct taxes. Also pay forcar and gas and see how important it is to have a good job.
Kids are very naive and a taste of reality might do the trick.
Today you will change jobs more often than in the past. No more working for a unionized factory for life. You can either develop marketable skills which today require education. The college degree is only a door opener.
I do know people who make good livings without college and they are usually tallented sales people of computer guys but they are also very rare. Also people who go into business and succeed are very rare. I see so many naive people go into business and fail miserably because they don't have a clue about what it tales. I am in a business that gets new young people every day. They can't find a job and only about 1% survive for a year or more.
Life is much tougher than young people think. Without a degree or a marketable skill it is even tougher.

PopuP

Here is a personal experience:

My son was a terrible HS student and I swear to this day that had it not been for baseball he would not have gone to college----well he did, 2000 miles away, and graduated with his degree, a job offer waiting, a offer to sign as a free agent and a GPA greater than what he had in HS.

We sent my stepson down south to college where his grades were terrible---we bring him back hme put him in a another college, D-I, they give him the help in the classroom that he needed and he makes National Honor Society

As Fungo says College is never a waste and I can attest to that---both of the two above noted kids are now gainfully employed, one in the hotel/tourism business and the other in marketing with a major cable company

A few years back who woulda thunk!!!! THANK GOD FOR BASEBALL !

I also think the JUCO college route sounds perfect. I know of many kids that were poor students through high school, but once in the JUCO setting, the light went on and they found academic success.

Then there is the cost factor, along with the ability to postpone choosing a major for a few more years. More positives to JUCO's than most people realize.

The professional minor leagues out of high school is way more difficult than people realize. If you aren't a high pick on a fast track, your odds of success are not good.

I always say use your baseball skills to help get an education.

I agree with other posters that the JC route while may not be the glamorous route that others take by saying they are going to XYZ college on a great athletic scholarship, it is a very good option for your son who may not know what he wants in terms of education. Going off and doing the college life in addition to playing baseball is difficult to do, so the JC route is a great way to find out what he is interested in terms of study, he may get engaged in some subject that he is interested in as well as getting some GE classed out of the way and he can keep his baseball skills going.

Again, it may be glamorous to say he went off to a JUCO out of state on an athletic scholarship, but if you can’t swing the room and board cost, there is nothing wrong with staying at home and getting two years out of the way. But most players don’t get full rides in baseball, so even if he got a scholarship to a four year school, the cost of attendance outside of any athletic scholarship will have to be dealt with as well as if your son was going to go the pro route, unless he gets a massive amount of signing bonus, the monthly compensation for the months of the year he is actually playing in not very high.

Pop Up Hitter dad,

You've been very open in describing your son's situation, and your frustration. It seems that the two of you are having trouble interacting effectively, and furthermore there is a difference in approach taken by his mother and you.

That suggests to me that there may be real value in somehow getting your son into a 2 or 4 year college in which he lives away from home, but has the direction and support of a baseball program. Perhaps the dynamics of interaction among the three of you is getting in the way of your son's maturation. Sometimes a kid makes bad decisions just to avoid "giving in" to his parents.

Attending a local JC might be enough of a change, but more likely it's going to provide a similar environment and living arrangement as high school. It may be "worth it" to instead send him to college away from home.

Regarding the draft, I personally think that the life of a minor league player is unlikely to be desireable for a kid who hasn't yet discovered a clear direction to take.

We have always pushed our son to do well in High School and he has. Taking every honor class he could and doing very well grade wise with an eye of going to a 4 year college (baseball or not). His grades and SAT scores would get him into many colleges. I am sorry to say being self employed in this present economic climate I don't think I will be able to afford send him anywhere else but a JC. I am realy feeling the pinch. I don't think it is going to get better for a couple of years. It makes me sad that he has done his part and I probaly will not be able to do my part.

I am happy to say that son has always felt JC ball is great way to go. Lucky for us there are two wonderfull JC's minutes from our house. Both teams are very good and competitive. Son does not feel that playing JC ball is a demotion or a scarlet letter. He see's it as simply baseball after High School and a possible step down the path to playing at a 4 year school. For that I am happy. For me going to a JC for an education and possibly playing JC baseball is a life saver as son might be able realize his dream of playing BB after High School.

Lots of good posts.

