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Heel, flat or ball of foot?

CADadCADad5,000+ posts
We've been having a discussion about how pitchers should land. I decided to look at a random sample of clips so I used a site Baseball pitching clips
that has a fair number of clips in slow motion as my random sample. It is open to interpretation as most are pretty close to flat but here are the results:

Maddux - flat
Haren - heel
Schilling - flat
Sabathia - slightly ball
Hamels - heel
Becket - heel
Halladay - flat
Kazmir - heel
Santana - heel
Peavy - heel
Papelbon - heel
Oswalt - heel
Webb - slightly ball
Johnson - slightly ball
Smoltz - slightly ball
Verlander - heel
Rivera - ball
buehrle - heel
Hoffman - heel
Glavine - slightly heel

That's fifteen that were heel or flat, with most of those at least slightly heel first to five that were ball of the foot first with most of those pretty close to flat.

There are some very good pitchers planting ball of the foot first but from this sample it would seem that the vast majority of MLB pitchers plant heel first or flat.
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CADadCADad5,000+ posts
Good luck to BOFjr on the SATs though I doubt he needs it. One piece of advice, don't go straight from the SATs to pitching in a game. CASon had started out fairly well in VIBL going into his junior season then he went straight from the SATs to pitching against Chatsworth. Not surprisingly he didn't have much focus and his control was off. He got away with it in the first inning only because he was throwing fairly hard and the ump had a very high strike zone. His HS coaches tried to make changes in his mechanics literally between innings and messed him up big time. The results of that one outing, which should have been meaningless followed him for quite a while.
Last edited by CADad
NIC15NIC15100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by CADad:
You're wrong.


I am wrong?



Jake Peavy has a Max Effort Delivery, opens up his front side way to far.

Josh Beckett - Inconsistent arm slots causing him injuries already this year, wrapping his heel around his backside leg during windup.

Hamels has an extremely low elbow during his delivery, opens front side, with a tilt in his head taking his head off the center line

Verlander - Solid Mechanics

Oswolt - Max Effort delivery, gets to low on delivery causing his ball to come out flat at times

Kazmir - Pretty solid mechanics, but always injured.

Papelbon - Terrible Mechanics, max effort, very open front side, inconsistent arm slots
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
Add up their salaries and then tell me just how bad their mechanics are!

Seriously, their mechanics are a mix but they've all found out what works for them.

Peavy looks open because of his finish but if you check at initial foot contact he's quite closed and actually as close to ideal as one could be. I don't like his finish with the lack of extension but it works.

Oswalt doesn't get too low, actually the fact that he's so low makes his high fastball much more effective. His tempo is so different from anyone else's that you can't apply the norms to him especially relative to opening early.

Papelbon has made great adaptations for his way of pitching. He counter rotates and swings his leg around so he's going to tend to look open. He strides closed to keep from being excessively early with his arm. I'd sure like my son to have these "terrible mechanics". He gets great drive, and they are relatively easy on the arm for how hard he throws.

Haren has IMO great mechanics.

Verlander jerks his head at release and strides a bit open, pitchers who stride straight to the plate can get away with striding a bit more open, but it works just fine so I won't call his mechanics bad.

Out of this group there are several whose mechanics I look at and don't particularly like but when you look closely enough they've all made adaptations to their particular bodies and styles that work. They've been pitching long enough that their mechanics can't be called bad for them, although some will certainly end up injured eventually. It comes with the territory.

In other words, if it works it isn't bad mechanics.
Last edited by CADad
NIC15NIC15100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by CADad:
Add up their salaries and then tell me just how bad their mechanics are!

Seriously, their mechanics are a mix but they've all found out what works for them.

Peavy looks open because of his finish but if you check at initial foot contact he's quite closed and actually as close to ideal as one could be. I don't like his finish with the lack of extension but it works.

Oswalt doesn't get too low, in fact the fact that he's so low makes his high fastball much more effective. His tempo is so different from anyone else's that you can't apply the norms to him especially relative to opening early.

Papelbon has made great adaptations for his way of pitching. He counter rotates and swings his leg around so he's going to tend to look open. He strides closed to keep from being excessively early with his arm. I'd sure like my son to have these "terrible mechanics". He gets great drive, and they are relatively easy on the arm for how hard he throws.

Haren has IMO great mechanics.

Verlander jerks his head at release and strides a bit open, pitchers who stride straight to the plate can get away with striding a bit more open, but it works just fine so I won't call his mechanics bad.

Out of this group there are several whose mechanics I look at and don't particularly like but when you look closely enough they've all made adaptations to their particular bodies and styles that work. They've been pitching long enough that their mechanics can't be called bad for them, although some will certainly end up injured eventually. It comes with the territory.

In other words, if it works it isn't bad mechanics.



Well the topic is not about their salaries, or how good they are. They are professionals period so they are doing something right. Now just because they are professionals and it works for them does that mean that they dont have bad mechanics? I think not.

These guys are extrememly talented athletes, No one can argue that, but this does not mean they are without flaws.
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
Everybody has flaws, but that doesn't mean they have bad mechanics. Pitching mechanics are very individual and although there are guidelines one tends to use they have to be modified to suit individuals. If landing ball of the foot first was "good mechanics" then most major league pitchers would land ball of the foot first. Most major league pitchers don't land ball of the foot first and those that do are generally very close to landing flat.

One of the cues which makes sense in teaching 8 year olds who happen to be excessively heel first is to land ball of the foot first. Generally the result of that cue is for the youngster to land flat or close to flat. It is just a cue and truly landing ball of the foot first can lead to lost momentum and is not a good thing for most pitchers. Being excessively heel first can be jarring and impact command but I don't think anyone is going to try to change Frankie Rodriguez' mechanics because they work for him. I doubt he'd have that power curveball if he didn't land excessively heel first.
Last edited by CADad
T Tonyjh34Member
Tom House and Bill Thurston teach staying on the balls of the feet. You are more efficient transfering weight from ball foot to ball foot. You can heel touch first or land flat but when the pitcher pulls with his stride leg during the "pull phase" the weight will have to go onto the ball of the foot so the pitcher has leverage for the pull.
P Prime91,000+ posts
Analyzing video "might" show where foot strike occurs for a particular pitcher. However, I don't know how you determine from that which is preferable.

I would think it just demonstrates that particular athletes predisposition or trained movements over the years. Perhaps, more athletic pitchers (those having a more varied athletic background) land more forward on the ball than less athletic players? Thus, they have better BALANCE.

When would a Sports Coach ever recommend being flat-footed? I don't believe track athletes are taught heel strike or flat foot landings. Again, can you really tell, without floors with cameras and sensors, what hits first especially when defining flat or ball? A fighter, martial artist, gymnast, basketball player, defensive back, etc, wouldn't ever prefer to be caught on his heels, or move heel strike first. JMO based upon my experiences, observations.
Last edited by Prime9

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