HiddenGem visits Yeager

My son went to see Chris Yeager....Great experience.

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Originally posted by deemax:
There was a thread on another site that had this heading and got erased. I was only half way through it, and was hoping to pick up the coversation here.

Went a lil' like this.

Pro player (David Matranga) visits with Steve Englishby, Chris Yeager, and compares his experiences with both. Englishby came in to post and wasnt to thrilled......

I really wanted to finish reading it.

I'm not sure why you want to bring an argument that was deleted on another site to this site. I'd suggest that, this thread will endure the same fate. You were able to read Englishbey's rational which was in great detail and did mention that Matranga's total time spent with Englishbey was 3 hours. In consideration of the time it takes any person to change ingrained habits, I'd not only suggest that Englishbey's posts explained this in great detail but also suggest that while Matranga had some initial success with the suggestion made by Yeager, they have not been implimented for any substantial length of time.

deemax, why didn't you post this on the site where all of the trouble was? I'm going to give Julie a detailed explaination of the deleted thread and then let her determine if this should stay up here. However, I don't personally appreciate trying to create on this site arguments that were deleted on other sites. That is, in fact how that thread was started when posts from yet another 3rd site which is private were introduced on BBF.

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I'm not sure why you want to bring an argument that was deleted on another site to this site. I'd suggest that, this thread will endure the same fate.

JP said that he would delete any future threads involving this topic in a sticky that he has since erased.

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You were able to read Englishbey's rational which was in great detail and did mention that Matranga's total time spent with Englishbey was 3 hours.

How do you know what I was able to read? I was really interesed in this discussion and got cut off by the censors.

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I'm going to give Julie a detailed explaination of the deleted thread and then let her determine if this should stay up here.

Go ahead. Why would Julie take down a thread that has been up for 3 days and has three responses? IMO you have a vested intrest in an intructor. I dont care what you teach, who you teach, or who you want to protect. I started to read an interesting conversation on another site and wanted to continue it, or at least get to read it before it got censored.

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However, I don't personally appreciate trying to create on this site arguments that were deleted on other sites.

I DONT POST TO APPEASE WHAT YOU APPRECIATE. This has nothing to do with you... nothing. I wanted to finish reading something that may or may not have had merit.... guess ill never know.

A pro player visits two highly discussed forum hitting gurus. His opinions matter to me, and Im guessing im not alone.

Deemax, how can you read on this site what was deleted on another? Also, Englishbey's response was on the second page. You stated that you had read, "half way through it." Not only was SE's response on the second page, another was on the 3rd and well and Hiddengem's responses on pages 2 and 3 of a thread that was over 8 pages long. You post on a site that Hiddengem posts on every week. You can't pm him to ask? I believe he also posts on HI. You, from what I hear, frequent that site as well. Therefore, why not use one of the sites you know he frequents.

After doing a Membership search, I don't see Hiddengem registered on this site at all. Perhaps if you know his identity and that he's registered on this site, you'll let us in on it.

I might add, with regards to whom I'm "protecting" that I sent a pm detailing what other information was contained at the end of that thread and suggested as to a reason that thread was taken down. I attempted to use some sense of class not only by asking a 3rd party to read and evaluate the merits of this thread but also to prevent the information pmed to you from appearing on this site. It would serve no positive purpose.

Edited to add:

I will again state that the argument started on another site. Why would I allow that "****" that was deleted over there to be posted here. Do you think less of us? Do you believe that any constructive argument will occur? You know exactly what will happen. Member of HI will post. Members of SE's group will post. The "stuff" will be stirred. Names will be dragged through the mud and the thread will be locked or deleted. So, why are you taking me to task for suggesting first that I don't appreciate being put in this position becuase I believe you know 100% where the thread will lead AND that I'll be attacked when I do what I have to do as the moderator as was the moderator on the other site?

quote:

Originally posted by deemax:
There was a thread on another site that had this heading and got erased. I was only half way through it, and was hoping to pick up the coversation here.

Went a lil' like this.

Pro player visits with Steve Englishby, Chris Yeager, and compares his experiences with both. Englishby came in to post and wasnt to thrilled......

I really wanted to finish reading it.

Bee..I really don't think the thread should have been taken down, I had some unfinished reading to do as well...I PM'd the moderator and asked that the childish actions of Mr.Englishbey (smearing my name all over his posts.)be addressed.