Players who are drafted and sign straight out of high school almost never go back to college get their degree after finishing their pro career. If they don't go straight to college out of HS, the odds are they will never get a degree.

quote:

Originally posted by gimages:
His grades and SAT scores would get him into many colleges. I am sorry to say being self employed in this present economic climate I don't think I will be able to afford send him anywhere else but a JC. I am realy feeling the pinch. I don't think it is going to get better for a couple of years. It makes me sad that he has done his part and I probaly will not be able to do my part.

The grades may produce an exempted academic grant, then add any baseball grant, then do your FAFSA to qualify for the loans.

He will get the student loan, you can get a ParentPLUS, and he can even qualify for an additional $4000 student loan. Maybe the entire package can work.

If JUCO ends up the decision, be sure to communicate with a chosen 4 year college advisor and the JUCO advisor to ensure 100% of the credits transfer in full toward an accredited degree program.

Popup,

Your frustrations are understandable. My suggestions:

1. Try turning it around on him. If he wants to play college baseball, he will need better grades. If baseball is what motivates him to do better and to stay in school, then maybe it will pay off for him in a way other than a pro bonus or paycheck some day.

2. Remember that life is often forgiving. My own brother, though a pretty smart guy, never cared for school, had a lackluster performance in HS and dropped out in his third semester in college (to tour with a traveling rock band, believe it or not). But then a funny thing happened. He got to be 25 and he realized that everyone he knew treated him like a dunce because he hadn't gone to college. He decided to show them. He went back to school, worked hard at it for the first time in his life, got great grades and his degree at age 28. Today he lives the typical suburban life, nice house, steady job, 2 kids, etc.

Some folks just have to learn the hard way. But life is long and there are second chances. If your son has to take a few hard knocks, those may work better than all the jawboning you could possibly administer.

A few years earning 7k and 11k/year in the minors might do the trick, if he even gets that opportunity.

Popup,

I was there with my son. High School grades were not good, knee surgery senior year, no offers or draft. Went JC because it was that or pay rent. Good Freshman year. Great soph year, lots of interest, probably 1/2 dropped as soon grades discussed, no draft, our fault played college ride too hard(too much $$$). 4 year mid level D1 school, so-so Jr. year, arm surgery at end no draft, asked to not come back until passed several college courses as he would be in elgible. Last year part time at top 30 D1, flunked 1 of 4 classes he needed, D1's told him no way to get elgible. No school last spring, no baseball, worked retail. Now 21 seemed to wake up a little at NAIA for Sr. year, 21 units, passing all. Looking forward to baseball. Seems excited about school, possible graduation in 3 semesters, and baseball.

Some kids wake up late. Be patient, explain options and let him grow up.

Fungo, I totally agree how important college is, my older daughter is working on her last year in DII, even made Dean's list, and youngest daughter doing very well in HS so Pop Up has two daughters who work hard. I think 3 Finger is very insightful with my situation in that having him leave home may just be the cure. Kind of like sending your son off to the Army but much easier for him. I guess sometimes you take a gamble in life, in this case our son's education. I will send him to visit out of state JC and see how it goes.

My biggest disappointment is not seeing my son sign that big NLI, as he sure has the athletic skills to play at large institution. I really want him to succeed so he can do better than the old man.

I really appreciate hearing other parents experiences. I sure wish I could take BobbleHead's advice but Momma won't agree.

quote:

Originally posted by Pop Up Hitter dad:

My biggest disappointment is not seeing my son sign that big NLI, as he sure has the athletic skills to play at large institution. I really want him to succeed so he can do better than the old man.

Maybe this is a big part of the problem you guys are having.

quote:

More positives to JUCO's than most people realize.

quote:

The professional minor leagues out of high school is way more difficult than people realize.

Excellent points, Blprkfrnks.

quote:

My biggest disappointment is not seeing my son sign that big NLI, as he sure has the athletic skills to play at large institution.

Pop UP Hitter Dad,

Check the odds of accomplishing that.

JUCO is perfect.

It will provide the needed transition, the cost is right, the baseball is good, the chances of making the team are better, it's close to home, and you can make the games.

quote:

Does anyone know of or have a similar situation like this?

There's about 114,000 of you out there..............

