Skip to main content

My son just received a 45% offer at a D-1 school here in the Midwest. Considering we are out of state, that amounts to about $10,000/year which is obviously a good chunk.

They basically told him that CF was his position to lose as a Freshman, and that they expected him to be a 4 year starter. I realize that might be a bit of a sales pitch, but if true,shouldn't the offer be a bit higher?

I understand that OF's are not typically the highest priority, but if they really expect him to be a 4 year starter, I would think they would offer more?

He has recived a full offer from a good JUCO, but Mom doesn't want that. Also, a good offer from a small D-2, but son wants a larger school than the 2000 enrollment this one has.

3 more D-1 visits planned and all have indicated that they would make an offer at visit.

Thanks for any advise on this matter!
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

gitnby, it's hard to know whether your son's offer at this particular school should be higher, given the coach's prediction that he'll be a 4-year starter. There are a lot of variables to consider. Perhaps the school has a lot of money already tied up with upperclassmen. Perhaps it's needing to save the bulk of its scholly money for pitchers. Perhaps the school was desperate for a catcher and threw 100% at one with a 9.5 PG rating.

I know of one '09 middle-infielder here in Texas who was offered 100% by a mid-major, 60% by a top-40 school, and 40% by a perennial powerhouse. He chose to attend the 60% school. Most likely, his decision was based on his gut feeling about the school and its program after looking at all 3 offers.

It's awesome that your son has more offers coming his way! My recommendation is to field all the offers, visit all the schools, and ask lots of questions at each school. After it's all said and done, I predict you'll have your answer of which school your son should attend.

Best wishes!
quote:
Originally posted by Infield08:

My recommendation is to field all the offers, visit all the schools, and ask lots of questions at each school. After it's all said and done, I predict you'll have your answer of which school your son should attend.





Gitnby, you couldn't have gotten better advise than that above! For those of us who've been through this process, no action is the best action until you've seen and/or talked to every school, coach, player, etc. However exciting it is right now for your son and you, it's best that you remain calm headed around your son (the best you can!) and tell him it's best that he speak to everyone he can. No need to be in a hurry, sign, and regret it later...as in the spring.

As far as how money is typically given out..Infield was correct again. Usually the Pitchers, catchers, and MIF's are the recepients up front and early.

Good luck and keep us informed as to how it goes!
People tend to throw a lot of numbers around when they talk about their kid. I cringe everytime I hear 100% thrown out there, it's very, very uncommon. Anything over 50% for a pitcher, the number one priority, is uncommon.

For the most part, outfielders are the red headed stepchild of the scholarship game.

I would guess, that if your scholarship offer is that high, and I do believe it is very high for an outfielder, they must be trying to get you to forego the MLB draft and come to school.

Just remember that these are my opinions, and by no means should you consider them expert, just an informed parent. Boil all the fluff away, and is saving $10,000 a good deal to you? Is it from the school junior wants to attend? Your gut will probably know the answers to those questions, make sure you're listening, which can be a very hard thing for a parent, and I am not the exception. Smile

Best of Luck!
Excellent advice offered in this thread.

My take is a wee bit different. For starters, 45% is an outstanding offer as CPLZ noted. There are only 11.75 per team. If they start giving 100% out to a few guys, the rest of the team will be composed of walk-on players. Unless the amount makes a big difference to your family's bottom line, you might want to consider other factors such as is the school a good baseball, cultural, and academic fit for your son. Baseball wise, the most important question (imho) is do they win? Getting 100% at a loser would not be worth it to me and especially my son. On the other hand, if it were all about the finances, it just might be worth it to your family.

If you find your dream school, I would accept the offer. Playing the field after you have found the ideal fit might cost you the opportunity to play there. If the only issue is playing them for more money, then it might not be the right fit for him.
I appreciate all of the comments and suggestions!

Cleveland Dad, I am not looking to play them for more money.
I am just asking more as a matter of comparison to other offers that may be coming.
None of the other schools are promising anything regarding playing time,as it should be, so maybe the 45% is the highest he should expect?

BTW,the amount offered is way down the list of important factors for us.
My son is a couple of years away so I know very little about this subject, but can add that the center fielder from my son's team was offered 25% at a top 50 D1 this summer. I think they were going to give him the opportunity to start in his Freshmen season. They were negotiating for more but have not talked to them in a while to know the final outcome. I know that the coach was helping them get scolly $.
I am not trying to be sarcastic but every one brought in has the opportunity to start. The expectations for players will be different coming in based on what they have seen prior to coming. But the performance once they have arrived will determine the role and the playing time for each player. Regardless of how much money you are given or not given to come.

