Bear I don't think a red flag matters since he is in his final year and got a nice $2000 increse last year his scholly which was already large. His coach told him he got it because of his work ethic, leadership and performance. We never asked for it.He also is a pitching instructor , a waiter boy as I call him and has been asked by his new P Coach to be a student asst coach if he attends grad school.
Bear if you want to wave red flags work for a construction crew. I think a 22 yo young man deserves to take the summer off if he wants. He has played all year for most of his teen years. He is not interested in pro ball and never has been.
Believe it or not, many GM's have directed the
Scouting Supervisor to have their scouting staff ask THE question.
In the last several years, many within the scouting disciplines are simply shortening their lists of prospects via the GM 'training method'
THE question be: 'Do you want to play pro ball?'
It does allow each other from wasting each other's busy schedules.
I have received several phone calls two to three years later (and from 24-26 y/o who stayed away from the field) and are now seeking opportunities.
And are steered toward independent baseball.
And the one week, one at bat, 1/3 inning shot before released. On other occassions, I hear the heroics of a past prospect playing slow-pitch.
More recently, I watched in disbelief last spring, a big league arm, playing CF in May-June in an area amateur baseball 'beer' league. Of course he was rehabbing from TJ, eight months earlier. The local HS and now GM Cashman signed him last summer(and for a song)...okay health insurance. And yes, I was not able to tell the big leaguer who ask me, 'Get on with you life'.
There is something for everybody in baseball!
Scouting Supervisor to have their scouting staff ask THE question.
In the last several years, many within the scouting disciplines are simply shortening their lists of prospects via the GM 'training method'
THE question be: 'Do you want to play pro ball?'
It does allow each other from wasting each other's busy schedules.
I have received several phone calls two to three years later (and from 24-26 y/o who stayed away from the field) and are now seeking opportunities.
And are steered toward independent baseball.
And the one week, one at bat, 1/3 inning shot before released. On other occassions, I hear the heroics of a past prospect playing slow-pitch.
More recently, I watched in disbelief last spring, a big league arm, playing CF in May-June in an area amateur baseball 'beer' league. Of course he was rehabbing from TJ, eight months earlier. The local HS and now GM Cashman signed him last summer(and for a song)...okay health insurance. And yes, I was not able to tell the big leaguer who ask me, 'Get on with you life'.
There is something for everybody in baseball!
Bear I have been around scouts for years and know how they think and what they look for. I live about 20 mins from UB. We hold MLB tryouts evry year. I mostly go on my own and talk to the scouts I have know over the years. My son's district allstar team had a scout on its coaching staff. Almost all the elite teams have active MLB scouts who run them. My son has been followed since he was 15 and told by many he has MLB talent. Held back at tryouts etc. He has only a passing interest in playing beyond college. I don't know if you are aware of The Intercounty BB senior league here but it is full of college,ex pros etc. He knows how hard it is to make it in MLB. I am not talking about getting drafted but actually becoming an everyday player.
He has a standing offer to play independant ball from a coach who used to coach a pro team here. He actually threw bull pens with them after the P coach saw him just throwing a ball in the outfield in an AAA game. That P coach was Ron Davis former MLB M reliever with the Yanks. He had a standing invite to throw bull pens with him on their home bull pen days. He also said he had MLB talent. Ron's son pitched at Ariz State and he coaches a team in Ariz.
So because he prefers to stay in Charleston with his friends, workout and instruct at a BB camp he throws up a red flag.
I would agree that there is lots of opporuities in BB. He is thinmking of taking his PHD to becaoem a prof so he can stay around BB and college life. For some strange reason he loves it.
He has a standing offer to play independant ball from a coach who used to coach a pro team here. He actually threw bull pens with them after the P coach saw him just throwing a ball in the outfield in an AAA game. That P coach was Ron Davis former MLB M reliever with the Yanks. He had a standing invite to throw bull pens with him on their home bull pen days. He also said he had MLB talent. Ron's son pitched at Ariz State and he coaches a team in Ariz.
So because he prefers to stay in Charleston with his friends, workout and instruct at a BB camp he throws up a red flag.
