Great read for those trying to figure out the whole quagmire of 11.7 scholarships, funding college, HOPE programs, etc. Has view from coaches, players, programs and NCAA.
http://www.baseballamerica.com...#u4oyUw6xboSK9DhD.97
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Interesting read. What I'm curious about is why there is only 11.7 scholarships available to a baseball team? What was the impetus for the change and how did they come up with that specific number?
Thanks for posting the article. There's a lot to digest on the financial side of things.
It's interesting that players receiving need based assistance at the private schools like Vandy aren't also on athletic scholarship. I assume that frees up more baseball scholarship money. Is that right?
Texas 2 Sons posted:Interesting read. What I'm curious about is why there is only 11.7 scholarships available to a baseball team? What was the impetus for the change and how did they come up with that specific number?
The 11.7 number is the result of an across the board scholarship cut of 10% back in 1991. At the time, baseball had 13.
As usual, I tend to just follow the money. If College Baseball became as popular as NCAA Football, or even close to it, every D1 would offer full rides to 25-30 players per roster.
PlayWithEffort posted:It's interesting that players receiving need based assistance at the private schools like Vandy aren't also on athletic scholarship. I assume that frees up more baseball scholarship money. Is that right?
As I understand it, need-based aid from private sources (like at Vandy) are still counted against the team's 11.7. So you can't have a team full of low income kids all getting 100% need-based aid. However, the "lottery state" aid is from the state and is exempt from the counters (a definite advantage over states without those aid programs).
Texas 2 Sons posted:Interesting read. What I'm curious about is why there is only 11.7 scholarships available to a baseball team? What was the impetus for the change and how did they come up with that specific number?
Title IX
I guess when college baseball has 100,000+ people show up for game day against a rival team, the players will start getting full rides like the 84(give or take one right?) scholarships given to Div 1 football.
Not fair but understandable. LOL. Hell a kid gets one who may NEVER see the playing field!
So why would a middle class GA kid (for example) with a 3.5 GPA leave and play in another state??
Kevin A posted:I guess when college baseball has 100,000+ people show up for game day against a rival team, the players will start getting full rides like the 84(give or take one right?) scholarships given to Div 1 football.
7 of the 128 FBS teams averaged 100,000 or more last year. 28 teams averaged less than 20,000, but they can still fund those 85 scholarships if want to. It's a crazy system.
stayfocused posted:So why would a middle class GA kid (for example) with a 3.5 GPA leave and play in another state??
Take a look at the UGA roster and that will answer your question.
BOF posted:stayfocused posted:So why would a middle class GA kid (for example) with a 3.5 GPA leave and play in another state??
Take a look at the UGA roster and that will answer your question.
Hey, it's not all Georgia kids. I mean, they have that California kid, and that Florida kid! LOL A couple years ago I pulled up the UCLA and Cal rosters and they were 100% California kids for the same reason -- it's less expensive.
2019Dad posted:BOF posted:stayfocused posted:So why would a middle class GA kid (for example) with a 3.5 GPA leave and play in another state??
Take a look at the UGA roster and that will answer your question.
Hey, it's not all Georgia kids. I mean, they have that California kid, and that Florida kid! LOL A couple years ago I pulled up the UCLA and Cal rosters and they were 100% California kids for the same reason -- it's less expensive.
I think all the public D1s in GA are similar in that regard (Kennesaw at 100% last year). You do have to maintain a 3.0 to keep getting the scholarship.
Funny, I just saw two PA kids commit to UGA recently and it struck me as unusual.
MidAtlanticDad posted:PlayWithEffort posted:It's interesting that players receiving need based assistance at the private schools like Vandy aren't also on athletic scholarship. I assume that frees up more baseball scholarship money. Is that right?
As I understand it, need-based aid from private sources (like at Vandy) are still counted against the team's 11.7. So you can't have a team full of low income kids all getting 100% need-based aid. However, the "lottery state" aid is from the state and is exempt from the counters (a definite advantage over states without those aid programs).
Is this true? I always understood Vanderbilt and similar schools had an advantage as they were often able to stack smaller athletic scholarships and need based scholarships with the caveat that the need based scholarship was available to all students and therefore did not meet the test to be counted against the 11.7. Stanford also comes to mind.