No coach trying to recruit a player is going to say "You will not start and you will not have the opportunity to start." I would be very leery of any coach at any program who promised any kid a starting posistion. Opportunity of course. Thats what it is , an opportunity.
Nobody "promised" him a starting position.
They are losing their CF to graduation and told us that they were only going to sign one outfielder this coming year.
They said that the spot was his to lose. Obviously he has to perform!

Got a PM from someone today who said that at a typical D-1 school, the scholarship breakdown can look something like this:

13 pitchers @ 50% average scholly= 6.5
2 catchers at 50% = 1
4 Middle infielders at 50% average= 2


That leaves 2.2 for 4-5 OF's and 1B and 3B, and utility players.

Interesting!
Defining scholarship percentages by position does have some validity but is confusing the issue. My son was a two way player and different schools recruited him for different positions. In talking to the coaches during the recruiting process (prior to the offer) I listened as they prefaced their scholarship offer. Most will tell you WHY they have come to their conclusion. I think there are many factors that determine the scholarship amount. Some are:
Funding
Scholarships Available
Team Needs
Talent
Player Needs

At the school my son ultimately signed the coach also signed an outfielder at the same time. My son and he were both 5th round draft picks and I will wager they both had identical scholarships because the factors listed above were basically identical.

Do individual pitchers get more? Yes but it's because their talent and the team's needs CAN elevate them to a higher level than most position players. At the same time there are a lot of "walk-on" and "books only" pitchers too.

In my opinion talent is the major influence controlling scholarship amounts. A D-1 offered my son a 100% scholarship and since my son was a two way player I asked at what position they wanted him. The coach's answer surprised me. "Any position he wants to play".
One thing I would keep in mind is that scholarships offers are often withdrawn. When we din't accept the 1st offer the coach started withdrawing offers to accumulate the money to make us a counter offer.
45% for an outfielder is a decent offer. Most athletes will not reveal the amount they get and are told by nthe coach to not discuss the offer with anyone.
I would seriously question anyone who says they got a full ride. I see this all the time and the public believes that all BB players get one. 1 BB player doesn't make a team no matter how good he is.
IMO, the offer is only a good one if all criteria are met for the right fit for the player.

Son would have received state money if he attended UF, they threw in the balance, which would have made it a "full ride" to some. It would have cost us nothing to send him to Gainesville, but for him, it was not the right place for him.

Never base your decision on who will give you the most, consider all factors.
My son is very excited about the changes. They have a great P coach which is the 4th in 4 years. They have also vowed to get back to playing the top teams again. It may be late for my son but they have committed more funds . They even dropped the successful tennis team are are diverting those funds to BB.
We were dissappointed with the changes that occured and especially the lack of a good P coach after the freshman year. My personal feeling is that the coach dropped the teams like FS,USC Mizz S and others to try and save his job with a better win/loss record but it demoralized the team.
My son chose the school because of location and the schedule. Thank god Charleston is still there. We are heading down for the parent weekend Oct 17th. I haven't seen my son this excited for awhile.
I knew last season that the coach would be gone. There were too many seniors complaining on their exit letters. I did feel sorry for him because he was recruiting some very talented players but couldn't get the team to perform. One guy just quit in the middle of the year last year and several were not coming back until they heard he was gone. We had 3 freshmen on the louisville freshman 1st team out of 5. The talent was there but the coaching wasn't.
The 1st P coach was very good but he left due to issues with the HC.
This is why recruits should be careful when picking a college. Coaches change quite often and some times with devastating results. I have always pushed location and academics as the most important factor in chosing a college.
One thing that is often not discussed here on the HSBBW, all programs, even the best have issues.

We could all relate to that because we work, we have days we don't want to go to the office and other days we can't wait to get there. All depends what's going on with the boss that day, or how well or not well the company is doing, etc. In other words there's lots of BS and PC we have to get through in a day, and college sports programs are no different in that respect. I worked for a top fortune 500 company that you are all familiar with, it was not the best years that I put in on my job or my career. Yet when I told people where I worked, they thought I was such a lucky person to be there. Roll Eyes It became especially difficult after changes began to take place, new bosses with different views from the last one. Or in a few cases, supervisors who most likely shouldn't be in that position. The one saving grace for most of us is that we loved each other as coworkers.