I would agree that there is lots of opporuities in BB. He is thinmking of taking his PHD to becaoem a prof so he can stay around BB and college life. For some strange reason he loves it.
BHD,
My post was inquiry same as others as to why that was relevant to this thread.
There was nothing said negative about your son in this thread.
My post was inquiry same as others as to why that was relevant to this thread.
There was nothing said negative about your son in this thread.
quote:Originally posted by TPM:
BHD,
My post was inquiry same as others as to why that was relevant to this thread.
There was nothing said negative about your son in this thread.
I still have not figured how any of his stories are relevant to this thread
This thread was thrown way off kilter from the point of the origial post and from the point of view of answering rlcosta's question about getting his D3 player in the CPL at this late point in time.
quote:Originally posted by ClevelandDad:quote:Originally posted by TPM:
BHD,
My post was inquiry same as others as to why that was relevant to this thread.
There was nothing said negative about your son in this thread.
I still have not figured how any of his stories are relevant to this thread
This thread was thrown way off kilter from the point of the origial post and from the point of view of answering rlcosta's question about getting his D3 player in the CPL at this late point in time.
CD,
Don't feel badly, I haven't figured it out either.
Bobblehead: Got it. Good luck to your son.
....and among a few perceived gate keepers seeking to build credibility yet rarely demonstrating 'know when to challenge, when to support'.
JT: Interesting response. Not sure why. Since Gibson's Martinsville CPL 2008 summer club climbed from the bottom four 1st half to the bottom six overall of a 14 team league.
Thus "...The 2008 Martinsville Mustangs, finished near the bottom of the 14 CPL teams!
Happy Holidays
Bear
....and among a few perceived gate keepers seeking to build credibility yet rarely demonstrating 'know when to challenge, when to support'.
JT: Interesting response. Not sure why. Since Gibson's Martinsville CPL 2008 summer club climbed from the bottom four 1st half to the bottom six overall of a 14 team league.
Thus "...The 2008 Martinsville Mustangs, finished near the bottom of the 14 CPL teams!
Happy Holidays
Bear
quote:....and among a few perceived gate keepers seeking to build credibility yet rarely demonstrating 'know when to challenge, when to support'.
It would be awfully nice if people would follow their own advice. In this thread alone we have red flags, a jab at moderators, and twice saying something negative about JT's team. It would help not to throw darts all the time.
Bear...you are 100% correct about last year's Mustangs. However, they did have a 15-12 2nd half record, but yes...was in the bottom half of the overall standings.
Although Gibson HAS been moderately successful in building teams with his philosophy, he was hindered in 2008 as the city (which owns the team) decided VERY LATE in 2007 as to whether or not to even field a club for 08. Whether you are building with D1 or D2 guys...it is VERY tough to recruit when you don't even know if your team will be in existence.
2008 was simply an anomaly...the 2007 team went deep in the playoffs...and I suspect the 2009 team will regain the competitiveness.
Although Gibson HAS been moderately successful in building teams with his philosophy, he was hindered in 2008 as the city (which owns the team) decided VERY LATE in 2007 as to whether or not to even field a club for 08. Whether you are building with D1 or D2 guys...it is VERY tough to recruit when you don't even know if your team will be in existence.
2008 was simply an anomaly...the 2007 team went deep in the playoffs...and I suspect the 2009 team will regain the competitiveness.
quote:Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
[QUOTE]....and among a few perceived gate keepers seeking to build credibility yet rarely demonstrating 'know when to challenge, when to support'.
In my responses with Bobblehead, his experiences
are very aware of what red flags are, and what they are not. And which for 99% of baseball men, would agree are NOT as you say, darts.
My responses to JT, who I enjoyed meeting (a long time ago, and can't remember when or where) and have had several email exchanges.....is keenly aware there is zero intention with my view point
and is NOT negative and NOT, as you say, dart throwing.
As for C-Dad ...... not my point of view.
However, your own response reveals your perception may be your own reality. And for the record, in case you wanted to know, I speak seven languages. But thanks.... And good luck to your boy!
JT, my net around here say Gibson needs a GM.
What do you think?
