Grades. When do you pull the plug on your son's high school career

TPM posted:

playball2011 posted:

Did the low grades begin in HS or did he have issues in Middle School? Don't mean to knock Virginia but D's as a passing grade is ridicules. That's why 20% of students nationwide who enter college have to take remedial classes-usu English/Math. If your failing HS chances are you'll fail college too. Good advice here about getting tested, and tutors, which you seem to be on board with.

To be honest, after looking through your past posts I doubt very seriously you would pull your son from baseball. You have posted that sons hitting coach told him you were throwing money at baseball. We never heard what he meant exactly. Your son is only 14 and you've had him attend several camps and showcases already, correct? You stated you spoil him, assuming that's baseball related. 

So my ?  is-Does he have a true passion for the sport, or do you?  Seems if he really loved it he would put in the academic work in order to pass to play. He knows  he won't  get to play in college w those grades doesn't he? 

If it were my son and he had a 2.0 he would skip Freshman baseball and concentrate on academics. He can still play travel ball in Summer, and try out soph yr for school team if grades come up. When the season starts they will be practicing/playing almost everyday. When will he have time to fit schoolwork in? 

Hopefully your son gets grades up before Spring. What does coach say? 

 

Good observation.  Nicely stated.

Maybe stop indulging in showcases and spend the time and money on schoolwork and there might be a better outcome next marking period.

JMO 

Really, two local one day weekend showcases are the problem?  Also, the assertion that baseball is more important to me is so off base.  I know it's thrown around by people when a parent seems to be out in front of the kid but I've never witnessed that kind of parent.  My son drives the baseball train in my house and I am just the guy putting the coal in the engine.  Before he came along I spent my weekends flying a Cessna 172.  I haven't flown in years but I am already thinking about the time when my son moves on and I have the extra money again to get back into flying.     

I have always hoped that the hard work and success he has achieved in baseball will translate into hard work and success in academics.  I'm still hopeful but now recognize, with his recent grades, that I need to tweak a few things at home. 

too.tall posted:

TPM posted:

Good observation.  Nicely stated.

Maybe stop indulging in showcases and spend the time and money on schoolwork and there might be a better outcome next marking period.

JMO 

Really, two local one day weekend showcases are the problem?  Also, the assertion that baseball is more important to me is so off base.  I know it's thrown around by people when a parent seems to be out in front of the kid but I've never witnessed that kind of parent.  My son drives the baseball train in my house and I am just the guy putting the coal in the engine.  Before he came along I spent my weekends flying a Cessna 172.  I haven't flown in years but I am already thinking about the time when my son moves on and I have the extra money again to get back into flying.     

I have always hoped that the hard work and success he has achieved in baseball will translate into hard work and success in academics.  I'm still hopeful but now recognize, with his recent grades, that I need to tweak a few things at home. 

Too.Tall, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, no one is walking in your shoes and knows exactly what is going on.  I have seen first hand the driven parent bullying a kid to play baseball, it is particularly sad to watch what use to be fun for the kid turn into a job at 13u.

The issue of showcases and what age should attend has always been a hot topic.  Also the idea that the parents is gathering recruitment information for a 9th grade and below player is also a hot button issue.  Bottom line, you do what you want to do with your kid, but yes, people may comment.

With regard to the grade issue, I HIGHLY recommend you look past what is on the surface and get to the "WHY'S" of the problem.  It is very easy to say well he didn't hand in half his homework it is obvious he just doesn't care.  When the real reason could be far different than he just doesn't care. If you don't have a learning impairment it is nearly impossible to understand the "WHY'S" of someone who does.  What looks obvious on the surface could be something you have never even thought of.  Before you go and make any drastic changes I would encourage you to ask for some help on determining the "WHY'S". Once again, do what you want with your own kid, but it might be helpful to hear someone else's opinion who may know more about it than you do.  