Since most of our son's never worked, it's hard for them to relate. So it's our job to try to make them understand that there are many considerations in the recruiting process.

That's why I cringe when I hear folks say their players choose the school primarily for baseball or for the offer. The baseball program should be only one PART in the decision.

Mine went to a program with a winning tradition and everything one would want from a baseball program. But there were times (luckily not that often) that he was glad when he left the field or after a tough loss that he loved where he was to offset frustrations he felt from the pressures of baseball.
Last edited by TPM
First point in response to all the above:

I spent some time looking into what might be considered "going rates" for D-I deals, assuming the school has funded its full allotment.

There basically seemed to be two separate scales for pitchers and for offensive players.

Pitchers: 50% indicates you are considered a strong candidate to really get time on the mound. Weekend starter potential could mean 70%. If you want more than that you need to be in a great negotiating position, someone viewed as having immediate impact and perhaps being courted by other schools (bidding war).

Offense: 25% is not really the minimum, 0% is. Lots of guys get 0% and are happy for the opportunity, maybe a thumb on the scales with admissions. 25% is the minimum for those who get some baseball money. This is a tough threshold for many to get. Offers of 1/3 or higher indicate you are projected as a future starter. 50% indicates stud hitter. 70% indicates elite hitter, immediate impact player.

Now, this is sweeping with a pretty broad brush. There are hundreds of programs and they all do things differently, so this is admittedly just a very rough guide. If you live in FL and you qualify for Bright Futures, baseball might pick up room, board and books and you are attending school for free at that point. If you want to play for Miami, the fact that they have so many studs wanting to play there allows them to force players to take lesser percentages, which in turn allows them to get more stud guys on the team (quality roster depth). Some schools rely on their academic reputations to sell the school and thus get guys to take lesser %'s as well, to the same end.

All of which means, any given school might scoff at my numbers above, but I think they are OK as a general guideline. All of which leads me to say that 45% to a catcher is a darned good offer.
TPM that is so true.
I would never talk about my son's experience while the coach was still there. In fact I encouraged him to get past the issues and support his coachas I always have done. I didn't want to hear coach bashing but it was okay to discuss it with me. Over all my son's experience was very good and he was well liked by the coaches. The unfortunate part was the coach had dislikes for players which were evident during the season.
It is very important for parents and players to know this and to prepare their son's for thsi. This is one reason I don't like parents and players questioning coaches about playing time etc. A falling out with the coaches, bad mouthing them and not giving 100% support will come back to bite you.
Several players on my son's team left because they were at odds with the coach. Some were great ball players and one is doing very well in the MiLB after transferring out. I am not sure what went on but my son said the guy was a great ball player. @ years ago a SR walked off the field and quit. He was coaxed back but he was their top hitter and is now playing Independant.
My point is that it is not just about talent and the BB. You will go through the ups and downs just like in real life. Nothing remains constant.
Second point in response to the above:

The practice of budgeting your scholarships by shares of 11.7 only works at private universities, where the average cost of attendance is the cost of attendance each player faces.

At state universities, the availability of in-state tuition breaks skews things. Here in VA, for example, let's say UVA costs $16,000/year in state, $28,000 out of state, with 60% of students being in state. The average cost of attendance is therefore $20,800. That makes UVA's baseball scholarship limit 11.7 x $20,800 = $243,360.

If UVA then offers an in-state guy 50%, that costs the program $8,000. But with the $243,360 budget, you could get over 30 guys on half rides if they were all in-state players. Thus, if UVA focuses its recruiting in state, it can get over 15 scholarships' worth out of its supposed 11.7 cap. Every time they sign an out-of-state player, though, that player is proportionately more expensive to the program.

So if your son were offered 45% as an in-state student, that would still be a strong offer, but not necessarily one of the strongest offers on the team. There could be quite a few 70% guys on the roster in that scenario (though most of them would likely be pitchers, not his competition for playing time). On the other hand, if the 45% is to your son as an out-of-state student, that would indicate to me that, in their minds, they are making a very strong commitment to him, which is a good thing to know.

