High Academic College Admissions

class rank is like any other statistic---a relative number----what is more important is the academiic strength of your high school

You are fine, SAT score?

Nice job!

BOF,

I haven't taken the SAT yet. I want to conquer the ACT before I worry about the SAT.

You're just fine, DLOCK. Assuming you can play at the level of baseball that the school you're applying at, your scores/ranks are well within range.

My son had similar scores and he is playing at a very high level academic school.

Head Coach asked these questions:
1) What did you make on the ACT?
2) What's your grade point average?
3) What's your class rank?

He left the details to the assistant but the answers my son gave him were enough that he said admission wasn't going to be an issue.

Stanwood,

Are they Ivy League high? I didn't think they were.

I sent you a PM, DLOCK.

DLOCK,

Your numbers are almost identical to my son and he was admitted to every school he applied to except Harvard who at the last minute wanted him to get another 100pts on his SAT. He hung up and laughed and said yeah right that is going to happen in the next 3 weeks... He did get a pre read OK to one Ivy. Anyway he did better on the SAT than ACT, liked the format FWIW.

Just a FYI you are low end IVY, depending on how you do on SAT.

Keep working hard, if you have any decent baseball skills you will play somewhere.

quote:

Originally posted by DLOCK15:
How important is classs rank in the admissions process for the top level academic schools (Ivies, Patriot League,etc...)? I go to the #3 ranked high school in my state and top 250 high school in the nation. I have a 4.42 GPA right now in all honors classes and a 30 on the ACT, but there are alot of kids in my class that have 4.6 and above GPA's so my class rank right now is 18 out of 105, which wouldn't put me even close to the top 10%. Will a class rank that isn't amazingly high be something that could keep me from getting admitted to a high level school? I was thinking fenwaysouth or HaverDad or anyone else with a kid at a high academic school could provide some insight.

Hi DLOCK, for what it is worth, many admissions offices will somewhat disregard rank in class in such a small school. Honestly, I don't know why a high school of that caliber and size would ever report exact rank in class. When the class size is only 105 it does a huge disservice to all students to even consider ranking.

So ask in guidance if they actually do report an exact rank.

And kick butt on your grades and SATs/ACTs. Don't forget to take subject tests this June also. (You may already realize that).

Good luck, keep working hard!

For Harvard, Yale, Princeton and Columbia, while your grades appear fine (assuming you are taking the most rigorous course load possible), your ACT probably needs to improve. Now, if you're the top recruit (you did not give us any baseball info), you may be able to get into those schools. If you're not the top recruit, try the SAT or retaking the ACT (perhaps with a review course). Dartmouth, Penn, Cornell, and Brown, have slightly lower (and it's really only slightly) standardized scores so the bar is not set quite as high at those schools. For, the Patriot schools you're fine.

quote:

How important is classs rank in the admissions process for the top level academic schools (Ivies, Patriot League,etc...)?

DLOCK15,

From what I've seen, read and heard the order of importance for Ivys is ; standardized tests, GPA, academic rigor, and then class rank. Keep in mind that GPA and Academic Rigor kind of go "hand in glove" or together. As BaseballmomandCEP suggests, an Admissions Officer or Admissions Committee (AdComm) can do what they want with class rank. They may or may not be familiar with your school system. AdComms will be more concerned with how you stack up against the entire applicant population. The same can be said for GPA too, which is why it is important that you do well on the national standardized tests; SAT & SAT2 or ACT. Each Ivy Admissions Dept will typically tell you what they are looking for in their applicants. The year my son applied to his school (engineering major), they were looking for academic rigor and how you learn...."do you learn on your own and how do you learn on your own?"

Your ACT score is good, but I agree with Goosegg that it could be more for Ivy consideration in general. You want to make it real easy for the Ivy coach to back you when he takes your credentials to Admissions. Your ACT converts to between a 1980 and 2040 by reviewing a few ACT to SAT conversion tables which is putting you on the lower end of the acceptable Ivy range. BOF's Harvard example (above) doesn't surprise me at all. Just as you would want to put your best baseball combine numbers at a Showcase, you'll want to put the best possible academic "foot forward" with your SAT/ACT numbers. You'll want to make it easier for the coach to recruit you.

Overall Harvard, Yale, & Princeton will be the toughest to get into, followed by (alphabetically!)Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth & Penn overall. If you have the coaches backing it really won't matter too much what college within the Universtity you are applying into. It will matter considerably if you apply without the coaches backing....that is a totally different situation.

With all of this being said, I think it is important to understand that each of these Ivy schools is profoundly different in terms of what they do well. They get lumped together because of an athletic conference affiliation, but they are very, very different. So, depending on what you want to study, one or a few of these schools may be a good fit for you.

Feel free to PM me if you have questions. Best of luck!

Just realized this and thought I should mention it to see if it affects any of the responses I have received. My 4.42 GPA is for this semester only. The honors program at my high school doesn't start until junior year, so I just had a 4.0 my first 2 years of high school. So basically if I keep up the pace I'm at now, my cumulative GPA after 3 years of high school will be around 4.15. Does this affect the answers that anyone has given me so far?

DLOCK15

You have a PM.