PopupHitter Dad,

I think many parents get hung up with wanting their kid to sign a NLI. My son signed one and is still at a JUCO Or Junior college.Believe me there are good baseball players and good coaching at the Junior college level.And good gen. ed classes.
Sometimes the more we push what we want on our kids the more they rebel. These young boys are becoming men and with that comes making their own decisions , AND this comes with paying the consequences if the decisions are not the right ones. Its painstaking to watch but they learn from their mistakes and they will after a while start asking for your advice again.
It seems that you and your son and wife have some strain with all of this in your relationship and its tough when mom and dad arent on the same page. But before baseball, college or anything else I pray that you can have a healthier relationship with your son. Maybe he doesnt care about college, as posted earlier many kids go to college to play baseball and end up geting their degree.he will learn whats important. take yourself back to when you were eighteen. what were you like. I went to college and never cracked my books but after not going to college for a while and coming back I got my nursing degree and now at 48 I am finishing my bachelors. Life takes us down lots of roads and not always good ones but baseball is one road, college is another road, sometimes some kids might not pick either. Heartbreaking as it is at times just LOVE them with all you got, tell them all the time how much you love them, try and tell them positive attributes about themselves, belive me they still need that esp. young boys. If this were your last day here on earth what would you say to your son?
think about that because for one family on this site that has become a reality. all the posts about Mary ann talk about what a great mother she was. thats what I would want to be remembered as. If it were my last day, I would tell my son that it had been an honor and a privelage that God gave him to me to take care of. I would tell him that he is a blessing from God and I have been blessed. I would love on him and hug him and tell him that the love I feel for him has no earthly boundaries. it goes out and pours out into the heavens and beyond. even if he was being a stink at the time I would want him to always know that I LOVE HIM UNCONDITIONALLY. I tell him every night I love you son before he goes to bed. He tells me mom I love you , dad good night and I love you. We have had some difficult transitions with him as he has tried to be independent as he should, and I do not always agree with his decisions but I am lerning to acccept them and let him learn from them. Thats all we can do. Most importantly just love him above all else and love never fails.best of luck My prayers continue to go to Mary anns family as they prepare for thier mothers, wifes funeral. tough day ahead for all of them. God bless them this weekend and for the days to come. when something like this happens we all need to relize the most important thinks in our lives and they are not things. Relationships with one another. best of luck PPHD I hope you and your son find a middle road that you can meet on.

It may be that JC may offer things that might interest your son other than just academic. When we started looking we looked at some JC and they offered some very ionteresting fields of study. Maybe your son is not academically iclined. I remember some JCs that offer aviation training and other fields that may interest your son. Academic degrees are great but usually are just the beginning of your education.
I think the biggest problem is that kids don't know what they want to do even after graduating. I know I didn't and took 3 years of law school because I didn't know. I enjoyed it and it was a great education and has served me well but it did tend to pigeon hole my options. Maybe you should explore other things that might interest your son and still allow him to play cllege ball.

A JUCO sounds like a good fit. A great way to continue playing the game, and mature, get a good education, prepare to move up/on. Many go this route, many continue.

Homerun4, thanks for the PM, I'm still not sure how you send one of these PMs. Fanofgame, I will try my best to smooth things over. It was a shame what happened to Mary Ann and the pain her family is feeling.

I too was not very focused in HS, but I did attend voc school, got into a good trade, I cannot complain. We all know most college graduates do better in life. The best thing about son in baseball, he has stayed out of trouble and made some very good friends.

Fan,
You are so sweet and so accurate in your post. I also hope the PUHD finds a balance in his relationship with his family.

PUHD, baseball is just a game and your son not playing bigtime D1 is really not important as to HIM being a good son and happy. In the grand scheme of life, what other things he does with his life is (important).

Popup Hitter dad,

Thanks for taking my words and taking them to heart and not being defensive that is a great start. I am praying for you every day , you are on my list of who to pray for. TPM , thanks for the encouragement i had a rough day so any positives are much appreciated. Hey parents college is tough Im doing it and its HARD.3 semesters and Ill have my bachelors...yeah....... I get to go watch my sons JC scrimmage a university tomorrow so thats cool.see how he hits the big guys LOL. POPUPhitters dad, just to help you relax my sons been at a juco(JC) for two months and alrady some interest from a D1. and he has two seasons to go. just think what might happen....... one thing for sure 30 units of college LOL good night I am off to bed so I can arise and watch my son play tomorrow and that brings me so much joy.

