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Son just turned 12yrs old in July and I was wondering if a longtoss program would be good to start him on... He has the bands but primarily want to know if he should longtoss everyday or every other day.. And what other workouts should he do this off season...e.i...long distance running or just sprints or any body weight exercises.. Any advice would truly help!..
Thanks!...
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Bum, Jr. has long-tossed 5-6x week since age 12, year-round and it has certainly paid off. Just remember that long-tossing is not "pitching". Please do a search on this website and you will see a lot of comments on long-toss, especially the Jaeger method.

Hey dad.. just remember that at age 11 the most important thing is for your kid to have fun.

As far as "workouts" and "sprints" I would just have to say it's far too early right now.
Jason145,

quote:
“Son just turned 12yrs old in July”


This is the critical time when learning what your sons Biological age is makes the largest difference, is he an accelerated, equated or delayed maturer? If he was one or two years behind you must treat him as though he were a biological 10 YO and would hold off on
Maximal effort training, If he is one year accelerated say biologically 13, ½ of the growth plates in the Elbow are closing (at this time a little more stress can be added) and the rest (Elbow) don’t close until he is biologically 16 (more stress can now be added).
At biological age 19 all the growth plates have fully closed and year round training and competition should be accomplished unless your mechanics dictate that you need a pitch count and 6 months off from injurious mechanics! Then you must get on the train then rest-detrain (actually recovery, not rest) cycle that is in use with this traditional pitching mechanical following.

quote:
“I was wondering if a longtoss program would be good to start him on”


Yes if he is biologically 13 and only with emphasis on mechanics by performing the proper Crow step mechanics that automatically allows you to transition with the correct timing by allowing your glove side foot to arrive to plant at the same time your ball arm arrives to driveline height (top of head straight back thumb up) that eliminates many injurious problems that occur with traditional pitching type of throws and allows you to replicate a game condition outfield throw to a cut off man on a line. Remember you don’t have to actually throw with length to throw maximally no matter what anybody tells you and the effect of throwing a 5.5 oz. object is to gain speed through (underload training) fast twitch recruitment not to gain functional (overload training) strength and it is not necessary to perform at maximal velocity at this point in his growth cycle.

There is not one clinical study involving 12 cyo and how many maximal throws they can perform safely with the many forms of mechanics let alone adding in the most important aspect of Biological age!

A real good measure that shows itself continually in long –toss at all levels is Ulnar nerve taxing limit, when your kid says he feels tingling in his ball hand little, ring and the outer half of the middle finger they have gone to far! All youth athletes are way to weak from non-sport specific training to withstand ballistic training specifically.

quote:
“primarily want to know if he should longtoss everyday or every other day”


If this is for pitching, he should be learning how to command pitches with movement to both sides (Pronating all pitches) at this age not training for maximal ballistic activity yet!

He has a genetically set speed potential that he will never loose, it does not need to be in continual high maintenance like a young adult or adult at his age!

quote:
“And what other workouts should he do this off season”


This age group does not need cardio; he should be on a light field agility program.
He can throw some every day if he is not using the “traditional pitching mechanics”.
He should periodize by doing other activities but can still work on many lower (other than competitive pitching or maximal toss) impact baseball fundamentals, clinically! That are a 100 fold better for him than games!

It’s great to hear he has an off season, I believe per capita the northern states will produce more healthy pitchers than the southern ones because of the proliferation of year round club ball that is destroying more of their best arms.

He should not be competitively pitching more than three consecutive months (minimum to still have competition, (actually should be lower) 2 innings a week at biologically 12 Years old. Again, most youth pitchers are the accelerated maturers whom are fast twitchers and bare the burden of having to pitch most of the innings and conversely we loose many of these faster arms early and also later, this should be spread out more through rules but since it is not the parents have to set actual edict limits them selves.
Bum,
quote:
“yardbird, believe it or not it is entirely possible to work in 100+ games up north.”

I hear ya; this makes it possible to over play those pitchers also! It’s easier on the west coast but still difficult with fewer opportunities.
I played on the west coast up north in College and we were always in the fieldhouse but we were biological adults whom should have been training and competing year round.
Pick a state from Idaho heading east and you’ve got my picture

When talking youth we need to quit bringing many of the adult training methods down to them.
quote:
“Spring, Summer, and Fall are for baseball but Winter for training”

For youth this should read Spring for baseball, summer for vacation, fall and winter for training and other activities. Adults should train and compete year round. Rest = atrophy.

How does Bum Jr. perform his long throws? Or does he train completely different because of College edicts; this is a real problem with my group. They are used to throwing iron balls and wrist weights with out any long toss (they maximal toss off the bump) then have to change their Sport Specific training patterns to fit the coach’s non-specific ones.

Does he follow Jaegers “pogo hop” mechanical throw where they step behind and resembles the traditional pitching mechanic?

Does he transition the same way when he throws long as when he is on the mound?
I have found that none of them do! Their mechanics in long toss are completely different than pitching. This is why it is safer when training for speed (long toss) with traditional pitchers because the mechanic is safer.

Our goal is to bring the Crow-step maximal toss throw to the mound, this is why we like correct maximal toss.
Hi jason145, I have to agree with Bum, what ever you are doing you need to make it fun for the 12 year old "prospect".

One thing I used to do with my son was start the throwing warm up and move the distance out until he struggled to get the ball to me. By the way, it did not take too long before I was the one struggling to get the ball there!

Anyway, once you reach the "MAX" distance put a target up for him with your glove and move it around; high, low, right, left. At first I could hit his target more than he hit mine but again, that did not last long.

We had fun with it and he soon out distanced me. I ended up getting a bucket to put the balls in and we would go through a couple of buckets at least three times a week. On the rare occasion we throw, he still wants me to give him a target; I have no chance of hitting his target anymore!
Last edited by AL MA 08
quote:
Originally posted by Yardbird:
For youth this should read Spring for baseball, summer for vacation, fall and winter for training and other activities.

Their mechanics in long toss are completely different than pitching.


No, just playing spring baseball will leave a kid behind the curve, assuming you're talking about ages 13+. All of the kids out of Bum, Jr.'s area that got drafted played 80-100 games a year.

Also no about the mechanics. His mechanics do not change between pitching and long toss. As far as his long toss regimine, that's out of my hands now so I have no idea.
quote:
Originally posted by Yardbird:
For youth this should read Spring for baseball, summer for vacation, fall and winter for training and other activities.

Their mechanics in long toss are completely different than pitching.


No, just playing spring baseball will leave a kid behind the curve,

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