His response was that the thread was a PITA, and that he was just going to take down the whole thing. I believe he admits he's biased towards SE, and proabably played a factor in his decision.

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Deemax, how can you read on this site what was deleted on another?

JP is not the enforcer of the whole internet. I personally have had many posts deleted their that would not have sniffed being deleted here.

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Do you think less of us? Do you believe that any constructive argument will occur? You know exactly what will happen. Member of HI will post. Members of SE's group will post. The "stuff" will be stirred. Names will be dragged through the mud and the thread will be locked or deleted.

Delete/lock what ever you want, protect whoever you want. Again, I was reading something interesting that got censored before I got to finish.

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Also, Englishbey's response was on the second page. You stated that you had read, "half way through it." Not only was SE's response on the second page, another was on the 3rd and well and Hiddengem's responses on pages 2 and 3 of a thread that was over 8 pages long.

And? I didnt know the thread even made it to 8 pages. I worked, came home, and poof... it was gone. Whats your point? I started something I wanted to finish... didnt get to... now Im answering your baited questions...

HGs discussion on his visit with these instructors had potential......

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I believe he also posts on HI. You, from what I hear, frequent that site as well. Therefore, why not use one of the sites you know he frequents.

I dont subscribe to HI, and have never posted there....ever. I dont know who frequents what site, or care. What you hear is wrong.

I dont have an axe to grind, or a guru to defend. I just wanted to continue what I thought started as an interesting read. How often does a pro hitter take the time to discuss to internet hacks his experience with different instructors?

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So, why are you taking me to task for suggesting first that I don't appreciate being put in this position becuase I believe you know 100% where the thread will lead AND that I'll be attacked when I do what I have to do as the moderator as was the moderator on the other site?

This is not about YOU. If you feel that you have to lock up a thread that only you and I are participating in then fine. Who really cares about this thread anyway?...just look at the responses.

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After doing a Membership search, I don't see Hiddengem registered on this site at all. Perhaps if you know his identity and that he's registered on this site, you'll let us in on it.

I dont know if HG reads or posts hear either. It would be good for the HSBBW if he did though. If he has a secret identity, and I find it, I will be sure to let you know.

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After doing a Membership search, I don't see Hiddengem registered on this site at all. Perhaps if you know his identity and that he's registered on this site, you'll let us in on it.

Try HG.

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Originally posted by deemax:

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After doing a Membership search, I don't see Hiddengem registered on this site at all. Perhaps if you know his identity and that he's registered on this site, you'll let us in on it.

Try HG.

amazing,,, really it is.

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Originally posted by deemax:

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After doing a Membership search, I don't see Hiddengem registered on this site at all. Perhaps if you know his identity and that he's registered on this site, you'll let us in on it.

Try HG.

That's funny.

Here's my two cents...

First of all, CoachB25, I frequent HI. I do it because there is some good information on there on hitting. I pick no sides in the hitting debates on here, and I think I can vouch for my brother by saying he does the same. I/we are interested in good information on hitting, that is all. If it comes from someone at HI, Steve E, HG, whoever, we are open to it and will listen.

I understand that some have burned bridges within our community of posters that frequent these sites. Again, many, including my brother and I, do not care because we do not bother to get caught up in it. It is oftentimes unproductive and serves no better purpose than retarding education of the baseball swing.

The baseball swing is light years behind the golf swing IMO for the study done on it. Granted, there are more variables involved in baseball than in golf because you are hitting a moving object, but nevertheless, when it comes to video breakdown and overall instruction, the baseball swing is vague at best.

I encourage people to take a more open approach to learning about hitting rather than choosing sides on who to believe. Nobody has it all figured out, and anybody that tells you they do needs to have their head checked. If the communities here and at other sites can take themselves a little less seriously and keep personal attacks out of the picture, I think we will all be better for it.

At the end of the day all of us on here want to learn something new and helpful about baseball, right?

So that's my vote to keep this thread and others open. Lets relax and talk hitting while leaving out personal grudges.

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Nobody has it all figured out

Not true. What about Mike Marshall

quote:

Originally posted by deemax:

quote:

Nobody has it all figured out

Not true. What about Mike Marshall

You took the alley oop and threw that one down...

uh oh. Everytime a guru gets slighted, a disciple runs to the defense.

you mentioned Marshall...and opened the door to the return of CoachChris.

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Originally posted by wogdoggy:

quote:

Originally posted by deemax:

quote:

After doing a Membership search, I don't see Hiddengem registered on this site at all. Perhaps if you know his identity and that he's registered on this site, you'll let us in on it.