If you were in TX, FL or GA where there are state programs that allow good students to attend state U's with all tuition and fees paid, then you might have several guys given 40-45% baseball money who were attending school for free. That leaves a lot of the baseball budget available to be spread around pretty liberally to the other guys the coaches want. There's a lot of roster depth at U. of FL, U. of TX, UGA, Ga. Tech, etc., that other schools have trouble matching. On the flip side, there are guys riding the bench at those schools who maybe could've been starters at other places.

I will never understand why the NCAA allows state U's to have this advantage in sports (not just baseball), but it does. For you, though, this is just food for thought, something else to know in trying to decipher how your son stacks up in the eyes of the coaches at this particular school that made the offer.
quote:
If you were in TX, FL or GA where there are state programs that allow good students to attend state U's with all tuition and fees paid,


I keep reading this about Texas and am wondering why I am in the dark about this! Texas has had a college savings program where parents put in a specified amount and the state guarantees that tuition will be paid at any state school, even if rates go up, but I have not heard of any state program that pays all tuition and fees for good students. I would appreciate a link to that info if you have it. I have a high-school-aged daughter who just might qualify!
Last edited by Infield08
quote:
Originally posted by Infield08:

I keep reading this about Texas and am wondering why I am in the dark about this! Texas has had a college savings program where parents put in a specified amount and the state guarantees that tuition will be paid at any state school, even if rates go up, but I have not heard of any state program that pays all tuition and fees for good students. I would appreciate a link to that info if you have it. I have a high-school-aged daughter who just might qualify!



Infield, here in Georgia it is called the HOPE Scholarship. It is funded by the Georgia Lottery.
YGD,

In Texas, the State (not university) will pay the students first year of tuition only (no fees or books) to any Texas Public University if you are Valedictorian of your high school. The school will give scholarships based on class rank, SAT and ACT scores. Now obviously if your the Val, then you are ranked #1 in your class. In our case, tuition was free his freshman year, and he was also able to pick up some money based on test scores and class rank. What wasn't covered by these were covered thankfully by baseball money. This, his sophomore year, the tuition is no longer covered but as long as he maintains a certain GPA his other academic monies continue each year. Hopefully his baseball monies will continue as well, maybe even with a slight bump. Smile
Last edited by Danny Boydston
quote:
Originally posted by Infield08:
Yep, I know about Georgia and Florida doing this; I've just never heard about a similar program in Texas.

The Texas Guaranteed Tuition Plan (formerly the Texas Tomorrow Fund) was developed to cover the cost of tomorrow's college tuition and required fees at today's prices at Texas public colleges and universities. Plan benefits are protected by a constitutional guarantee from the State of Texas. NOTE: This plan is currently closed to new enrollment. There is also a NEWER on called the Texas Tuition Promise Fund. All of this information and more can be found at their website http://www.texastomorrowfunds.org/
This board is very informative. One issue I haven't seen discussed is what about after the first year. A lot of schools entice the player to sign only to cut scholly after the first year. With new rules your only option is Juco after 2nd year your captive unless D2,D3 or NAIA. With new rules after 2008 year 33% minimum leaves only 2.7 scholarships to divide for over minimum.
30 players @ 33% = 9

Schools offer a lot of that for early signers. IE: It looks like UGA will have to cut 10+ players off 2007 World Series roster with 18 incoming frosh (I know, thread exist about that).

Bottom line everyone is going to get bloody with new rules except Juco and MLB.

Parents do your due diligence.
quote:
With new rules after 2008 year 33% minimum leaves only 2.7 scholarships to divide for over minimum.
30 players @ 33% = 9


Canes13, I may be misinterpreting your comment, but I believe you said that after 2008 there will be a 33% minimum athletic scholarship for all players. To my knowledge, the 25% minimum mandated by the NCAA will hold true next year and the years after that. Also, as of next fall, D1 programs may give a maximum of 27 players an athletic scholarship (and fill their rosters up to a maximum size of 35 with those receiving other types of money and walk-ons receiving no money). Currently, the number is 30, but it will drop to 27 next year.

You are right in saying that prospects and parents must do their due diligence. Very important considering all the new changes.
Again more recent info:
Three major baseball rule changes passed this year by the NCAA Division I Board of Directors, taking effect Aug. 1, 2008, are aimed at enhancing academic performance:

* Student-athletes must achieve eligibility certification entering fall term in order to compete in the spring;
* Players who transfer from one Division I school to another must sit out a full year (similar to football, basketball and hockey); and
* Team roster size is limited to 35, with a maximum of 30 players sharing up to 11.7 total full scholarships in 2008-09, and a reduced max of 27 players in 2009-10 and beyond; and total financial aid packages (athletic and all other aid) to players must add up to no less than 25 percent of a full scholarship. (On Aug. 9, the Board substantially trimmed the minimum scholarship portion of the originally proposed financial aid rule change.)

