Gut check - soph fall season

Does he significantly stand out from his peers and even players a year older? If the answer is no - don't showcase. The prerequisite to being a college baseball player is being a standout high school player. If you can tell he's elite every time he takes the field then go for it, until then, no need to spend a dollar.

@PABaseball posted:

Does he significantly stand out from his peers and even players a year older? If the answer is no - don't showcase. The prerequisite to being a college baseball player is being a standout high school player. If you can tell he's elite every time he takes the field then go for it, until then, no need to spend a dollar.

Thanks for the reply.  He doesn’t stand out in PG or V-Tool as a pitcher because his velo isn’t anywhere near the elite RHPs at his grade (or higher).  He generally is a tournament darling 🤣 as he does always have a low WHIP.  He’s not that far off in velo but I don’t think he would get looks like a sophomore RHP cruising 84-85 compared to hIm as a LHP cruising at 76-77.  I just don’t think there is any benefit in a college day camp with 90-120 kids.  He’s not going to stand out at all.

At this point, sophomore RHP pitchers getting looks are more like 89-90+. LHP aren’t far behind. I would focus on strength and skills. D1 guys are the ones recruiting sophomores, at least in the past it’s been that way.

What baseballhs says.

If the travel organization is hosting/sponsoring camps and showcases and it's free, then why not do them?  It probably won't do anything directly for college recruiting, but it will allow the organization to see your son under showcase conditions.  Since they will eventually be talking to colleges about him, the more they have to go on, the better (especially if it's a large organization and they otherwise will barely know him).

@anotherparent posted:

What baseballhs says.

If the travel organization is hosting/sponsoring camps and showcases and it's free, then why not do them?  It probably won't do anything directly for college recruiting, but it will allow the organization to see your son under showcase conditions.  Since they will eventually be talking to colleges about him, the more they have to go on, the better (especially if it's a large organization and they otherwise will barely know him).

Thanks. The camps are not free, it’s part of the fall program which averages around $300 per weekend.  Not terribly expensive but not free.  

If he hasn’t done showcases, maybe do the fall weekend once or twice. Performing at showcases can be intimidating. It’s good to at least know the drill.

@PABaseball posted:

Does he significantly stand out from his peers and even players a year older? If the answer is no - don't showcase. The prerequisite to being a college baseball player is being a standout high school player. If you can tell he's elite every time he takes the field then go for it, until then, no need to spend a dollar.

This isn’t always the case. Freshman year my son played JV ball over the freshman team. That summer he played 16u. At the end of the summer he was invited to play on several 17u teams the following year. What these teams saw was a fast, skinny kid (5’11” 135) driving the ball who was playing very well and would continue to grow and fill out. He was 6’ 160 post soph summer after being an all conference high school shortstop.

TexasLefty:

Do you have MLB Scout teams in your area for HS players?

In Northern California, the pro scouts coach and set up the game schedules. Games are played at College fields. There is NO cost to participate.

"Great opportunities" for College Coaches to evaluate the local talent and for the players to ask questions and learn the game.

Bob

From what you’ve described, I would focus on time in the gym. He’s not going to get any college coach’s attention right now. I wouldn’t even worry about anything but pitching. I’m not saying don’t take an occasional round of BP, but if he has to choose between pitching or hitting drills, do the pitching drills.

HS players have a limited window each year to get better. That window is the fall. Travel orgs push events in the fall because that is how they make money. There is very little to gain for the player. A couple years ago we faced this decision for my son. We looked at the proposed showcase and tournament schedule and determined he would miss 25 days +/- of workouts/throwing program.

@PABaseball posted:

Does he significantly stand out from his peers and even players a year older? If the answer is no - don't showcase. The prerequisite to being a college baseball player is being a standout high school player. If you can tell he's elite every time he takes the field then go for it, until then, no need to spend a dollar.

@PABaseball  is spot on when the criteria is baseball recruiting exposure.   The baseball recruiting foundation starts here...he's got to stand out with a skill or skills.  From that point then you figure out what kind of schools are looking for a baseball player like your son if you like to do things the easy way.  After doing things the hard way for 22 months, I prefer the easy way!       

Just my experience.

@TexasLefty posted:

Thanks. The camps are not free, it’s part of the fall program which averages around $300 per weekend.  Not terribly expensive but not free.  

Definitely don't spend $300!  As the others said, no need to showcase until he has something that college coaches want.

@RJM posted:

This isn’t always the case. Freshman year my son played JV ball over the freshman team. That summer he played 16u. At the end of the summer he was invited to play on several 17u teams the following year. What these teams saw was a fast, skinny kid (5’11” 135) driving the ball who was playing very well and would continue to grow and fill out. He was 6’ 160 post soph summer after being an all conference high school shortstop.

My point would be that your son was prepared to showcase after his sophomore year when he started standing out among his peers - as evidenced by him being all conference.  

It sounds like your son played summer ball. In my eyes summer ball ≠ showcasing. I consider showcasing to be paying money in addition to the traditional summer ball schedule for specific non tournament events (PG/PBR showcases, college camps, etc). I have no beef with traveling to "showcase tournaments" to play better competition. I just wouldn't be traveling to individual showcase events that aren't already covered in travel program tuition - unless there was a significant skill/skillset to showcase to colleges.

Sophomore son attended the free PG or PBR showcase that his organization invited him to this summer.  The invitations came after an off-season spent working and testing similar metrics and it seemed that the players who were invited were expected to put up good numbers (only some players in the organization were invited).  Son did obtain some good numbers (some of his numbers were quite high for his age and some better than players years older than him), but he is working on getting them higher for next year.  One of the coaches actually just commented generally to parents and players that there should be no rush to attend a showcase unless you have an idea of what your numbers might be - then the decision needs to be made as to whether to keep working or maybe attend one and get official measurements.   Currently, we have not paid for any additional showcases.   

