Anyone see the segment on HBO Real Time Sports?...DR Mike Marshall has a unique approach to pitching to avoid arm troubles..was wonder everyone's POV? The kids ptiching with his approach certainly looked diffrent
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Marshall's protege's are great at throwing for 280 days into a net. Are any succeeding at high levels of ball? If so, who are they?
I went to a open Braves tryout this past summer and one of his followers was there.
The way he threw was just so different, so odd. The first thing I noticed was that he warmed up with an iron ball about the size of a shotput ball. He threw an absolutely disgusting screwball. But he was only touching 82-84.
As far as I know, none of Marshall's followers have made it to a high level of play.
The way he threw was just so different, so odd. The first thing I noticed was that he warmed up with an iron ball about the size of a shotput ball. He threw an absolutely disgusting screwball. But he was only touching 82-84.
As far as I know, none of Marshall's followers have made it to a high level of play.
This is the pitcher I had previously mentioned. He played baseball at St. Xavier in Chicago.
http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=49702264...402&hl=en&autoplay=1
http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=49702264...402&hl=en&autoplay=1
Ok I am not an expert in pitching. It is the one position in my many years of coaching I haven't had any experience at.
I cannot see how this delivery is any better than the traditional one. The only way I can see where it would help not hurt an arm is the pitcher doesn't get enough turn / torque out of his body. Which means his arm is going to be slower and lead to a slower fastball. I am willing to bet if you took the same kid in this video and taught him a traditional delivery his fastball would go up.
Watch it from the side angle - he is still putting a similar amount of stress on the elbow because once you reach this part it is the exact same form / position as the traditional delivery. Like I said the only way it would help the elbow is because he is getting less power from his body. He is basically throwing all arm because the front knee doesn't get into the air to help create momentum from his body to have his arm "whip" through.
Both deliveries end up in the power position but this new way there is no momentum created by the body to help with velocity.
How does he teach this in regards to the stretch position? I don't remember this guy throwing any from the stretch position.
One thing I just noticed while watching it from the side view is he doesn't get extension with his front foot. What I mean is that his front foot doesn't land away from the rubber. He basically sets his foot down and throws. Pitchers want to explode off the mound to gain ground towards the plate. By having his foot end up close to his body he finishes in a horrible fielding position. A line drive back up the middle is going to hit him and it will probably hurt.
Another thing I noticed is there are a couple of scenes where there are a bunch of balls around the catcher - can he not throw it back to this guy? Besides how can you trust anyone who has a left handed catcher? That is just wrong.
If this was an effective delivery and guaranteed fewer arm injuries then there would be more people doing it - especially at the pro level.
I cannot see how this delivery is any better than the traditional one. The only way I can see where it would help not hurt an arm is the pitcher doesn't get enough turn / torque out of his body. Which means his arm is going to be slower and lead to a slower fastball. I am willing to bet if you took the same kid in this video and taught him a traditional delivery his fastball would go up.
Watch it from the side angle - he is still putting a similar amount of stress on the elbow because once you reach this part it is the exact same form / position as the traditional delivery. Like I said the only way it would help the elbow is because he is getting less power from his body. He is basically throwing all arm because the front knee doesn't get into the air to help create momentum from his body to have his arm "whip" through.
Both deliveries end up in the power position but this new way there is no momentum created by the body to help with velocity.
How does he teach this in regards to the stretch position? I don't remember this guy throwing any from the stretch position.
One thing I just noticed while watching it from the side view is he doesn't get extension with his front foot. What I mean is that his front foot doesn't land away from the rubber. He basically sets his foot down and throws. Pitchers want to explode off the mound to gain ground towards the plate. By having his foot end up close to his body he finishes in a horrible fielding position. A line drive back up the middle is going to hit him and it will probably hurt.
Another thing I noticed is there are a couple of scenes where there are a bunch of balls around the catcher - can he not throw it back to this guy? Besides how can you trust anyone who has a left handed catcher? That is just wrong.
If this was an effective delivery and guaranteed fewer arm injuries then there would be more people doing it - especially at the pro level.
I've followed Marshall for at least a decade. (Mostly curiosity over an intellectual guy who has displayed such detailed, scholarly work.)
These mechanics may maximize safety, but I'm completely confused by the lack of explosive energy or for that matter leverage. Of course it will reduce arm injuries, but what does it matter when pitches are barely faster than batting practice.
Have I missed something?
If so what?