Does your son know what college life is like for a student. Many high school kids think of college as four more years of the same experience that they've gotten in high school. Perhaps you should encourage him to take a college campus tour. My son didn't totally buy in to the need to go to college until he went on a tour with his buddy and decided it was definitely something HE wanted. After that he went on several more campus tours to figure out which school would be the best fit for him.

There are all kinds of college students; some are clearly better then others. But the one thing they all have in common is that they are young and need to grow-up. To a degree my son is like other kids, he knows he wants to play baseball and the only way that he can is to go to school, get the grades and be a gentleman (that is my requirement).

The number of kids that know what they want to do, or why they are really in school at ages 18-20 is small. I look at college as a safe place to grow-up, learn to live on your own in a safe enviroment and if they play ball, no matter how poorly they do in school, they will have a good story to tell when they either look for work or move on to graduate school.

Beyond what DG said, you need to do more than go on a tour. Kids need to spend a least a whole day, during the school year on campus. Go to a class, eat in the dining hall, spend the night in the dorms. If he is a ball player, go to a practice, sit in the dugout listen to the coaches, watch the kids. Not until you have walked in their shoes will your son have an idea what it is like to be a college student.

DG and ILVBB, son is going on unofficial trip out of state to JC. Will get to attend workout with team, check out campus and spend the night with player in their apartment (no dorms). This is very good advice and son will see for himself. I will surely keep you posted on his thoughts after returning.

On a similar note, son played on fall scout team with other top players from NW. They played all JC teams and I will tell you my eyes don't lie. All these people who told me my son was D1, were blowing smoke in my face. My son got one hit off the JCs, struck out more times than I can remember. Even the committed D1 kids struggled. Of all our pitchers, I saw only one that could hold his own against their hitters. I am no longer disappointed son is not going the D1 route. I now know he would sit his freshman and maybe sophomore years.

HS parents, go to a JC game, maybe invite your son to watch. Trust me, they hit better, pitch better, and field better. I saw very few pass balls, our guys had a ton. The JC kids knew when to go, the very second the ball gets past catcher, gone. Any base unattended, gone!

Fan, I'm going to lighten up on number one son, this experience is more than anything I can ever tell him. What an opportunity it was.

While Pop Up is on his soap box, the first college coach that tells you your son is the best _______ he's ever had, run don't walk away. They haven't seen your son but maybe one time, that is not a long enough assessment to make that statement. Our local university believes in to trying to recruit from local talent, their roster proves it. He never made mention how good my son was, but to explain his methods. I only wish we could afford this school and number one, son would want to go. But I think in his mind, its too close to home.

quote:

On a similar note, son played on fall scout team with other top players from NW. They played all JC teams and I will tell you my eyes don't lie. All these people who told me my son was D1, were blowing smoke in my face. My son got one hit off the JCs, struck out more times than I can remember. Even the committed D1 kids struggled. Of all our pitchers, I saw only one that could hold his own against their hitters. I am no longer disappointed son is not going the D1 route. I now know he would sit his freshman and maybe sophomore years.

This is actually a refreshing attitude here on the hsbbweb. IMHO, you may be too harsh on your son and giving the other guys too much credit. Maybe your son's timing was off that weekend and it made him look bad. Maybe the other kids had been practicing and scrimmaging everyday for the last four weeks and that gave them an advantage

College players are not forged in one weekend of ball. It takes time to adjust to the college game and there is nothing unusual about that. Not suggesting making excuses for him, but allowing him to grow his game with time.

PoPup Hitter dad,

I really like the fact that you listen to people on this site. You dont get defensive and you try to implement the opinions given. You are right about the JC, there are some very good players that just might have got missed by the D1 schools.And your right about playing against guys that are 1-2 years older then 3-4 years older.
There are very few STUDS across teh entire nation that can walk on a D1 filed and contribute, they are out there and we see them but the majority of the kids will sit there first two years. good luck with the JC.keep us posted. it sounds like a good academic place for him now as well. Gives him a chance to mature and figure out whats important. Lots of guys at JCs like that. best for you and your son. give him a hug today and find one positive LOL. (sometimes thats hard when things arent going well)

Cleveland Dad, you made a good point about the college players, it never occurred to me they were working out every day and my son was playing one day a week. He does get better the more he plays and I may be a bit critical in that respect.
Fan of Game, woke son up this morning for school, told him I loved him and he told me to leave him alone. Oh well, guess he didn't think I was serious, but with HSBBW's help, I am taking this whole process day by day. What will happen will happen. The ball is in son's court now.

