HBO: "Real Sports"

Great piece --- a must see for all youth league players, parents and coaches

Does anyone know when it will air next?

It is doubtful that most of us will get to see it. What were the reasons sited? You mentioned overuse. What were some of the examples used?

Schedule for Real Sports airings are:

Thu 3/17 05:30 PM HBO - EAST
Thu 3/17 11:50 PM HBO - EAST
Sat 3/19 10:00 AM HBO - EAST
Sun 3/20 01:00 PM HBO2 - EAST
Tue 3/22 12:00 PM HBO - EAST
Tue 3/22 08:00 PM HBO - EAST
Thu 3/24 04:00 PM HBO2 - EAST
Thu 3/24 11:30 PM HBO2 - EAST
Fri 3/25 06:00 AM HBO - EAST
Fri 3/25 03:30 PM HBO - EAST
Sun 3/27 11:30 AM HBO - EAST
Mon 3/28 08:30 AM HBO2 - EAST
Wed 3/30 07:00 PM HBO2 - EAST

SAVANNAH

They talke of kids under 12 throwing curveballs and the damage to bones, tendons and ligaments not yet fully developed

They talked of kids under 12 playing baseball all year 'round

They talked of tournaments and lack of player development for kids under 12 years of age

it is not just overruse, but throwing with bad mechanics. I have seen pitching instructors teach to throw acros the body and they wonder why people have arm troubles

DRIVEL

At the ages of 10 thru 12 it is curveballs, over use and bad mechanics all rolled into one.

Did you see the piece on TV last nicht ?

sorry TR, I was watching 24 and watching Jack Bauer battle terrorists. I see enough players arms abused on a daily basis

(I must preface this by saying I haven't seen the program)

Does anyone KNOW the truth?

Has anyone run a scientific medical test on a large universe of 12 year old pitchers (say several hundred) and divide them on whether or not they use curveballs extensively.
How do those groups turn out at age 18 or beyond?

Or has anyone surveyed kids who have TJ and other problems in HS and college to determine whether they used curves or pitched year-round more often that the average kid when they were in grade/middle school?

Can someone post a link to such studies?

mic

See the segment and then come back---it was very interesting and done by ortho surgeons with interviews from coaches on both the pro and youth level

Bottom line: the number of TJ operations has increased greatly for kids 10 to 14 years of age

And that does not include those who need it later on

quote:

Bottom line: the number of TJ operations has increased greatly for kids 10 to 14 years of age

Don't get HBO here. Of course TJ has increased. We now know it works fairly well and more surgeons know the technique.

Just about every category of "recreational" surgery is skyrocketing. **** jobs to facial to weight loss. Dentists are getting rich nowadays even though no one has cavities.

The surgeon interviewed on the program advocated that curveballs and sliders be outlawed by leagues until at least age 14. They interviewed this little 12 year old and his dad from California, I think. He was getting a TJ job.

His dad said basicly that "I was just trying to keep him up with all the other kids, my bad," by letting him pitch all the time. He's a catcher now.

They interviewed Bob Cluck with the Detroit Tigers. He said that "A bunch of youth coaches have trophies on the their shelves and alot of 14 year olds have already been cheated out of major league careers. It's getting ridiculous."

The program basicly blamed year round baseball, radar guns and parents pushing their kids toward the major leagues with a ten-fold increase in elbow surgery for 10-16 year olds in the past 10 years.

I think it is an overstatement saying that "alot of 14 yo have been cheated out of the major leagues." This is surely an assumption. Also it may need to figure in how many more kids are playing now than in the past plus better access to doctors and technology. i do agree about controlling the age cb is thrown.

Perhaps HBO should have delayed airing that segment until later in the year when they could have run the promos during the LLWS on ESPN.

Four kids a year, on average, die in baseball/softball related accidents too.

I used worry about that until I realized that far more were killed by their parents on the way home from a game after drinking beer at the park.

I'm still waiting for someone to post a link to a thorough medical study on pitching arm safety. Mostly I read this stuff from pitching coaches who claim they can prevent injuries by taking their course.

Injuries happen...we all know that. We also know more and more pitchers are throwing into their 40s...even in this era of radar, huge salaries, three season kids' baseball, etc.

I'd prefer scientific studies to anecdotal stories on HBO.

Gotta wonder when I hear people claim these things are more common than years ago. I doubt budding Cy Youngs or even Bob Fellers of yesteryear suffered from "rotator cuff" or "UCL" problems. Heck, all they (or even their doctor) knew was that one day they couldn't throw anymore.

Wasn't much of a problem when most pro pitchers were making $10,000 a year.

There wasn't anyone from HBO to do a story on it back then. And the medical community was more focused on things like TB and later polio.

Just my opinion. I refuse to take the stance that "a few soldiers must die" to win the war, so to speak. I am in favor of prohibiting breaking pitches until 14 or 15, mandatory pitch counts and innings per week.

That being said, a pitcher accepts the risks inherent to the position by taking the mound.

As a child, he's limited by the coaches as to when he comes out of the game. The pitchers responsiblity for an injury ends at a reasonable pitch count per game, per week. He has to do what the coach says.

Obviously some coaches and most parents don't know what is reasonable for most kids. Snapping off curves for 20 innings a week at 11 is just not reasonable.

If someone can't see the relationship between increased elbow surgery and the growth of travel leagues, showcases, and year round baseball in the sunbelt, its because they don't want to see it.

quote:

If someone can't see the relationship between increased elbow surgery and the growth of travel leagues, showcases, - - - it's because they don't want to see it.

agree, but there are alot of factors working here -
"a few soldiers ARE gonna die" - many more kids are playing more games - - these days, anyone can find a "select travel team" somewhere that will take them

in Feller's day there was "natural selection", where the "herd" thinned itself either thru injury or being left behind skills wise by hs - and only the srongest-healthiest-talented players survived
(Feller said he started thowing the cb at about 8 yrs old)

today the "herd" never gets thinned and in some cases grows each year with more rec, travel and showcase opportunities - private instruction starting at 5 yr old

players are tutored, patched, healed, and repaired who would have been long gone from the game years ago - - among them are some who got the right instruction, had the proper throwing program, followed pitch counts, did not throw cb's etc - and ther arms gave out anyway

my 2 cents

quote:

Originally posted by Dibble:
sorry TR, I was watching 24 and watching Jack Bauer battle terrorists. I see enough players arms abused on a daily basis

Any chance we could get Jack Bauer to pay a visit to some of those coaches who teach curve balls to 10 year olds?