Anyway, I'll log on and watch the segment, via on-demand, over morning coffee. BUT, I must say I've searched for, and found no evidence of in-game traction for Marshall's non-traditional techniques and expensive training program.
These mechanics may maximize safety, but I'm completely confused by the lack of explosive energy or for that matter leverage. Of course it will reduce arm injuries, but what does it matter when pitches are barely faster than batting practice.
Have I missed something?
If so what?
Anyway, I'll log on and watch the segment, via on-demand, over morning coffee. BUT, I must say I've searched for, and found no evidence of in-game traction for Marshall's non-traditional techniques and expensive training program.
I have been teaching baseball professionally for 30 years now and in the first 20 years I taught the “traditional throwing mechanics” with all the problems associated with it like Elbow injuries, Shoulder injuries, Back and leg injuries. Ten years ago I started testing on my self these new and superior throwing mechanic. I have been teaching these mechanics to all my clients now for 8 years and have had no injuries ”None” since I started teaching them. I personally pitch 800 to 1,200 throws of which half are maximum effort daily, that’s 6 days a week. I now never use a pitching machine like I used to have to use 5 days a week. All you have to do is go to DrMikeMarshall.com and read all of his material, it is all-free.
Dr.Marshalls mechanics differ in that they allow your body to throw more like an Outfielder from the mound, which in turn causes many mechanical improvements in linear motion, Muscular advantage and injury preventive Kineseological articulation.
Because these mechanics do not cause injury the athletes can train with 100’s of times more resistance for strength to withstand Ballistic Kinetic movements through ’Sport specificity”
His main discoveries are whether you use his full mechanics or acquiesce with a leg lift are to:
1. Pendulum swing your arms up to drive line height before you glove arm touches ground.
2. Do not over rotate your shoulders past parallel to the driveline.
3. Lock your Humerus in line with your chest at drive line height.
4. Drive ball inside of vertical (over center mass).
5. Pronate your forward drive.
6. Pronate all releases.
7. Create powerful late rotation and pronation snap.
RJM,
“This is all I'm going to say on the subject”
you just could’nt help your self could you?
HaverDad,
One of my HS seniors threw a 2 hit shutout Monday using these incredible moving pitches and mechanics here in SoCal. He is 5’10” 170 lbs. And was clocked at 88-91.
Dr.Marshalls mechanics differ in that they allow your body to throw more like an Outfielder from the mound, which in turn causes many mechanical improvements in linear motion, Muscular advantage and injury preventive Kineseological articulation.
Because these mechanics do not cause injury the athletes can train with 100’s of times more resistance for strength to withstand Ballistic Kinetic movements through ’Sport specificity”
His main discoveries are whether you use his full mechanics or acquiesce with a leg lift are to:
1. Pendulum swing your arms up to drive line height before you glove arm touches ground.
2. Do not over rotate your shoulders past parallel to the driveline.
3. Lock your Humerus in line with your chest at drive line height.
4. Drive ball inside of vertical (over center mass).
5. Pronate your forward drive.
6. Pronate all releases.
7. Create powerful late rotation and pronation snap.
RJM,
“This is all I'm going to say on the subject”
you just could’nt help your self could you?
HaverDad,
One of my HS seniors threw a 2 hit shutout Monday using these incredible moving pitches and mechanics here in SoCal. He is 5’10” 170 lbs. And was clocked at 88-91.
I've been to the Marshall web site at least 50 times. Theoretically, it makes sense.
And, I'm always interested in a better way! But so far, the Marshall Method seems more conceptual than practical.
(Note: I say this based on the experience of supporting a player that played 100+ games each year between 1996-2006. This often meant major tournaments (USSA, CABA World Series etc.) where we'd regularly see 24+ other teams. It also included 4 years of college baseball and two summers of MLB-sanctioned wooden bat leagues. During that time, across 15 states and several european countries, I've never seen this method once, in any game, anywhere.)
Please!!! Show us some video of your HS senior who "threw a 2 hit shutout Monday using these incredible moving pitches and mechanics here in SoCal. He is 5’10” 170 lbs. And was clocked at 88-91."
I'm sure all Websters would love to see it.
And, I'm always interested in a better way! But so far, the Marshall Method seems more conceptual than practical.
(Note: I say this based on the experience of supporting a player that played 100+ games each year between 1996-2006. This often meant major tournaments (USSA, CABA World Series etc.) where we'd regularly see 24+ other teams. It also included 4 years of college baseball and two summers of MLB-sanctioned wooden bat leagues. During that time, across 15 states and several european countries, I've never seen this method once, in any game, anywhere.)