Too.Tall - If you want some ammunition for a talk with  your son, please let him know that the first thing every college coach that has talked to my son has asked is "how are your grades".  Admittedly its a small number of coaches (about 5) at this point, but not one of them wanted to talk about baseball until they discussed his grades.

In addition I personally know of a 2017 LHP who has committed to a major baseball powerhouse/MLB factory in the south.  Thing is its his dream school but a little bit of a reach for him academically.  The coach has provided him with exactly what he needs for his GPA and ACT score.  These numbers are at the bottom of the level they admit.  He has explained to him that this is the minimum the school allows and if he falls below those numbers there is nothing the coach can do to get him through the admissions process.  As he was told "you are a student athlete, not an athlete student".  A 2.0 with a an 18 on an ACT is not going to get him into this school.  Im sure your son would not want to have to waste an opportunity like this due to his grades. 

Too Tall,

Don't take offense. But you should be the one driving the train.

You make the rules. You came here concerned about gades.  You need to take control. A ninth grader doesn't need to attend showcases.

JMO

By driving the train I meant he determines whether or not he plays baseball, how hard he works, whether to attend a camp and which one, which travel team he want to be on, which bat he swings and anything related to the sport.  He's well beyond needing me for those things.   He's been with the same travel team for two years because that's what he wants.  The showcases (more like camps) were intended to show him the competition and allow him to see how hard he needs to work to play at the college level.  He has been the youngest player at both events.  I know my kid and he thrives on that.  The coaches like him and the message was also, no grades no college ball.  These are recent camps/showcases so the message is still traveling through the 14 year old brain.  This is a marathon and not a sprint.  I am trying to make baseball pay off for him in terms of motivation and staying out of trouble.  He has great people working with him and he is a great kid.  The grades will come along as well. 

The point of this post was to get handle on what others would do and at what point would they pull their kid out of baseball due to poor grades.  I've enjoyed the opinions.

Some bright enough kids are woefully under motivated in high school.  Some high schools are very focused on the high achieving kids, high test scores. They  love their 4.x gpa having students, their multiple AP taking ones, their joiners and strivers with impressive hs resumes. They devote  much of their resources to these students, including  their best most accomplished teachers.  If you are the parent of such a student you can afford to lay back a bit and cheer.

But the less motivated and/or able students tend to fall through the cracks. If you are a parent of one of those kids you have to be a powerful advocate and heavily invested.   (Often these students come from disadvantaged  backgrounds and  the parents are not in position to be heavily involved or powerful advocates for their students.  So the schools are not often enough held to task.  But that is another issue.)

Our son fell into the less motivated class.  Struggled like heck all through junior high and high school, especially in science and math.   It looked really bleak for his college prospects for awhile.  The one thing that motivated him was his great devotion to baseball and his intense desire to keep playing.  

But that was not enough.  Junior year he enrolled in a special program offered through the school focused on multimedia art and design.  He actually really loved it for the most part and turned out to have quite a bit of talent for it.  He is now majoring in multimedia design in college.

point is.  So many kids go through HS taking mostly courses that they don't enjoy because of the pressure to follow a certain cookie cutter path to success.  But if they are not invested or if that isn't where their true talents lie that can be a bad mix.

you need to help your son understand the stakes,  to be sure.  But if there are any alternative paths open to him in his present school for kids who may not fit the standard mold, you need to help him think about those too.

i really don't think our son would have survived High School if not for being offered an alternative way of succeeding.

He may enjoy baseball but bottom line is he will never play in college w 2.0

playing/taking classes there is very hard. My son has seen many teammates get called into coaches office to discuss academic issues. 

sounds like low grades are a new thing, never heard if it was difficult classes or not turning in homework, etc.

you r very invested in baseball w showcases, hitting lessons, and even said you have paid $85 wk on P coach. Not sure if son is still doing those things, which take away from academic time. You also said he's starting weighted ball arm program and even asked about working out w him in a fitness program. Just my opinion but it sounds like baseball is a big time comittment .  Sounds like he is being rewarded w baseball extras without facing consequences for academic issues.

good news is that he is still young and has time to turn things around. You already have tutor lined up and are taking things seriously by talking w teachers/counselors. Not sure what advice you  were looking for since it was very doubtful you would actually pull  baseball. 