As a freshman at a high academic school, I can tell you that admission statistics are all relative to each specific situation. I scored a 32 on my ACT, had a 3.84 weighted GPA at one of the best high schools in Texas and had a class rank of 128/640, but had a really impressive workload that involved me taking 10 AP classes. My gpa and class rank were not too high because I struggled with the AP sciences and maths (I'm an english/political science major), but my willingness to really push myself in areas I struggle in shined far brighter than my bad class rank and gpa.

I can promise you ALOT more about college admissions lies on your entire package than simply statistics. I had some awesome references, essays, etc. and was blessed enough to get into schools such as Wash U., Carleton, Macalester, and my current school (UAA school).

Nobody here can tell you for sure if your ACT/SAT/GPA/Class rank can get you into a school because we're not admissions officers at those respective schools, but as somebody who is 1 year removed from the process, I can promise you it all comes down to whether admissions truly likes you as a person and if they feel you can contribute to the school academically, socially, and extracurricular-ly. Other than that, its all in God's Hands.

-Heat

High - you are correct as to the admissions process as it applies to non-recruited baseball players (regular students).

However, that is not the way it works with recruited baseball players. With recruited players, the entire holistic package is not at all important. What's important, once you are a desired recruit, are the stats (GPA, rigor, and scores) - and once you clear that hurdle (cleared by admissions), you're in.

Goosegg - I totally understand your point, but from my recent experience with admissions as a baseball recruit at high academic schools, pull from coaches varies (my coach doesn't have the best relationship with admissions) and sometimes admissions pools are so competitive that numbers aren't a guaranteed in. If you put out a well rounded application beyond numbers and have a really likeable application with great recs, it helps out tremendously more so than just riding a 34 ACT.

Goose, I'm not trying to discredit you whatsoever, but I did just go through this last year and dealt with the Swarthmore's and Wash U.'s, I think I have a pretty good idea how the process works.

Highheat15,

Congrats! Your recent experience is valueable info as it relates to D3 schools such as the ones you mentioned (WashU, Carelton, Macalester, Swarthmore, etc..) The OP should pay close attention to how things work in that D3 world, and how it could apply to him. The OP lumped high academic schools together Ivy, Patriot, D3s. However, each can be very, very different from the other in terms of recruiting process and admissions for athletes.

It is a different world in the Ivys. I specifically addressed Ivys, and I'm guessing Goosegg was doing the same. Ivys have an Academic Index (AI) that combines exactly what Goosegg is referencing including GPA, SATS or ACT, class rank. So, if a coach knows you meet a certain AI number within the range (171 to 240), he knows your chances of getting admitted. So in that Ivy world the stats are tremendously important for a recruit to get over that hurdle. If you are an Ivy recruit, understanding the AI is important. You can google it, or review this doc which is very general.

Understanding the Ivy AI

Best of luck this Spring.

high heat - you did a nice job of explaining how it works. Goosegg is also right. A coach may get some extra leeway with a kid who can make a huge difference to a program. My guy is at Swat- they really do use a wholastic approach - but, given that- 30 is a little low. They will want to know that you REALLY challenged yourself in the classroom. Can you really make a difference on the field, both by your play and your character?
Remember, these schools are intense places. Character means a lot. In the Ivy, the Ivy Index can be used as a cop out or a tool for the coach. In one instance the index is used to eliminate marginal recruits, in another it is used to boost the team's average with a kid who may not be a lock to contribute on the field. I'm sorry its this complicated, but there are no pat answers. You've received good advice here. Feel free to PM me about specific schools that may have recruited our son

High is correct when it comes to high academic D3's - in those schools the coach mostly flags or gives a list to admissions and admissions treats the application as one of many (giving the coach's request whatever consideration the school deems appropriate). In those D3's, recruiting is much more a **** shoot for players and the player needs to cast a wide net and apply to a broad range of schools which are interested in him playing baseball. So, in that situation, applying to reach schools and safety schools would be prudent.

The Ivy's, patriot, and actually all D1's are different: if you are recruited, you just need to make the academic cut - no more and no less.

I see many players making a verbal commitment to a college in their junior year of high school (some even earlier). How does this tie in with the admissions process? I know that a verbal commitment isn’t a binding commitment, but does the HC have a pretty good idea about the prospect’s chances of acceptance before the actual admissions process? There’s no sense committing to a school that you can’t get in. The prospect would not be applying for admission until well into his senior year of high school; would he be working with Admission prior to that?

quote:

Originally posted by MidAtlanticDad:
I see many players making a verbal commitment to a college in their junior year of high school (some even earlier). How does this tie in with the admissions process? I know that a verbal commitment isn’t a binding commitment, but does the HC have a pretty good idea about the prospect’s chances of acceptance before the actual admissions process? There’s no sense committing to a school that you can’t get in. The prospect would not be applying for admission until well into his senior year of high school; would he be working with Admission prior to that?

A lot depends on the particular school one is committing to. A Jr. or Soph. may commit to a college, but unless the player and meet the academic admission requirements, the commitment doesn't really mean anything. Even when a National Letter of Intent is signed, if the play can't get the academic side meant with the admissions office when the player graduates HS, then the player is going to have to look elsewhere. But keep in mind that the admission's academic requirements for a player that's offered a scholarship is most often a little lower that just any student applying otherwise.

So you're right in that "there's no sense in committing to a school that you can't get in." However, to determine that, one will need to look very close as to where the line is actually drawn for the student-athlete.