Yes...I had the pleasure of meeting Bear years ago before his heart attack...met him at DeMatha HS when his son's team was finishing practice at my team at UNCA was fixin' to practice (they used the school for a college hoops practice). Gosh...that must have been 11 years ago!
A number of things:
1. This thread is very interesting overall.
2. I have very much enjoyed reading about Bobblehead's experiences, even if they might belong in their own thread. (By the way, Ron Davis is a good friend and if he said BH's son has MLB talent, then I believe it. Ron is a very frank and very talented evaluator and observer of talent. He also is a gifted coach).
3. There are all sorts of paths to a summer league team and I would not lot the experience of others deter me at all. I placed my son on a Northwoods team myself (with help from some scouts and approval of his college coaches). By the time I was done with my requests, he had offers from two Northwoods team and an offer from a New England team along with one from a Great Lakes team and another from a Jayhawk team. I was better at it than I had anticipated. The team his coaches had placed him with originally was in the Clark Griffith League.
4. It is interesting how this all works out. My middle son this summer played in a collegiate league with D1 players from across the nation. He played with an old high school teammate (and good friend)who is at Duke. What is interesting about this is that my son had not played baseball since high school (he is in his senior year at Arizona State with a full academic scholarship). He went out with the intention only to have fun, which he did. And he literally was better than probably half -- or almost half -- the college players in the league and was in the lineup every game.
You just never know, but if you don't ask, you might not get the chance.
1. This thread is very interesting overall.
2. I have very much enjoyed reading about Bobblehead's experiences, even if they might belong in their own thread. (By the way, Ron Davis is a good friend and if he said BH's son has MLB talent, then I believe it. Ron is a very frank and very talented evaluator and observer of talent. He also is a gifted coach).
3. There are all sorts of paths to a summer league team and I would not lot the experience of others deter me at all. I placed my son on a Northwoods team myself (with help from some scouts and approval of his college coaches). By the time I was done with my requests, he had offers from two Northwoods team and an offer from a New England team along with one from a Great Lakes team and another from a Jayhawk team. I was better at it than I had anticipated. The team his coaches had placed him with originally was in the Clark Griffith League.
4. It is interesting how this all works out. My middle son this summer played in a collegiate league with D1 players from across the nation. He played with an old high school teammate (and good friend)who is at Duke. What is interesting about this is that my son had not played baseball since high school (he is in his senior year at Arizona State with a full academic scholarship). He went out with the intention only to have fun, which he did. And he literally was better than probably half -- or almost half -- the college players in the league and was in the lineup every game.
You just never know, but if you don't ask, you might not get the chance.
I am not sure, well, I am sure, that it doesn't matter who might say your son can play at what level.
We, well those of us in that 99%, know that for most players, there have been scouts who loved them and scouts who had a long list of reasons that same kid cannot play. They are all "baseball people" as Bear tells us.
Until they prove they can play, it is all "baseball talk" by "baseball people" and "baseball people" can look at the same kid in the same at bat and have diametrically opposed points of view.
BTW, is Theo Epstein now a "baseball person?" Are the new Tampa Rays owners, and the new approach they brought, "baseball people."
Jemaz, the point of this thread was contrasting Summer league teams that focus on DI vs other GM's who look at top talent at other levels.
Green Bay in the Northwoods is a team that has had good success including DIII players. Harry Ayotte with Mill City in the NECBL, and other NECBL teams, do a great job of taking DII, especially from Franklin Pierce and U Mass Lowell, and DIII kids.
There are others.
rls was trying to determine whether his son could get into a certain CPL team close to him, coming from a DIII. I think your post shows that more open you are to all geographic regions, the greater the chances of placement.
The more the parent and player restrict where they hope to play, especially coming from DIII baseball, the tougher it is to get placed where you want to be play.
We, well those of us in that 99%, know that for most players, there have been scouts who loved them and scouts who had a long list of reasons that same kid cannot play. They are all "baseball people" as Bear tells us.
Until they prove they can play, it is all "baseball talk" by "baseball people" and "baseball people" can look at the same kid in the same at bat and have diametrically opposed points of view.
BTW, is Theo Epstein now a "baseball person?" Are the new Tampa Rays owners, and the new approach they brought, "baseball people."
