Hazings

Rather than use the term hazing I prefer "initiation" and there have always been and always been initiations in one manner or another. Even pro teams have them--in HS many teams have the newbies carry the equipment

Todays media folk will jump on anything they can regardless of who it may hurt

quote:

the media taking advantage of a new found source of “shock” articles and trying to blow it out of proportion in order to "sell" their product?

Says it all.

Let's not blur the lines between initiation and hazing here.

There is a big difference between making the newbies carry the equipment, or rake the infield, or clean the dugout, or have the less desirable locker space, or sing for the rest of the team, (initiation) and forced alcohol consumption, or tying someone up, or forced sexually suggestive dances (hazing).

Granted, we do not know all of the details of the Northwestern situation yet. However, if the pictures are accurate, there was alcohol consumption (don't know whether or not it was forced), tying someone up (girls blindfolded with their hands tied behind their backs) and lap dances for members of the men's s****r team.

If the alcohol consumption is forced, that is NEVER appropriate for college students, even if they are of age. That's hazing, not initiation. Forcing a girl to do a sexually suggestive dance for a male is also hazing (by the way, if any of the girls were under 18, that's use of a minor in a sexual performance, a felony in my state), and I would be pretty upset if I had a daughter forced to do that.

Now, is this stuff prevalent? I hope not. Sure, it is going to seem prevalent since we now have instant communication capability all over the world. I can take a picture on my cell phone and have it up on a website accessible to anyone in the world in a matter of seconds. That is just the way of the world now, folks.

It's simple. Before you do something, think "would my momma be upset if she saw a picture of this on the front of a website"? If the answer is yes, then perhaps one shouldn't do it.

Not only am I not for it, I'M DEAD SET AGAINST IT. I wouldn't recommend anyone in my program hazing a lower level player. Call it initiation or what you want, I call it "lets line up and get our minds right concerning how we are going to treat our teammates."

BTW, I was once set up for a hazing. My choice was that I was going to cripple the first guy I could get my hands on. Then, they could do what they wanted to me. Again, I don't take those thinks lightly. In my case, thank goodness they realized I was serious.

We had a serious hazing incident at our school a couple years back - couple guys lost schollies as a result. Since then the school has a STRICT no hzing policy, which prohibits thinsg like making the newbies carry eqpt, get the water, etc. While I think they carry it a bit too far, it is tough to draw the line, so there is no line.

There is a very large & distinct difference between the long time tradition of new/rookie players having to haul equipment and ball bags and the types of hazing incidents that have grabbed the headlines in the past few years.

There is nothing wrong at all with having player carry some equipment. My son was a 15 yr old American Legion Player last year and he got his share of it. He understood exactly what it was and while he was not jumping up to do it, he accepted it in the spirit of the tradition.

Now granted, some teams take it overboard, making players haul equipment all over the field on a hot day....etc. It is all in how the team and coaching staff handles it.

My son's situation was different in a big way from a college team though because the players are not living together on a campus or in a fraternity.

Many initiation "rites" such as the NFL's having all the rookie players stand up at meals and sing their schools fight songs are pretty harmless.

Like all things in life though, if carried to extremes, these harmless "rites" can cause a lot of damage.

I took a bunch of college kids out to dinner after a game recently and this subject came up so I asked if it had happened. They all started laughing and told me about their particular "ritual." I'll admit, I wasn't thrilled when I heard about it.

The only thought that occurred to me was to speak out loud to the group so they could hear what my thinking was. I said something like, "I would think that it would not be a good idea to pull something like that on one of your teammates. IMO, you would want them as your loyal and productive team member - not as your adversary." They all seemed to shake their head like they knew exactly what I was talking about. Then again, they will do things we will never know about.

Hazings or initiatives are never good and they are rarely intended to impart anything positive. What they are is a dressed up form of bullying. This is a good thing in today's politically correct era.

A good teammate will always share the load with a fellow teammate and will never do anything to make that teammate feel unwelcome. Unfortuately, there are many poor teammates out there.

Carrying the bags, etc. is one thing, earning your keep so to speak, which is fine. However, at my son's school some hazing went on last year that left some very bad feelings and did NOTHING to help team chemistry or create anything positive from what I saw. It is part of that "lord of the flies" mentality that has outlived its usefullness IMO.