MidAtlanticDad posted:2019Dad posted:BOF posted:stayfocused posted:So why would a middle class GA kid (for example) with a 3.5 GPA leave and play in another state??
Take a look at the UGA roster and that will answer your question.
Hey, it's not all Georgia kids. I mean, they have that California kid, and that Florida kid! LOL A couple years ago I pulled up the UCLA and Cal rosters and they were 100% California kids for the same reason -- it's less expensive.
I think all the public D1s in GA are similar in that regard (Kennesaw at 100% last year). You do have to maintain a 3.0 to keep getting the scholarship.
Funny, I just saw two PA kids commit to UGA recently and it struck me as unusual.
Correct, HOPE scholarship (and there are two levels, Zell Miller and regular HOPE) require that you maintain a minimum GPA to continue to receive HOPE.
Interestingly, most of the GA schools will make their offer as "we'll cover $XX after HOPE". HOPE only covers a percentage of tuition (Zell Miller covers 100% of tuition), but not housing, food, fees, etc., so it's not a full academic ride. Also, only 20% of athletes are able to maintain HOPE during their attendance, so the vast majority lose that and that loss must be paid by the student.
What this allows GA schools to do is stretch their athletic money. So a typical offer for a well regarded prospect might be to offer 100% tuition after HOPE, all room and books. So for an in-state student, that will total about $8,500 in scholarship dollars and leave about $7,000 - $8,000 for the student to pay. Now with HOPE covering about $3,400 of the tuition, losing that drives the cost to the family of more than $10,000 out of pocket.
What this does is mask that the athletic offer is "tame" vs some out of state offers and frees up more money for the schools to go after out of state or load up on pitching with offers that aren't contingent on maintaining an academic minimum.
My son received offers from 3 schools in GA and all three began with "we'll cover xxxxx after HOPE".
He's currently attending out of state, paying less than he would have in-state with no requirement to maintain a minimum GPA to retain any academic money. His HOPE eligibility also remains intact for 10 years if he should ever want to attend an in-state school.
I have another son attending in-state on HOPE (non-athlete, and one of the schools that offered my baseball playing son) and has reaped the benefits of HOPE into his Sr. year, so it's a tremendous benefit, but parents need to ensure that they normalize all offers, in-state and out of state, and back out HOPE in the comparison so they won't get underwater when their kid is part of the 80%.
2017LHPscrewball posted:MidAtlanticDad posted:PlayWithEffort posted:It's interesting that players receiving need based assistance at the private schools like Vandy aren't also on athletic scholarship. I assume that frees up more baseball scholarship money. Is that right?
As I understand it, need-based aid from private sources (like at Vandy) are still counted against the team's 11.7. So you can't have a team full of low income kids all getting 100% need-based aid. However, the "lottery state" aid is from the state and is exempt from the counters (a definite advantage over states without those aid programs).
Is this true? I always understood Vanderbilt and similar schools had an advantage as they were often able to stack smaller athletic scholarships and need based scholarships with the caveat that the need based scholarship was available to all students and therefore did not meet the test to be counted against the 11.7. Stanford also comes to mind.
There are schools out there that definitely have an advantage. Here are 3 Top programs in baseball committs:
2017- 14 15 18
2018- 12 13 23
2019- 12 14 17
One is Vandy, TCU, and Florida. Care to guess which one is Vandy?
2017LHPscrewball posted:MidAtlanticDad posted:PlayWithEffort posted:It's interesting that players receiving need based assistance at the private schools like Vandy aren't also on athletic scholarship. I assume that frees up more baseball scholarship money. Is that right?
As I understand it, need-based aid from private sources (like at Vandy) are still counted against the team's 11.7. So you can't have a team full of low income kids all getting 100% need-based aid. However, the "lottery state" aid is from the state and is exempt from the counters (a definite advantage over states without those aid programs).
Is this true? I always understood Vanderbilt and similar schools had an advantage as they were often able to stack smaller athletic scholarships and need based scholarships with the caveat that the need based scholarship was available to all students and therefore did not meet the test to be counted against the 11.7. Stanford also comes to mind.