While you figure out if the poor grades are a learning disability, apathy, HS shock, or lack of ability, you could take a middle ground on the baseball activities: reduce the outside baseball to the minimum needed to develop and advance his skills and skip the "luxuries."

Showcases and travel ball, IMO, aren't the core of developing baseball skills and can be eliminated without any effect on his HS or thereafter baseball  (as someone pointed out a 2.0 will not get him to college ball).  Stick with the outside individual instruction - that moves his skill development forward without permanently effecting his chances of playing HS and gives you breathing room to address the grades.  

If he is leaving no stone unturned in academics and still struggles, removing baseball will do nothing to accomplish your/his academic goals. So, until you decide if he is leaving no stone unturned, reduce - but do not eliminate - some non-critical baseball stuff.

TooTall,

In another topic entitled how to destroy your child's athletic future you mentioned something that referenced that you spent your $$ on camps and showcases.  You didn't make it sound like it was one or two.

Another thing I saw you posted was that your son was adopted. Just want you to know that my neice was adopted from Russia. The birth mother took drugs while pregnant. With this knowledge she was tested young and the determined she has quite a few issues.  She is in middle school and she has a special teacher that works alongside of her in class.  This has been going on for years. After middle school she will be on her own. Its not to late to ask for help considering the circumstances.

Just to let you know my neice is a multi talented singer and dancer and attends theater classes. Her dream is to be an actor and singer.  

I hope the above helps.

Too Tall,

My son struggled miserably during his freshman year. Terrible on tests, didn't always turn in his homework. The entire academic year was a battle in which he was losing. I had a tutor for him and also encouraged him to seek extra help, which he rarely did. 

About halfway through the year, while going over some things with him before a test (yes, I dug my hands in there with him to try and identify the problem), I realized he was having a legitimate issue comprehending some parts of what he was reading. The school had apparently saw the same thing at that time. So they tested him and found that he has a processing issue. It's not a big thing, but he had to learn how to better process the information so that he could understand it. When we met with the Dean, he expressed his feelings to her, he told her how he felt stupid for not being able to achieve what others can do so easily. She actually told me to not pull him from baseball, as that was the only area in his life at which he was successful. I see now that she was right. 

Sophomore year went better, but to a certain extent he fought against what they were trying to help him with. Why?  Because he felt that it wasn't fair that he had to put extra time into school that others did not have to. 

Now it's junior year, and finally... finally, the kid has embraced the challenge in front of him and finished the first semester with a 3.25 GPA. I know, nothing exciting, right?  To me it was. I see the effort that he's putting in on a daily basis and it means more to me than any baseball achievement that he's ever had. 

He'll play in college for sure. But he's focused on trying to find the right academic school, where he can continue to receive help when it's needed, and then match that up with baseball. He's currently speaking with D1 and D2 coaches, so we'll see how things shake out for him after this school year and when he takes the ACT. 

He's far from a stupid kid. He just had to understand for himself that he learns differently then most others.

I have no idea where baseball will take him in life. But I do know it will help him get into a better school then he could have on his own.  And that's the most important thing to me. 

Best of luck to you and the boy Too Tall. Don't give up on him. 

My sons struggled their HS freshman year like many do. They were fortunate to attend a nationally recognized charter school which made it even tougher. We always told them that if they received a failing notice that the sport for that season would be done. They played JV and Varsity basketball that year and then started on the Varsity baseball team. As baseball season progressed, the grades got worse and worse to the point that failing notices seemed imminent. We had them talk to the coach about it, talk with their teachers, and ultimately they were able to turn things around just in the nick of time. I just asked them about it now that they're 22 years old and the threat of having to quit baseball did indeed have a positive impact on them getting their act together. It worked for us because they knew we were serious and it wasn't an empty threat. We also got them outside help with study skills their sophomore year (recommended by the school). It was never an issue after that. Ultimately you'll have to decide what will work for your son as they are all different. 