Young men who take a stand initially that sends a message to others to "lay off" is a sign of strength and leadership.

There will be no "hazing" as far as my kid is concerned, so any future teammates take note at the college level.

"ain't gonna happen"

Promoters of this behavior are mostly "loser followers" and have no direction. There is no gray area in this matter in my book!!

Those are my rules!!

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Rather than use the term hazing I prefer "initiation"

If you don't call it hazing, then it must not be hazing. That is an ignorant position to take. Similarly, a drug overdose is not a drug overdose. It is the recreational over-application of a mind altering substance.

hi, just saw the topic and thought I'd say something insiteful ... I agree with TR

but ... it IS hard to decide as there seems to be a rather wide range of of what defines hazing. One thing is certain though, using the definitions spoken of here, hazing will likely be unavoidable after hs.


HOWEVER, at least one person sees it's benefits ...

a few back, Indians rookie Kyle Denney was spared serious injury during a bus ride in the twin cities when his white cheerleader boots deflected/slowed a bullet fired thru the bus from the street. the boots were part of a scanty USC cheerleader outfit (w/blonde wig) he wore as part of his rookie initiation (hazing?). some said he looked pretty good

there's room for debate here as he put up an 18.00 era back in A ball the following yr ...
was it lingering psychological damage, or an old bullet wound bothering him?


I think I'll reserve judgement, as an accepted hazing definition includes "public humiliation" .. and if I went on a rant critisizing the players in a certain program, I myself would be guilty of ..... HAZING

soo, where can pictures of the womens so-ccer team dancers be purchased?


btw, the response CD got ..
" They all seemed to shake their head like they knew exactly what I was talking about."

likely would be exactly the same if someone talked to them about refraining from beer before 21
while they were taking up a collection for the keg on the QT

We fail to realize how the concept of hazing is imbedded in our society. From the ritual of a baptism, to the extreme where we watch the Discovery channel where someone ties a grapevine to his ankles and jumps off a tower and slams himself headfirst into the ground, to a simple oath we utter while raising our right hand (NOT LEFT) in a court of law; every facet of our life makes a statement that you have to do something to be recognized or ---- you have to do something to show us you are worthy. Badges, pins, medals, and ribbons, trophies are all given (earned) to those that have proven they are worthy. We should not be surprised that when we assemble a group of competitive athletes together as “equals” that they devise a method of establishing some sort of a “rite of passage”. To me it’s just human nature. An Eagle Scout might have to swim a quarter mile to earn a merit badge but no one looks at that as being thrown into the water and forced to swim for his life. Listen to the phrases we use: baptism by fire --- earned your stripes---- tried and true----all rites of passage. Now take these athletes at a time when partying and $ex are part of the college scene and guess what --- you have just created the perfect enviorment for a hazing incident. Our children should NOT act like fools or be faced with public humiliation!! I wonder what the Grand Pooh Bah would say about hazings and public embarassment?

dbg

For one to call another ignorant here just tells me where your head is and at what your inteligence level is.

Isn't interesting how of late we see the terms "jerk" and "ignorant used here more and more---

TR,

True is not false, just because a person won't acknowledge truth. In the same way, hazing is not initiation because you want to label the activity as initiation.

I did not describe you as ignorant. I posited that your line of reasoning (I prefer to use 'initiation') is an ignorant debating point.

That my friend is calling me ignorant---

have a nice day

That is just how you prefer to think about it.

My high school, even though the seniors can be real jerks to us freshman, they are usually pretty cool. They will do things like climb on top of the locker room and drop water balloons on us, and sometimes they hide on top of the locker and dump water on us, or tie a string and when you open your locker, it dumps on your, and they will make us do the hard work, like putting out bases, tamping batters boxes, and such, and carry mats, but its really not that bad. They also will do things like pick someone up and carry them to the toilet, threatening to give them a swirly, but they always stop before they even make it to the locker room. ONe time they took my friends bike and rode it around the track like 3 times, saying they were gonna take it, but they gave it back. As long as no one gets injured or goes away crying, it is ok.

good post Adam, dbg may not have to call out the "hazing police" after all

sometimes it seems the kids have a better grasp than the adults