The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly. Let's hear it all!
Some mood music to start us off!
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If they had these rules when I was tearing up the south side of Salem,OR I doubt I'd have made it out of seventh grade.
With that said, a few whacks on the head from the Code Book would have done me some good.
My advise to anyone who does not agree with the Code of Conduct currently in place, too strict or too lax, should get involved to try and change them to your satisfaction.
If they had these rules when I was tearing up the south side of Salem,OR I doubt I'd have made it out of seventh grade.
With that said, a few whacks on the head from the Code Book would have done me some good.
My advise to anyone who does not agree with the Code of Conduct currently in place, too strict or too lax, should get involved to try and change them to your satisfaction.
Good advice as usual woody.
Does everyone see the COC being universally applied in your school, or do you see some random application based on who the violator(s) happens to be? Are there schools out there that do NOT have an athletic code?
Does everyone see the COC being universally applied in your school, or do you see some random application based on who the violator(s) happens to be? Are there schools out there that do NOT have an athletic code?
If they would have had these rules in my HS we would have had zero extra curricular activities. Kinda hard to play sports with only 3 kids available at the most. 2 cheerleaders, maybe, 5 people in band, no student government, no chess club. Every HS party had alcohol and/or drugs. I am not saying it is right, but we survived and that was how it was in the 80's at my home town. Maybe that is why the rules are so strict now. Those party kids are now the parents.
CODE OF CONDUCT
The District proudly encourages and
supports students who elect to represent
the school in extracurricular and/or co-curricular
activities. The District believes in
the valuable results of mental, social and
physical development of the student body.
Students who participate in extracurricular
and/or co-curricular activities represent The District
year round. As such, participation
is a privilege, not a right and all student representatives
of The District activities must
adhere to the following rules and regulations,
seven days a week, twelve months a
year, whether or not school is in session as a
condition of participation.
The following requirements, procedures
and consequences relate to participation
and eligibility in extracurricular and/or
co-curricular activities only and do not preclude
the imposition of sanctions up to and
including suspension and/or expulsion from
school as outlined in the student discipline
code where appropriate.
PREREQUISITE
REQUIREMENTS
Any student who intends to participate and/
or actively participate in any extracurricular
and/or co-curricular activity on behalf of
The District must:
1. Submit a signed permission form by
the student’s parent and/or guardian
consenting to participating in an extracurricular
and/or co-curricular activity,
prior to the student’s first extracurricular
and/or co-curricular activity of the
school year.
2. Agree to abide by all rules and regulations
of the Illinois High School Association
and all rules and policies contained
in the The District Parent-Student
Handbook.
3. Attend a Code of Conduct seminar
with a parent and/or guardian prior to
the student’s first extracurricular and/or
co-curricular contest/activity.
4. Sign a Code of Conduct contract.
Attendance at school is required for a half
a day or more to be eligible to participate in
that day’s extracurricular and/or co-curricular
activity. An absence on the last day of the
school week will not preclude participation
in a weekend activity. Emergencies and prearranged
absences will not be considered
absences.
PROCEDURE
Procedures to follow related to Code of
Conduct issues:
1. An investigation will be initiated.
2. Prior to the decision to impose any
penalty, the student-offender will be
informed of the alleged violation and
afforded an opportunity to make any
statement on his/her behalf.
3. If a code of conduct violation has been
determined:
• Contact parents/guardian to set a
meeting date with the student, parent
and school officials to discuss the
code of conduct violation.
• School Officials/Parents may opt to
do a phone conference in lieu of a
face-to-face meeting.
• This meeting must occur within 24
hours of a determination of the violation,
when practicable, or the next
school day following the determination
of the violation.
• If the parent/guardian is unable
to meet within this time frame,
the penalty will be imposed
pending a later-scheduled meeting.
4. A follow-up letter will be sent to the
student and parents regarding violation/
consequences, and notifying them
of their right of a review of the penalty
with the school building principal.
5. The right to review does not postpone
the penalty imposition. The decision
of the school building principal shall
be final and is not subject to further
review.
6. Penalties imposed pursuant to this
Code of Conduct relate to the student’s
eligibility to participate in The District
extracurricular and/or co-curricular
activities only and does not preclude the
imposition of penalties for violations of
The District Parent-Student Handbook
rules and policies where appropriate.