Try HG.

amazing,,, really it is.

Wogdoggy, I don't understand the point of this post and if the remark should suggest that HG has been a member for any length of time. So, to clarify, HG registered after this thread was started AND I made my membership search.

BeeMax, that was a nice post. I agree in principle. I think in practice those points I made earlier are going to happen. However...

The quote below from beemax's post is very true.

These words only seem to be part of a few baseball
people on the internet. It's really disappointing that such a great tool for brainstorming the swing is for the most part being wasted. From experiences with new product development it only takes a few well intended people to brainstorm a concept - often with amazing results produced.

quote:

I encourage people to take a more open approach to learning about hitting rather than choosing sides on who to believe. Nobody has it all figured out, and anybody that tells you they do needs to have their head checked. If the communities here and at other sites can take themselves a little less seriously and keep personal attacks out of the picture, I think we will all be better for it.

jimo

quote:

Originally posted by wayback:
uh oh. Everytime a guru gets slighted, a disciple runs to the defense.

This is exactly what I was talking about NOT liking on these forums. Is there anything that you have to offer in terms of hitting in this forum?

This is an altered post from another thread here in the Hitting Fourm.


First,who deserves the credit for player development? Would you say it was any one instructor? Was it a HS coach? Was it your college coach? Was it your most recent instruction at the professional level? Finally, was it your most recent private instruction?

How many lessons does it take to change an ingrained habit? Can one lesson of any duration do the trick? If so, does that instructor then receive "credit" or are there other factors that could weigh in such as playing against lesser competition on a given day. In other words, factors not related to the training BUT possibly major contributors to success.

Personally, I don't know any instructor that can or does take total credit for any player's climb in professional ball or any other level of achievement. I've been fortunate to coach several players that have progressed to the professional ranks and have played at various levels including the majors. When discussing them, yes, I take credit to a degree. Let's be honest, my degree of credit is like a grain of sand in the desert. I'd suggest that development is a two way street. I made suggestion, I can't play for them. It's that simple. I'd also suggest that finger pointing is easy in lieu of any number of circumstances where we are grasping for anything to stay at a level we've desired all of our lives. It that justified? It is human nature. JMHO!

quote:

Originally posted by CoachB25:
This is an altered post from another thread here in the Hitting Fourm.


First,who deserves the credit for player development? Would you say it was any one instructor? Was it a HS coach? Was it your college coach? Was it your most recent instruction at the professional level? Finally, was it your most recent private instruction?

How many lessons does it take to change an ingrained habit? Can one lesson of any duration do the trick? If so, does that instructor then receive "credit" or are there other factors that could weigh in such as playing against lesser competition on a given day. In other words, factors not related to the training BUT possibly major contributors to success.

Personally, I don't know any instructor that can or does take total credit for any player's climb in professional ball or any other level of achievement. I've been fortunate to coach several players that have progressed to the professional ranks and have played at various levels including the majors. When discussing them, yes, I take credit to a degree. Let's be honest, my degree of credit is like a grain of sand in the desert. I'd suggest that development is a two way street. I made suggestion, I can't play for them. It's that simple. I'd also suggest that finger pointing is easy in lieu of any number of circumstances where we are grasping for anything to stay at a level we've desired all of our lives. It that justified? It is human nature. JMHO!

Very good quote here, and points that I believe all posters on here should consider.

There is only so much credit that an instructor can take for a student's success. After all, the player is the one swinging the bat or throwing the ball, etc.

It is human nature to want to prove that your idea is better than mine, or vise versa. IMO if we can combine ideas and talk about them minus personal attacks, we can disagree while not degrading each other.

quote:

beemax
Member
Posted June 23, 2008 05:05 PM Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by deemax:

quote:
Nobody has it all figured out

Not true. What about Mike Marshall


You took the alley oop and threw that one down...

"This is exactly what I was talking about NOT liking on these forums. Is there anything that you have to offer in terms of hitting in this forum?"


That's arrogant of you given the remarks above. Is there a minimum post limit before one can post sarecastic humor? Or, is that limited to only you?

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Is there a minimum post limit before one can post sarecastic humor? Or, is that limited to only you?

The minimum posts required for sarcastic humor is 233 set forth in the HSBBW guidlines paragraph 12 line 22. Beemax is clearly over that.

quote:

Originally posted by wayback:
"This is exactly what I was talking about NOT liking on these forums. Is there anything that you have to offer in terms of hitting in this forum?"