Jemaz, the point of this thread was contrasting Summer league teams that focus on DI vs other GM's who look at top talent at other levels.
Green Bay in the Northwoods is a team that has had good success including DIII players. Harry Ayotte with Mill City in the NECBL, and other NECBL teams, do a great job of taking DII, especially from Franklin Pierce and U Mass Lowell, and DIII kids.
There are others.
rls was trying to determine whether his son could get into a certain CPL team close to him, coming from a DIII. I think your post shows that more open you are to all geographic regions, the greater the chances of placement.
The more the parent and player restrict where they hope to play, especially coming from DIII baseball, the tougher it is to get placed where you want to be play.
Infielddad:
Great post and all great points. Clearly the more open a player is to go where the opportunity exists, the more likely the chance will be real.
But that said, I think it is smart to ask even if the chances are low. The worst anyone can say is no. DIII players are not excluded by rule from any league and many of them are **** good and some are better than many (or even most) D-1 players.
Great post and all great points. Clearly the more open a player is to go where the opportunity exists, the more likely the chance will be real.
But that said, I think it is smart to ask even if the chances are low. The worst anyone can say is no. DIII players are not excluded by rule from any league and many of them are **** good and some are better than many (or even most) D-1 players.
quote:But that said, I think it is smart to ask even if the chances are low.
jemaz - no one advised them not to ask. The better advice is to ask the right people that might actually consider a D3 player. The article that started this thread there was at least one team in the CPL that will not even consider it. Should they ask them? Many of the other teams mentioned in this thread do not employ D3 players either - should they be asked? Actually, asking does not take much effort. The risk is placing all the eggs in one basket or perhaps league in this case and being left out in the "cold" come summer time.
Your specific advice as it relates to your son seems like BHD's advice. Those are cool stories about your sons but I don't see how they help this topic or poster's son. Regarding your #3 point, your son was an ACC player - those opportunities would be there for someone like that. How does that help this particular D3 player? Your point #4, I don't know which league you are talking about but it was not the CPL. The CPL as with most sanctioned college leagues require you to be on a college roster, thus your son would not have qualified for the CPL.
To be clear, my advice is to ask everyone. It is not that difficult and the worst that can happen is that they say no. Most will say no, but it only takes one to say yes.
And even if a team says it will not take D-3 players, there are nearly always exceptions.
And even if a team says it will not take D-3 players, there are nearly always exceptions.
Jemaz meeting Ron was one of the high lights of my son's BB career. He was such a great man and coach. He took the time to work with my son even though he had nothing to gain. Unfortunately the "Niagara Stars" folded after a very short time. The team was run by hall of famer Fergie Jenkins daughter and just couldn't get the fan support.
My original point was to not discourage this player by thinking he is only a D111 player or that he only throws low 80s or what ever his percieved hadicap may be. It is important to believe in your self and to make all efforts to reach your goal. It is clear that some have had success going to the summer team coach directly.
INF we agree on the fact that each scout has his likes and dislikes and sees a player differently. This is also true about college coaches or any other coach.
There was a poster a year or so ago who was upset about the college coach not placing her son on a summer team. She couldn't figure out why and I am not sure she ever got her answer. The best advice was for her to go direct. The coach of the college obviously recruited him but for some reason didn't place him on a team. She hasn't posted here for a long time so I am not suer if he lucked out or not.
The point is you do what you have to if it is important to you.
I also think the original post was answered in spades.
My original point was to not discourage this player by thinking he is only a D111 player or that he only throws low 80s or what ever his percieved hadicap may be. It is important to believe in your self and to make all efforts to reach your goal. It is clear that some have had success going to the summer team coach directly.
INF we agree on the fact that each scout has his likes and dislikes and sees a player differently. This is also true about college coaches or any other coach.
There was a poster a year or so ago who was upset about the college coach not placing her son on a summer team. She couldn't figure out why and I am not sure she ever got her answer. The best advice was for her to go direct. The coach of the college obviously recruited him but for some reason didn't place him on a team. She hasn't posted here for a long time so I am not suer if he lucked out or not.
The point is you do what you have to if it is important to you.
I also think the original post was answered in spades.