Sorry for error.
Canes, thanks for providing the link. It explains some of the confusion surrounding this issue. The interview found by clicking on the link was published June 17, 2007. At this time, the 33% minimum was the proposed amount, but in an August 2007 NCAA vote, the minimum amount was reduced to 25%.

Using the 25% minimum, a college could grant 27 players the minimum, which would total 6.75 scholarships. The college would then have 4.95 scholarships left over (11.7 minus 6.75) to distribute as desired to some of its more choice prospects.

Btw, not trying to be nit-picky, just trying to clarify for the benefit of others who are reading this thread.
Last edited by Infield08
quote:
Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
Second point in response to the above:

The practice of budgeting your scholarships by shares of 11.7 only works at private universities, where the average cost of attendance is the cost of attendance each player faces.

At state universities, the availability of in-state tuition breaks skews things. Here in VA, for example, let's say UVA costs $16,000/year in state, $28,000 out of state, with 60% of students being in state. The average cost of attendance is therefore $20,800. That makes UVA's baseball scholarship limit 11.7 x $20,800 = $243,360.

If UVA then offers an in-state guy 50%, that costs the program $8,000. But with the $243,360 budget, you could get over 30 guys on half rides if they were all in-state players. Thus, if UVA focuses its recruiting in state, it can get over 15 scholarships' worth out of its supposed 11.7 cap. Every time they sign an out-of-state player, though, that player is proportionately more expensive to the program.

So if your son were offered 45% as an in-state student, that would still be a strong offer, but not necessarily one of the strongest offers on the team. There could be quite a few 70% guys on the roster in that scenario (though most of them would likely be pitchers, not his competition for playing time). On the other hand, if the 45% is to your son as an out-of-state student, that would indicate to me that, in their minds, they are making a very strong commitment to him, which is a good thing to know.

If you were in TX, FL or GA where there are state programs that allow good students to attend state U's with all tuition and fees paid, then you might have several guys given 40-45% baseball money who were attending school for free. That leaves a lot of the baseball budget available to be spread around pretty liberally to the other guys the coaches want. There's a lot of roster depth at U. of FL, U. of TX, UGA, Ga. Tech, etc., that other schools have trouble matching. On the flip side, there are guys riding the bench at those schools who maybe could've been starters at other places.

I will never understand why the NCAA allows state U's to have this advantage in sports (not just baseball), but it does. For you, though, this is just food for thought, something else to know in trying to decipher how your son stacks up in the eyes of the coaches at this particular school that made the offer.


I don't believe that ALL State schools figure it that way, do they?
Is it based on the "average cost" figured by the percentage of out-state students at the school?
Anyone know for sure?

The private schools do typically have more latitude with academic $$ because their scholarships are not always based on State standards. My older son, who did not play in college, could have gotten much more academic $$ at some private schools, but he chose a larger state school.
quote:
Originally posted by gitnby:
I don't believe that ALL State schools figure it that way, do they?
Is it based on the "average cost" figured by the percentage of out-state students at the school?
Anyone know for sure?

I don't know for sure. However, bear in mind that:

  • Schools may calculate equivalencies using either "actual cost or average cost of a full grant for all students at that institution." (15.5.3.2) However, the bylaw doesn't say whether the same method must be used for all athletes.

  • Colleges have to use federal accounting guidlines in determining cost of attendance. (15.02.2) Much financial aid (for all students) is funded by Uncle Sam, and he likes to make sure he is isn't funding more than actual costs, so the federal guidelines don't allow much creativity.

  • Cost of attendance can vary by more than just the difference between in or out of state tuition. For example, room and board can vary depending on whether the student lives at home, in a dorm, or off-campus.

So, state schools don't have to use the average method, but I'd guess that it is to their advantage to do so, and easier, so I suppose that most do use the average. I'm reasonably sure, based on the quoted phrasing above, that the average is calculated by adding up the actual costs for every student and dividing by the number of students.
Last edited by 3FingeredGlove

Add Reply

×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×