That's arrogant of you given the remarks above. Is there a minimum post limit before one can post sarecastic humor? Or, is that limited to only you?

There is a difference between sarcastic humor and personal attacks. I'm not going to get into Marshall other than he actually said he had it all figured out.

If you want to talk more about Marshall there are many threads on BBF about him or you can go on the pitching forum here.

I didn't find your post sarcastic, sorry if it was meant to be.

If you have been reading the other posts in this thread you may have seen that I actually have talked about hitting on here.

the jab wasn't at Marshall....it was at CoachChris not posting here in some time. It was meant as humor.

quote:

Originally posted by wayback:
the jab wasn't at Marshall....it was at CoachChris not posting here in some time. It was meant as humor.

I think we are all straightened out now. Let's talk hitting.

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Originally posted by CoachB25:

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Originally posted by wogdoggy:

quote:

Originally posted by deemax:

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After doing a Membership search, I don't see Hiddengem registered on this site at all. Perhaps if you know his identity and that he's registered on this site, you'll let us in on it.

Try HG.

amazing,,, really it is.

Wogdoggy, I don't understand the point of this post and if the remark should suggest that HG has been a member for any length of time. So, to clarify, HG registered after this thread was started AND I made my membership search.

BeeMax, that was a nice post. I agree in principle. I think in practice those points I made earlier are going to happen. However...

amazing that the thread was taken off..no doubt

I have not removed any thread! If your reference is to the other site, take that up with them.

I thought this thread was about someone's visit to see Yeager.

We (my 9 year old) and I just got back last night from a great session. This was our third and it was dy-no-mite.

On our first two visits we focused a lot on getting the back leg loaded and pushing hard against the ground and blocking effectively with our front leg and also pushing. My boy still "spins" a bit because of all that bug squashing he was taught. But, we are working it out of him.

Yeager has some nice drills that emphasize (or more appropriately isolate) some specific body parts so that you feel what he is teaching. I like the emphasis on "feeling" what you are learning. It burns in better and the muscle memory takes a hold quicker.

I really like the way he emphasizes the body movements of a middle infielder into what he is teaching with hitting. We incorporate those body movements into our T work as well.

If all hitting instructors stopped teaching "squashing the bug" hitting a baseball would be a lot simpler. It has been said that is three times as difficult to un-learn something that it would have been to learn it right the first time.........I believe it.

Rajun Cajun,

Great stuff. Do you have any film from the session or a before/after of your son for us to look at? As far as I know, your son is the only young player that Yeager has worked with that anyone has bothered to post. I think it would be great to see the progress.

Thanks - JJA

quote:

Originally posted by jja:
Rajun Cajun,

Great stuff. Do you have any film from the session or a before/after of your son for us to look at? As far as I know, your son is the only young player that Yeager has worked with that anyone has bothered to post. I think it would be great to see the progress.

Thanks - JJA

Over at HittingIllustrated, HiddenGem and retkag speak of their respective visits with him.

What interested me so much with Rajun Cajun is that it is a youth player starting out. I would love to see how Yeager takes a typical beginning player and modifies their swings.

ANY bashing of Dr.Marshall will be readily acceptable here, so have at it!

“IMO if we can combine ideas and talk about them minus personal attacks, we can disagree while not degrading each other.” “I have not removed any thread!”

You or somebody else has removed most of the past Marshall threads and you definitely let some pretty bad stuff float through here about Marshall at will.

Be honest!

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Originally posted by Yardbird:
ANY bashing of Dr.Marshall will be readily acceptable here, so have at it!

“IMO if we can combine ideas and talk about them minus personal attacks, we can disagree while not degrading each other.” “I have not removed any thread!”

You or somebody else has removed most of the past Marshall threads and you definitely let some pretty bad stuff float through here about Marshall at will.

Be honest!

Any actions I take as a moderator are followed by a pm to that individual. Honest? That is a subject that many individuals could use a big does of.

Sounds fair in practice.

Hide Post
"What interested me so much with Rajun Cajun is that it is a youth player starting out. I would love to see how Yeager takes a typical beginning player and modifies their swings."

When I was Dr. Yeager he said a lot of the same things to me that he teaches his younger players. He has been at this a while and understands how to teach players. The cues and teachings he uses make a lot of sense to the baseball player.

retkag