I read 15.02.4 again. If the student athlete is getting any athletic money, then s/he is a counter. If only getting institutional aid, then not a counter. Student athletes who receive athletic money can also receive federal/state need-based aid without that aid counting against the team's 11.7.
MidAtlanticDad posted:2017LHPscrewball posted:MidAtlanticDad posted:PlayWithEffort posted:It's interesting that players receiving need based assistance at the private schools like Vandy aren't also on athletic scholarship. I assume that frees up more baseball scholarship money. Is that right?
As I understand it, need-based aid from private sources (like at Vandy) are still counted against the team's 11.7. So you can't have a team full of low income kids all getting 100% need-based aid. However, the "lottery state" aid is from the state and is exempt from the counters (a definite advantage over states without those aid programs).
Is this true? I always understood Vanderbilt and similar schools had an advantage as they were often able to stack smaller athletic scholarships and need based scholarships with the caveat that the need based scholarship was available to all students and therefore did not meet the test to be counted against the 11.7. Stanford also comes to mind.
I read 15.02.4 again. If the student athlete is getting any athletic money, then s/he is a counter. If only getting institutional aid, then not a counter. Student athletes who receive athletic money can also receive federal/state need-based aid without that aid counting against the team's 11.7.
you nailed Vandy's "secret".
Texas 2 Sons posted:2017LHPscrewball posted:MidAtlanticDad posted:PlayWithEffort posted:It's interesting that players receiving need based assistance at the private schools like Vandy aren't also on athletic scholarship. I assume that frees up more baseball scholarship money. Is that right?
As I understand it, need-based aid from private sources (like at Vandy) are still counted against the team's 11.7. So you can't have a team full of low income kids all getting 100% need-based aid. However, the "lottery state" aid is from the state and is exempt from the counters (a definite advantage over states without those aid programs).
Is this true? I always understood Vanderbilt and similar schools had an advantage as they were often able to stack smaller athletic scholarships and need based scholarships with the caveat that the need based scholarship was available to all students and therefore did not meet the test to be counted against the 11.7. Stanford also comes to mind.
There are schools out there that definitely have an advantage. Here are 3 Top programs in baseball committs:
2017- 14 15 18
2018- 12 13 23
2019- 12 14 17
One is Vandy, TCU, and Florida. Care to guess which one is Vandy?
Almost 20 a year for a school that cost $63k a year..that's a pretty big endowment account they're pulling from!
Texas 2 Sons posted:Texas 2 Sons posted:2017LHPscrewball posted:MidAtlanticDad posted:PlayWithEffort posted:It's interesting that players receiving need based assistance at the private schools like Vandy aren't also on athletic scholarship. I assume that frees up more baseball scholarship money. Is that right?
As I understand it, need-based aid from private sources (like at Vandy) are still counted against the team's 11.7. So you can't have a team full of low income kids all getting 100% need-based aid. However, the "lottery state" aid is from the state and is exempt from the counters (a definite advantage over states without those aid programs).
Is this true? I always understood Vanderbilt and similar schools had an advantage as they were often able to stack smaller athletic scholarships and need based scholarships with the caveat that the need based scholarship was available to all students and therefore did not meet the test to be counted against the 11.7. Stanford also comes to mind.
There are schools out there that definitely have an advantage. Here are 3 Top programs in baseball committs:
2017- 14 15 18
2018- 12 13 23
2019- 12 14 17
One is Vandy, TCU, and Florida. Care to guess which one is Vandy?
Almost 20 a year for a school that cost $63k a year..that's a pretty big endowment account they're pulling from!
Current Vandy endowment is $3.882 Billion
TCU is $1.514 Billion
UF is $1.461 Billion
(but they ain't no Harvard at $37.6 Billion, or Yale, $25.41 Billion)
Interestingly, Stanford's endowment is $22.4 Billion and Virginia's is $7.619 Billion, the two schools most often mentioned as having a recruiting advantage like Vandy when this topic comes up.
Of course the big advantage with that large endowment and how it's spent is that Vandy & Stanford are both private and answer to a different power (as is TCU)
Even within the private world, there are schools that have the ability to give more than others. Not sure how that's possible, but it is. Both TCU and Baylor complain that they are handicapped compared to Vandy and Stanford. Even a small school like DBU can offer more than TCU and Baylor.