had to share this.
"I am getting kicked out of the game when you blew a call"
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
Carl Childress is one of the more respected umpire authorities in the amatuer game today. It is his contention that the majority of ejections can be traced back to a bad call by an umpire.
I have always made an effort to allow a coach some leeway when arguing a call I felt I missed... My thought is not to compound one mistake by making another one.....
HOWEVER........
I do not eject a coach from a game for arguing or complaining. I eject the coach when he goes over the line in the effort.....
so in response......No you are not getting ejected because I blew a call.........you are being ejected because you can't control yourself.........
I have always made an effort to allow a coach some leeway when arguing a call I felt I missed... My thought is not to compound one mistake by making another one.....
HOWEVER........
I do not eject a coach from a game for arguing or complaining. I eject the coach when he goes over the line in the effort.....
so in response......No you are not getting ejected because I blew a call.........you are being ejected because you can't control yourself.........
PIAA Ump
From my experience some of the new breed of umpire(younger) have a chip on their shoulder and i firmly believe they are taught it. I coached high school for 25 years. I was ejected 6 times 3 in my first 2 years and 3 in my last 2. The early ejections were just a matter of my immaturity. The last 3 were umpires not knowing the rules and refusing to correct their mistake and basically looking for trouble. Getting thrown out of a game for saying "that is a terrible call" or a wet behind the ears umpire telling me to get off the field and shut up. Respect is a 2 way street.
From my experience some of the new breed of umpire(younger) have a chip on their shoulder and i firmly believe they are taught it. I coached high school for 25 years. I was ejected 6 times 3 in my first 2 years and 3 in my last 2. The early ejections were just a matter of my immaturity. The last 3 were umpires not knowing the rules and refusing to correct their mistake and basically looking for trouble. Getting thrown out of a game for saying "that is a terrible call" or a wet behind the ears umpire telling me to get off the field and shut up. Respect is a 2 way street.
Will,
We seem to agree.......getting tossed for saying "that is a terrible call" is weak at best.
I train a lot of new umpires and the hardest thing to teach is self control....some get it some don't. I admit to some problems in my younger days as well. I was a lot more confrontational then as well.....
The old SAL league umpire who trained me always said you treated coaches the way they treated you.....if they were respectful so were you....if they yelled, you yelled, if they called you names you called them names.....now that was 20 years ago and I never quite agreed with that tactic......but clearly what he was saying was respect is a 2 way street..
If there is anything I like about umpiring today is the "get it right" movement. In the past if you had an issue, umpire dignity made you stick with a bad situation right or wrong.....now we can huddle and review and get the call right........I think that is progress....and I teach it that way....
We seem to agree.......getting tossed for saying "that is a terrible call" is weak at best.
I train a lot of new umpires and the hardest thing to teach is self control....some get it some don't. I admit to some problems in my younger days as well. I was a lot more confrontational then as well.....
The old SAL league umpire who trained me always said you treated coaches the way they treated you.....if they were respectful so were you....if they yelled, you yelled, if they called you names you called them names.....now that was 20 years ago and I never quite agreed with that tactic......but clearly what he was saying was respect is a 2 way street..
If there is anything I like about umpiring today is the "get it right" movement. In the past if you had an issue, umpire dignity made you stick with a bad situation right or wrong.....now we can huddle and review and get the call right........I think that is progress....and I teach it that way....
Getting it right is the way to go.
In our association if an umpire makes a call which brings the coach out of the dugout, intially it is up to that umpire to handle the situation, yet at the same time the his partner is closing in on the situation more as a mediator. However, if partner had a better view, or better understanding of the rule, we take our hat off. This lets your partner know "you might need my help on this."
In our association if an umpire makes a call which brings the coach out of the dugout, intially it is up to that umpire to handle the situation, yet at the same time the his partner is closing in on the situation more as a mediator. However, if partner had a better view, or better understanding of the rule, we take our hat off. This lets your partner know "you might need my help on this."
I agree that you need to treat coaches with respect when possible, restraint when needed and eject when they cross the line.
The get it right movement is good to a point but can also be a slippery slope in game management. I don't have a problem with going to my partner if I'm not sure or I feel he may have a better look. I will also have a conference to discuss a rule problem to avoid a protest. However, I am not going to spend useless time discussing a call I feel confident I have right. Also most of us work mainly two man and many times the mechanics causes the other ump to be looking at other things and has no clue, so there is no need to talk about a call. With three and four man there is a better chance to get additional information.
As far as new guys having a chip on their shoulder, I don't that is the rule but more an exception or a misconception. There are steps involved in learning to umpire. Some guys that are new don't understand how to handle coaches and players, that is part of the learning curve. When you start you need to learn the rules and mechanics for the level you are working. After becoming proficent with the basics you need to learn how to apply them according your level and start learning how to handle situations. Finally you learn good game management and the rest falls in line.
Many times with newer officials you have one of two things. A sticky situation comes up and they don't know what to do and they allow coaches to do and say things that shouldn't be allowed. Or they reconize they need to do do something and either get very short with the coach or ejects at the wrong time.
I have seen new guys be told not to take too much grief. They are told to shut it down or eject if it gets too far. The problem is many times something that works for an older ump won't work for a young guy. Or what is good for one personality isn't good for another.