Please!!! Show us some video of your HS senior who "threw a 2 hit shutout Monday using these incredible moving pitches and mechanics here in SoCal. He is 5’10” 170 lbs. And was clocked at 88-91."
I'm sure all Websters would love to see it.
Marshall shold maybe invest in a couple new baseballs or get someone to donate a one or two that don't have the covers torn off.
So what you're saying is after 280 days of training the guy was throwing four miles an hour faster than my 135 pound, fourteen year old son. I have no further questions for the court at this time.quote:Originally posted by J.Weaver #5:
I went to a open Braves tryout this past summer and one of his followers was there.
The way he threw was just so different, so odd. The first thing I noticed was that he warmed up with an iron ball about the size of a shotput ball. He threw an absolutely disgusting screwball. But he was only touching 82-84.
As far as I know, none of Marshall's followers have made it to a high level of play.
quote:RJM,
“This is all I'm going to say on the subject”
you just could’nt help your self could you?
Given Marshall claims to have the greatest thing since sliced bread and all traditional baseball people are ignorant, isn't my question legitimate?
There really isn't proof Marshall's technique saves arms. No one has ever had a career with them. Plenty of pitchers make it through college without hurting their arms. I know very few pitchers with low velocity (relative to their age to cover youth ball) who hurt their arms. Those who did had weak traditional technique.
When asked who the Marshall pitchers are, it's a big secret due to the "conspiracy" against Marshall. The only one I've been able to uncover pitched for a D3 in Massachusetts last year. His ERA was 7.07 for the 14 innings he was allowed to pitch. There's another who was in the Mets system who's out of baseball with an arm injury. He's trying out for an Indy team this spring.
On another site I believe a follower said Marshall pitchers are so quick to the plate they don't have to stretch.quote:How does he teach this in regards to the stretch position? I don't remember this guy throwing any from the stretch position.
...just waiting for this to turn into a 10 page p!$$ing match....
My only issue at this time is if Marshall's technique is so wonderful, and it's been around for twenty, thirty years, "Where's the beef?" I'm not interested in seeing someone throw into a net. I don't want to hear about science. Show me the successes at high levels on the field of competition. Give me names. 
As for the ****ing matching, my sword is in the shop. 
I wish I had this icon 
for the last shot Deemax put on the Marshall disciple on the other board. It was a between the eyes knockout punch.
I watched the report on HBO. He had one guy in the big leagues who supposedly went from throwing 80 with pain to 90 with no pain. The guy ( I don't remember his name ) pitched a few games for the D-Rays until he got in a shouting match with his catcher during a game.
I know a kid who rehabbed an ulnar nerve injury at Marshalls camp. He was a crafty lefty who ended up at a South Carolina D2. He didn't have those funky mechanics though.
I know a kid who rehabbed an ulnar nerve injury at Marshalls camp. He was a crafty lefty who ended up at a South Carolina D2. He didn't have those funky mechanics though.
quote:( I don't remember his name )
Jeff Sparks... Dont let the Marshall zero injuries claims cloud your judgement, Sparks (Marshalls greatest student) had TJ surgery in 2003. 10+ years after working with Marshall.
quote:until he got in a shouting match with his catcher during a game.
Not why he got sent down. He had three horrific outings in a row... Check the baseball cube or reference. He stopped throwing strikes, so they brought up someone else that could.
quote:Please!!! Show us some video of your HS senior who "threw a 2 hit shutout Monday using these incredible moving pitches and mechanics here in SoCal. He is 5’10” 170 lbs. And was clocked at 88-91."
I have video of this kid. He is on the perfect game site complete with a video profile.
He throws nothing like Mike Marshall pitchers...Not even close (unless some guru has ruined him since this was filmed),...and he can even throw from the stretch! Something else Mike Marshall pitchers dont practice.
Perhaps Marshall's pitchers never have any runners on base thus no need for pitching from the stretch
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
Perhaps Marshall's pitchers never have any runners on base thus no need for pitching from the stretch
perhaps.
I've also always been a bit confused/amused by the quirky sideways hop at the end of most of these deliveries, which seems unlikely to turn the pitcher into an efficient 6th infielder.
Thanks Deemax for the update on Sparks. I was surprised to see the bizarre bullpen deliveries at the Marshall camp, which were nothing like the kid I watched, who had conventional mechanics.
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
Perhaps Marshall's pitchers never have any runners on base thus no need for pitching from the stretch
I think your right, just like elephants can fly.