Penalties imposed for rule violations
conducted in the course of co-curricular
activity shall not be in the form of grade
punishment.
7. Where a penalty is imposed, the student-
offender will be removed from a
leadership position (i.e. officer of the
Student Council, leadership with any
school-sponsored club or activity, any
class officer position, and any leadership
on any athletic team) in any extracurricular
and/or co-curricular for the
duration of the season/ activity.
PROHIBITED CONDUCT
No The District student participating in any
extracurricular and/or co-curricular activity
shall:
1. Possess, use, distribute or sell, or
attempt to possess, use, distribute or
sell, drugs, any substance represented
to be a drug, controlled substances,
drug paraphernalia, alcohol, tobacco
and/or tobacco products.
2. Knowingly remain in the immediate
presence of any person who is illegally
using, possessing, distributing or selling
drugs, any substance represented to be
a drug, controlled substance, cannabis,
drug paraphernalia, or alcohol, unless
the student could not leave the person’s
presence without endangering himself/
herself or others.
3. Commit and/or attempt to commit,
and/or knowingly remain within the
presence of one who commits and/or
attempts to commit the offense of
hazing, theft, assault, vandalism, illegal
use of a weapon, or any other offense,
which may be punishable by a court of
law.
4. Use inappropriate, vulgar, lewd, indecent
and/or derogatory language while representing
the school at an extracurricular
or co-curricular event.
5. Misuse school buildings, facilities and/or
equipment.
6. Commit acts, which would bring disrepute
to the extracurricular program in
which the student is a participant.
7. Fail to abide by any other The District
rule and/or policy as identified in the
The District Parent-Student Handbook***
and/or the rules and regulations of the
Illinois High School Association.
***21 other pages***
CONSEQUENCES
In General. Failure to abide by any provision
contained in this Code of Conduct may
result in temporary suspension from the
activity; disqualification from the activity
for the remainder of the season and/or the
school year; temporary suspension and/or
disqualification from any and/or all extracurricular
and/or co-curricular activities; or permanent
disqualification from participating
in any The District extracurricular and/or
co-curricular student activity programs for
the remainder of the student’s high school
career.
Students involved in clubs and/or activities
that do not compete or perform will
be subject to consequences set forth in
the by-laws of their club/activity.
Tobacco, Drug, Alcohol or
Other Prohibited Substances
a. First Offense
Suspension from extracurricular and/or
co-curricular activities for the equivalent
of one complete season. To complete
the terms of the suspension, the studentoffender
may be disqualified from more
than one activity and may cover more
than one school year. In lieu of suspension
for one complete season, the student
will be suspended from the activity
for not less than 20% of the IHSA season
limitations for athletic contests (Sec 5.00
IHSA Sports Season By-Laws) and/or
scheduled performances and/or scheduled
activity contests, if the student and
parent or guardian attend an educational
substance abuse program approved
by the school district. Written proof of
scheduled appointment dates at the
program is required before the student
will be deemed eligible to resume participation
in the student activity. Failure to
complete the program as scheduled may
result in further discipline. During the
time of contest/performance suspension,
the student will be required to attend and
participate in all practices. The student
will not be allowed to dress or be at a
contest/performance as a member of the
team until the length of the suspension
has been satisfied.
b. Second Offense
Suspension from extracurricular and/or
co-curricular activities for the equivalent
of one complete season. To complete
the terms of the suspension, the studentoffender
may be disqualified from more
than one activity and may cover more
than one school year. In lieu of suspension
for one complete season, the student
will be suspended from the activity
for not less than 50% of the IHSA season
limitations for athletic contests (Sec 5.00
IHSA Sports Season By-Laws) and/or
scheduled performances and/or scheduled
scheduled
activity contests if the student and
parent or guardian attend an educational
substance abuse program approved
by the school district. Written proof of
scheduled appointment dates at the program
and attendance at a meeting with
a The District student counselor and/or
school administrator are required before
the student will be deemed eligible to
resume participation in the student activity.
Failure to complete the program as
scheduled may result in further discipline.
During the time of contest/performance
suspension, the student will be required
to attend and participate in all practices.
The student will not be allowed to dress
or be at a contest/performance as a
member of the team until the length of
the suspension has been satisfied.
c. Third Offense
Permanent suspension from participating
in activities for the remainder of the
student’s high school career. It is recommended
that a meeting be held between
the student, the student’s parent or
guardian, and a The District counselor/
administrator to discuss outside resources
where the student can obtain professional
help or counseling.