With regard to GPA, you now need a 2.3 high school GPA to be academically eligible to participate in a sport your college freshman year. And this is for core courses only like math, science, etc., so that A in Phys Ed doesn't help your GPA. If your son seriously wants to play college baseball, now would be the time to review the NCAA requirements so you both understand what's required because later might be too late.

You've received lots of good advice about making sure there are no other issues affecting his ability to learn and now is the time to address them if they exist. The good thing is that if he can show that he is responding to the challenge and his GPA is improving enough every year, colleges will consider that when looking at his overall grades. I once read on this site that coaches expect an athlete's GPA to drop between 0.5 and 1.0 points their freshman year in college so they're not going to take a chance on wasting scholarship money on a borderline student. I can personally attest, as can others on here, to the fact that good (not necessarily great) grades can open a lot of athletic doors, especially ones that present themselves unexpectedly.

Good luck to you and your son!

too.tall posted:

Where is the bottom line?  I have a 2019 who is on the bubble.  I would hate to pull him from baseball because he loves it and is very good but he is not living up to his end of the deal.  I'm curious how others have handled this.  My son has put tremendous effort into baseball but we all know that in the end, baseball is a game.  He needs the grades to play in college and right now he's lucky to scratch out a 2.0. 

I wouldn't take baseball away. Sports are good for kids. I would have a sit down one on one "come to Jesus" (as the saying goes) meeting with him. Take away everything else. Call them distractions he has to earn the right to participate. I would tell him if he wants me to invest in training and the best travel teams I want to see commitment to academics. Otherwise, go play Legion or whatever ball.

For a four year college he needs to get a 3.0 or be a top shelf stud. Otherwise he will have to go the JuCo route. Don't let him take the easy way out from the beginning. But use JuCo as a fall back. Some kids "wake up" later than others.

Bolts-Coach-PR posted:

It would take care of it self at our school... Pretty sure anything below 2.5 would make a player ineligible...

Our high school tracked their own eligibility every week. Fail to pass in homework and you're ineligible until it's done. The school also had higher gpa standards than the state. I think it was 2.5. Get arrested, ineligible for ninety days. I didn't like the no tolerance aspect of this. But no one arrested was ever found not guilty. It was usually about alcohol. There were plea bargains with charges dropped for community service.

joes87 posted:

Don't really want to cross over into the "telling you how to parent thing", but Coach posted something that is important.  Does you HS have an online program that lets you check on his grades?  I know our districts system text's my wife whenever a new "non homework" grade is added as well as when his grades fall below a certain threshold.  I would hate to be a kid these days, no getting away with blowing off homework.  If you are not taking advantage of this kind of system I would suggest you do.

Many schools now have online access for parents. They have access to homework done, grades, attendance and discipline.

I'm torn on this topic but I think you have to understand your child.  I think MidloDad offers a strong case for not pulling athletics due to grades.  He changed my mind on this topic years ago, and I think it is the right path. 

If drugs, alcohol, behavioral issues are involved that is a different matter.  Everybody's kid is different with different motivations, capabilities, and potential.  They have strengths and weaknesses just like adults.  Depriving them of something that gives them a positive feeling about high school is a slippery slope.  I'm all for taking away privileges like car, TV, phone and free time.  But I would think really hard (and twice) about taking away something special like high school baseball....it is something that builds character, confidence and identity.  Trust me, I've thought long and hard on this over the years.  Being a parent is the toughest job description available.  You have to know your kid to know what pushes his buttons.