It is so refreshing to see honest and open discussion here. I had a dad tell me last season "Coach he can definitely play D2." He was talking about his son. I said "Have you ever seen a D2 game? Do you know anyone that plays in a D2 program? Have you ever been to a college game at any level?" The dad was very upset and said "He is just as good as most of the kids in this conference." Yes he is. And most of these kids will play their last game of baseball this season.

If a player can move on to the next level period that is a tremendous accomplishment. No matter where you go to play you are going to have to compete to play. I enjoy reading posts that are real.

quote:

woke son up this morning for school, told him I loved him and he told me to leave him alone.

Sounds like you have a pretty normal teenager there Pop Up Hitter dad. Most dont like to be woke up for any reason at this age.

No need to worry who has the ball or which court its in,...just keep telling him.

Jason Armstrong, Nick Vera, Brian Oates, Evan Bronson.....their names may not be 'household' (yet?), but the point is that all were drafted and/or played or are playing MiLB. They are all DIII players. And they all came from one DIII school within the past few years.

DI, DII, DIII, NAIA, JUCO -- the better programs at each level can regularly beat a good chunk of the school teams 'above' them......

Play ball........just....play ball.

I played JC football with three guys that played in the NFL. One played in the league for 15 years. There are many reasons kids end up where they end up. The bottom line is there are many players at lower levels of the game at the next level that are just as good and in many cases better. The bottom line is your still playing. Your still enjoying the game. And your giving yourself a chance to be in the game long enough to reach your full potential. There are a ton of guys that never play past hs that could be studs if they had moved on but didnt for whatever reason.

The big thing is your still playing and your getting and education at the same time. Isnt that all that really matters?

Coach May has some good insight on this, the opportunity to play after HS is quite an feat in itself. Now as many have said before the best thing to do is research a school that is recruiting you by going over past and present rosters. For the program my son will be visiting, a JUCO, I noticed for instance that all freshman catchers were not back for sophomore seasons several years in a row. Why? This school does have a good reputation for turning out pitchers, they list several former players going on to D1 and minor leagues, 90% were pitchers. To me this puts up a red flag as son is a catcher. Anyone have any ideas why a program cannot hold on to these kids? The current roster for 2009 has 3 freshman catchers, maybe coach knows he'll need a fresh crop for 2010?

If the program turns out a bunch of Pitchers each year it sounds like the coach is using catchers to showcase and perfect his pitching staff. The catchers may feel that they are just there for that, to develop pitchers. They may not feel that their best interests are being looked out for. Be very careful as to what the coaching staff tells you. Do your due dilligence, you seem to have uncovered a trend that may impact your son down the road if he were to play there as well.

PoPupHitter Dad

never get that spelling right, always hurrying to post.anyway remember ROME WAS NOT BUILT IN A DAY....... your relationship is strained ,has been for a while, just keep saying positive things, avoid confrontations if possible(unless he is just plain out of line).Im excited to hear how this out of state Juco visit goes.One thing my son said last night is look how fast time goes we are half way though the first semester, it flew, so try to enjoy this time , could be the last years our sons play baseball. I savor even getting to the fall games early to watch warm ups, I am taking it all in, because after the JC my son will most likely be farther away from home than the 45 minutes to his JC.GOOD LUCK with all of it you continue to be in my prayers.

WD I would just understand that most schools BS to a point. I wouldn't let it alter my goals. If JC is an alternative then look at them but don't limit it to JC. They also can have their issues.
I would continue to look at colleges that are intersting to you and your son. Learn to recognize the signs that they are stringing you along while holding the door open to other players. Coaches understand how important this recruiting can be to a BB player. They know all thye buzz words and stall techniques. If a coach says you are #1 guy ask him how soon you can expect Brinks/Wells Fargo to make the money drop at your front door. Cut to the chase. If and when you secure a roster spot you will be there to compete and won't remember the BS.