VOLUNTARY ADMISSION
A voluntary admission shall occur when
a parent and/or student initiates communication
and admission with a certified
employee of the school district before the
student is arrested, detained, confronted,
or apprehended by any law enforcement
personnel, school personnel, other governmental
personnel or a private citizen,
or before a school investigation has begun.
This communication and admission must
occur before the student returns to school
or school related function/activity. Under
this circumstance, a voluntary admission will
count as a first or second offense and the
student will not be subject to consequences
of suspension. If the offense involves drugs,
alcohol, or other prohibited substances,
the student will be required to attend an
educational substance abuse program that
has been approved by the school district.
The purpose of this provision is to allow a
student to seek help. Voluntary admission
may NOT be used by a student if the rule
infraction is already known by the school.
Voluntary admission may be used by the
student only one time during the student’s
high school career and cannot be used on a
third offense.
The Code of Conduct will be in continuous
effect from the date that it is signed until
the student graduates, subject to any revisions
imposed by The District.
The District proudly encourages and
supports students who elect to represent
the school in extracurricular and/or co-curricular
activities. The District believes in
the valuable results of mental, social and
physical development of the student body.
Students who participate in extracurricular
and/or co-curricular activities represent The District
year round. As such, participation
is a privilege, not a right and all student representatives
of The District activities must
adhere to the following rules and regulations,
seven days a week, twelve months a
year, whether or not school is in session as a
condition of participation.
The following requirements, procedures
and consequences relate to participation
and eligibility in extracurricular and/or
co-curricular activities only and do not preclude
the imposition of sanctions up to and
including suspension and/or expulsion from
school as outlined in the student discipline
code where appropriate.
PREREQUISITE
REQUIREMENTS
Any student who intends to participate and/
or actively participate in any extracurricular
and/or co-curricular activity on behalf of
The District must:
1. Submit a signed permission form by
the student’s parent and/or guardian
consenting to participating in an extracurricular
and/or co-curricular activity,
prior to the student’s first extracurricular
and/or co-curricular activity of the
school year.
2. Agree to abide by all rules and regulations
of the Illinois High School Association
and all rules and policies contained
in the The District Parent-Student
Handbook.
3. Attend a Code of Conduct seminar
with a parent and/or guardian prior to
the student’s first extracurricular and/or
co-curricular contest/activity.
4. Sign a Code of Conduct contract.
Attendance at school is required for a half
a day or more to be eligible to participate in
that day’s extracurricular and/or co-curricular
activity. An absence on the last day of the
school week will not preclude participation
in a weekend activity. Emergencies and prearranged
absences will not be considered
absences.
PROCEDURE
Procedures to follow related to Code of
Conduct issues:
1. An investigation will be initiated.
2. Prior to the decision to impose any
penalty, the student-offender will be
informed of the alleged violation and
afforded an opportunity to make any
statement on his/her behalf.
3. If a code of conduct violation has been
determined:
• Contact parents/guardian to set a
meeting date with the student, parent
and school officials to discuss the
code of conduct violation.
• School Officials/Parents may opt to
do a phone conference in lieu of a
face-to-face meeting.
• This meeting must occur within 24
hours of a determination of the violation,
when practicable, or the next
school day following the determination
of the violation.
• If the parent/guardian is unable
to meet within this time frame,
the penalty will be imposed
pending a later-scheduled meeting.
4. A follow-up letter will be sent to the
student and parents regarding violation/
consequences, and notifying them
of their right of a review of the penalty
with the school building principal.
5. The right to review does not postpone
the penalty imposition. The decision
of the school building principal shall
be final and is not subject to further
review.
6. Penalties imposed pursuant to this
Code of Conduct relate to the student’s
eligibility to participate in The District
extracurricular and/or co-curricular
activities only and does not preclude the
imposition of penalties for violations of
The District Parent-Student Handbook
rules and policies where appropriate.
Penalties imposed for rule violations
conducted in the course of co-curricular
activity shall not be in the form of grade
punishment.
7. Where a penalty is imposed, the student-
offender will be removed from a
leadership position (i.e. officer of the
Student Council, leadership with any
school-sponsored club or activity, any
class officer position, and any leadership
on any athletic team) in any extracurricular
and/or co-curricular for the
duration of the season/ activity.