Good luck, and always JMO.

lhprhp posted:

My sons struggled their HS freshman year like many do. They were fortunate to attend a nationally recognized charter school which made it even tougher. We always told them that if they received a failing notice that the sport for that season would be done. They played JV and Varsity basketball that year and then started on the Varsity baseball team. As baseball season progressed, the grades got worse and worse to the point that failing notices seemed imminent. We had them talk to the coach about it, talk with their teachers, and ultimately they were able to turn things around just in the nick of time. I just asked them about it now that they're 22 years old and the threat of having to quit baseball did indeed have a positive impact on them getting their act together. It worked for us because they knew we were serious and it wasn't an empty threat. We also got them outside help with study skills their sophomore year (recommended by the school). It was never an issue after that. Ultimately you'll have to decide what will work for your son as they are all different. 

With regard to GPA, you now need a 2.3 high school GPA to be academically eligible to participate in a sport your college freshman year. And this is for core courses only like math, science, etc., so that A in Phys Ed doesn't help your GPA. If your son seriously wants to play college baseball, now would be the time to review the NCAA requirements so you both understand what's required because later might be too late.

You've received lots of good advice about making sure there are no other issues affecting his ability to learn and now is the time to address them if they exist. The good thing is that if he can show that he is responding to the challenge and his GPA is improving enough every year, colleges will consider that when looking at his overall grades. I once read on this site that coaches expect an athlete's GPA to drop between 0.5 and 1.0 points their freshman year in college so they're not going to take a chance on wasting scholarship money on a borderline student. I can personally attest, as can others on here, to the fact that good (not necessarily great) grades can open a lot of athletic doors, especially ones that present themselves unexpectedly.

Good luck to you and your son!

Very good post and the actual experience relayed is very much appreciated.

Just want to add, as a parent I never, ever threaten my kid with anything I won't follow through with and do.

It seems like most folks on here have kids that are excellent students.  Truth is, there are many kids that struggle academically for many different reasons.  Some get by because sports are so important to them.  Some work hard and manage C's, other don't work at all and get A's.

No way of knowing which type student is involved here, but for some it is nearly impossible to maintain a 3. GPA.  You know what, there is still a place for them in baseball and in college.

I think taking away baseball, if it is real important to him, could turn that 2 point GPA into something even lower.  Then again, maybe it would cause him to improve.

PGstaff, pretty sure there is a natural posting bias.  Same as other topics.  Higher GPA's tend to get mentioned more in posts while other parents are generally quiet if there son has a lower GPA.  Trust me, plenty of parents of students read the board that have sons that have to work to get even moderately good grades.

I have a tough time believing that every healthy student doesn't have the capability to pull off a 3.0 in HS.  Obviously if a kid has a mental disability than that is different.  

Now the willingness to do it is a different story.  Mentally show up and listen.  Turn in your assignments = 3.0 

I agree.  

But some can do the 3.0 with 30 minutes studying every now and then, others will need several hours a day.

I think a lot has to do with the subject material, unless there is a learning disability,  a 3.0 can be achieved with basic courses.  Of course that will limit college opportunities, but if the student isn't inclined to apply themselves they may never make the required grades in college.

I agree that it has a lot to do with subject material and of course that's coupled with the students ability to learn AND to manage their time.

My younger son is one of those who has to work really hard to get good grades.  It just doesn't come easy for him.  But what's really been his two biggest assets is his work ethic and his time management skills.  Being of a determined and disciplined mind set helps too.   He found some of the college courses to be much, much harder than expected and than anything he had in HS and the extra study time required was difficult when trying to do baseball too.  Counselors helped him with scheduling the harder classes for during the off season.  But as a student-athlete, the "off season" doesn't really provide much "off" time.

real green posted:

I have a tough time believing that every healthy student doesn't have the capability to pull off a 3.0 in HS.  Obviously if a kid has a mental disability than that is different.  

Now the willingness to do it is a different story.  Mentally show up and listen.  Turn in your assignments = 3.0 

I agree.  My wife teaches math/science in high school and the amount of kids that don't try is astounding.  Cheating is rampant, even among the honor roll kids. 

Those same kids will have a rough time the 1st year in college.