Obviously, there is so much more to baseball than numbers!  Son thinks it is too early to attend camps, as he thinks he will be bigger and stronger by next year.  He is spending the fall in the gym and on skills, while maintaining good grades.

@PABaseball posted:

My point would be that your son was prepared to showcase after his sophomore year when he started standing out among his peers - as evidenced by him being all conference.  

It sounds like your son played summer ball. In my eyes summer ball ≠ showcasing. I consider showcasing to be paying money in addition to the traditional summer ball schedule for specific non tournament events (PG/PBR showcases, college camps, etc). I have no beef with traveling to "showcase tournaments" to play better competition. I just wouldn't be traveling to individual showcase events that aren't already covered in travel program tuition - unless there was a significant skill/skillset to showcase to colleges.

He was invited to play in several 17u programs after after playing 16u post freshman summer and before making varsity his soph year. That 16u summer he didn’t do any showcases. The coaches of five 16u academy teams recommended him to the 17u team off of local USSSA tournaments.

17u programs were checking out our team. We had five fifteen year olds who moved up to 17u the following year. They all went P5. All were invited to play 17u before making varsity soph year.

Whatever happened 15 years ago, or even 5 years ago, may be less relevant, especially for D1 recruiting, which has gone through several complete evolutions in the past few years, especially now with the transfer portal.  From what I can tell, D3 recruiting has changed somewhat less, happening in 17U, although some top-ranked D3 programs are heavily invested in transfers now, too.  Many D2s always took a lot of juco transfers.

What always was, and still probably is, true is that if you have travel coaches who are honest and know what they are doing (and how do you know that?), you probably don't need extra showcases until they say so.   But if they are making money off showcases (something I didn't figure out until afterward), then it becomes difficult to know what to do.

@Consultant posted:

TexasLefty:

Do you have MLB Scout teams in your area for HS players?

In Northern California, the pro scouts coach and set up the game schedules. Games are played at College fields. There is NO cost to participate.

"Great opportunities" for College Coaches to evaluate the local talent and for the players to ask questions and learn the game.

Bob

I’m sure we do.  Is this for just the top of the top players?  While my LHP has exceptional command/control, he’s maybe slightly above average on velo, so really not going to blow the socks of any level of scout  If it’s something that he could do, how would someone find more information?  Appreciate the info!

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

From what you’ve described, I would focus on time in the gym. He’s not going to get any college coach’s attention right now. I wouldn’t even worry about anything but pitching. I’m not saying don’t take an occasional round of BP, but if he has to choose between pitching or hitting drills, do the pitching drills.

HS players have a limited window each year to get better. That window is the fall. Travel orgs push events in the fall because that is how they make money. There is very little to gain for the player. A couple years ago we faced this decision for my son. We looked at the proposed showcase and tournament schedule and determined he would miss 25 days +/- of workouts/throwing program.

Thanks for the advice.  It’s where we are at essentially and definitely helps to have a sounding board here.  He’s making steady gains and the strength training (with a light throwing program) in the fall definitely paid off last year.  

Actually showcasing too early could possibly hurt. A former coach (and he's been out of the game for a few years, so this may have changed) told me that when he went to a camp he essentially had one folder for each good (mental folders). If they were good, the folder stayed open. if they weren't he closed the folder and he said it was very hard to get him to reopen it.

@RJM posted:

He was invited to play in several 17u programs after after playing 16u post freshman summer and before making varsity his soph year. That 16u summer he didn’t do any showcases. The coaches of five 16u academy teams recommended him to the 17u team off of local USSSA tournaments.

17u programs were checking out our team. We had five fifteen year olds who moved up to 17u the following year. They all went P5. All were invited to play 17u before making varsity soph year.

I don't think we disagree on anything. I'm not saying to avoid travel ball and games, I'm saying to avoid paid PG/PBR/etc showcases. Unless it is already covered by travelball dues I wouldn't really consider it. By all means, play summer ball, play competitive games, just don't shell out additional money.

You had your son doing the right thing. Playing up against better competition, you did not showcase him until he was an accomplished HS player (post sophomore year).

@PABaseball posted:

I don't think we disagree on anything. I'm not saying to avoid travel ball and games, I'm saying to avoid paid PG/PBR/etc showcases. Unless it is already covered by travelball dues I wouldn't really consider it. By all means, play summer ball, play competitive games, just don't shell out additional money.

You had your son doing the right thing. Playing up against better competition, you did not showcase him until he was an accomplished HS player (post sophomore year).

My only point was these five kids were invited to play 17u the summer heading into soph year before they played varsity. It was based off dominating 16u games and their potential. They played varsity soph year in the spring before playing 17u games. But they were already on the team.

@baseballhs posted:

LHP aren’t far behind.

I've never, in all my years following my son, seen a left-handed player be behind a righty all things being somewhat equal. Being LH puts you to the front of the line.

@SomeBaseballDad posted:

I've never, in all my years following my son, seen a left-handed player be behind a righty all things being somewhat equal. Being LH puts you to the front of the line.

I was referencing velo

@SomeBaseballDad posted:

I've never, in all my years following my son, seen a left-handed player be behind a righty all things being somewhat equal. Being LH puts you to the front of the line.

A left handed pitcher has value until three years after his death certificate is filed. Check out Terry Mulholland’s career. His last competent season was 1998. He lasted until 2006.

https://www.baseball-reference...rs/m/mulhote01.shtml