I know I have the ability to shut most dugout problems down simply by holding my hand up in a stop sign motion. I have been around long enough for the coaches to know the next thing is somebody is leaving. That would never work for a new guy. The respect isn't there.
The get it right movement is good to a point but can also be a slippery slope in game management. I don't have a problem with going to my partner if I'm not sure or I feel he may have a better look. I will also have a conference to discuss a rule problem to avoid a protest. However, I am not going to spend useless time discussing a call I feel confident I have right. Also most of us work mainly two man and many times the mechanics causes the other ump to be looking at other things and has no clue, so there is no need to talk about a call. With three and four man there is a better chance to get additional information.
As far as new guys having a chip on their shoulder, I don't that is the rule but more an exception or a misconception. There are steps involved in learning to umpire. Some guys that are new don't understand how to handle coaches and players, that is part of the learning curve. When you start you need to learn the rules and mechanics for the level you are working. After becoming proficent with the basics you need to learn how to apply them according your level and start learning how to handle situations. Finally you learn good game management and the rest falls in line.
Many times with newer officials you have one of two things. A sticky situation comes up and they don't know what to do and they allow coaches to do and say things that shouldn't be allowed. Or they reconize they need to do do something and either get very short with the coach or ejects at the wrong time.
I have seen new guys be told not to take too much grief. They are told to shut it down or eject if it gets too far. The problem is many times something that works for an older ump won't work for a young guy. Or what is good for one personality isn't good for another.
I know I have the ability to shut most dugout problems down simply by holding my hand up in a stop sign motion. I have been around long enough for the coaches to know the next thing is somebody is leaving. That would never work for a new guy. The respect isn't there.
I saw the umpiring going into coaching and I have seen it going out. the attitude of those coming up is different. Back when I started could ask an umpire where a pitch was. My last year or so ask the same thing and some of them would read you the riot act and threaten. Had one guy tell me to get off "his" field.
I'm not doubting your experience but I have found the opposite to be true. When I started 30 years ago umpires were not well trained, even at the higher levels, and evry confrontational. Today, most are much better trained and more willing to get together and discuss a ruling.
Today there many clinics available that weren't around years ago and the internet has added an ability to imediately ask and recieve feedback on problems and rule questions.
I had an ump call me the other week about a manager who had given him a fit and ended up throwing a baseball at him after the game. There was no ejection and he said he was working on his tolerance. I explained where he should have gotten rid of him and to forget trying to be tolerate. I tried to make him see that you handle coaches with the intention of keeping them around the whole game. However, you have to have a line and if they cross it then toss them. I don't think that makes me intolerate or confrontational, simply pragmatic.
Today there many clinics available that weren't around years ago and the internet has added an ability to imediately ask and recieve feedback on problems and rule questions.
I had an ump call me the other week about a manager who had given him a fit and ended up throwing a baseball at him after the game. There was no ejection and he said he was working on his tolerance. I explained where he should have gotten rid of him and to forget trying to be tolerate. I tried to make him see that you handle coaches with the intention of keeping them around the whole game. However, you have to have a line and if they cross it then toss them. I don't think that makes me intolerate or confrontational, simply pragmatic.
Example. Catcher todd pratt gets thrown out the other day. close pitch called a ball. Never turning around you can see Pratt is upset and is barking. Umpre behind him is jawing. As getting ready for the next pitch the umpire goes in front of home plate and faces pratt and continues arguing. Why?
Why?....we will never know since we werent on the field....But to imply that Pratt should not have been ejected simply because he did not turn towards the umpire is foolish.....There are still boundaries that you can not cross....
You use certain profane words or make it personal, looking at me or not you are gone......You coached a long time and Im sure youve seen Managers ejected for good reasons and bad reasons, I've known managers who turned to walk away and then "F-Bomb" me knowing if I throw them out I look like the aggressor as it is clear to all watching that he was walking away......
Pratt handled it like we all would like to see it done. But at some point, the wheels came off.....we cant put all the blame on the umpire since we dont know what Pratt said......
You use certain profane words or make it personal, looking at me or not you are gone......You coached a long time and Im sure youve seen Managers ejected for good reasons and bad reasons, I've known managers who turned to walk away and then "F-Bomb" me knowing if I throw them out I look like the aggressor as it is clear to all watching that he was walking away......
Pratt handled it like we all would like to see it done. But at some point, the wheels came off.....we cant put all the blame on the umpire since we dont know what Pratt said......
PIAA ump
No we wont. But the bottom line is he got tossed. If he said something why not toss him before going in front of the plate. i have seen guys called out on a third strike be walking away and the umpire follows him to the dugout an argument ensued and bingo he is gone.
I learned when I argued with an umpire(one with common sense) if he started walking away I did not follow because I knew if I did the likelihood of getting tossed was good. Good umpires call the game and dont "bait".
No we wont. But the bottom line is he got tossed. If he said something why not toss him before going in front of the plate. i have seen guys called out on a third strike be walking away and the umpire follows him to the dugout an argument ensued and bingo he is gone.
I learned when I argued with an umpire(one with common sense) if he started walking away I did not follow because I knew if I did the likelihood of getting tossed was good. Good umpires call the game and dont "bait".
Some of the best umpires I have worked with no how to call the game and when the circumstance dictates know how to "bait".