PROHIBITED CONDUCT
No The District student participating in any
extracurricular and/or co-curricular activity
shall:
1. Possess, use, distribute or sell, or
attempt to possess, use, distribute or
sell, drugs, any substance represented
to be a drug, controlled substances,
drug paraphernalia, alcohol, tobacco
and/or tobacco products.
2. Knowingly remain in the immediate
presence of any person who is illegally
using, possessing, distributing or selling
drugs, any substance represented to be
a drug, controlled substance, cannabis,
drug paraphernalia, or alcohol, unless
the student could not leave the person’s
presence without endangering himself/
herself or others.
3. Commit and/or attempt to commit,
and/or knowingly remain within the
presence of one who commits and/or
attempts to commit the offense of
hazing, theft, assault, vandalism, illegal
use of a weapon, or any other offense,
which may be punishable by a court of
law.
4. Use inappropriate, vulgar, lewd, indecent
and/or derogatory language while representing
the school at an extracurricular
or co-curricular event.
5. Misuse school buildings, facilities and/or
equipment.
6. Commit acts, which would bring disrepute
to the extracurricular program in
which the student is a participant.
7. Fail to abide by any other The District
rule and/or policy as identified in the
The District Parent-Student Handbook***
and/or the rules and regulations of the
Illinois High School Association.
***21 other pages***
CONSEQUENCES
In General. Failure to abide by any provision
contained in this Code of Conduct may
result in temporary suspension from the
activity; disqualification from the activity
for the remainder of the season and/or the
school year; temporary suspension and/or
disqualification from any and/or all extracurricular
and/or co-curricular activities; or permanent
disqualification from participating
in any The District extracurricular and/or
co-curricular student activity programs for
the remainder of the student’s high school
career.
Students involved in clubs and/or activities
that do not compete or perform will
be subject to consequences set forth in
the by-laws of their club/activity.
Tobacco, Drug, Alcohol or
Other Prohibited Substances
a. First Offense
Suspension from extracurricular and/or
co-curricular activities for the equivalent
of one complete season. To complete
the terms of the suspension, the studentoffender
may be disqualified from more
than one activity and may cover more
than one school year. In lieu of suspension
for one complete season, the student
will be suspended from the activity
for not less than 20% of the IHSA season
limitations for athletic contests (Sec 5.00
IHSA Sports Season By-Laws) and/or
scheduled performances and/or scheduled
activity contests, if the student and
parent or guardian attend an educational
substance abuse program approved
by the school district. Written proof of
scheduled appointment dates at the
program is required before the student
will be deemed eligible to resume participation
in the student activity. Failure to
complete the program as scheduled may
result in further discipline. During the
time of contest/performance suspension,
the student will be required to attend and
participate in all practices. The student
will not be allowed to dress or be at a
contest/performance as a member of the
team until the length of the suspension
has been satisfied.
b. Second Offense
Suspension from extracurricular and/or
co-curricular activities for the equivalent
of one complete season. To complete
the terms of the suspension, the studentoffender
may be disqualified from more
than one activity and may cover more
than one school year. In lieu of suspension
for one complete season, the student
will be suspended from the activity
for not less than 50% of the IHSA season
limitations for athletic contests (Sec 5.00
IHSA Sports Season By-Laws) and/or
scheduled performances and/or scheduled
scheduled
activity contests if the student and
parent or guardian attend an educational
substance abuse program approved
by the school district. Written proof of
scheduled appointment dates at the program
and attendance at a meeting with
a The District student counselor and/or
school administrator are required before
the student will be deemed eligible to
resume participation in the student activity.
Failure to complete the program as
scheduled may result in further discipline.
During the time of contest/performance
suspension, the student will be required
to attend and participate in all practices.
The student will not be allowed to dress
or be at a contest/performance as a
member of the team until the length of
the suspension has been satisfied.
c. Third Offense
Permanent suspension from participating
in activities for the remainder of the
student’s high school career. It is recommended
that a meeting be held between
the student, the student’s parent or
guardian, and a The District counselor/
administrator to discuss outside resources
where the student can obtain professional
help or counseling.
VOLUNTARY ADMISSION
A voluntary admission shall occur when
a parent and/or student initiates communication
and admission with a certified
employee of the school district before the
student is arrested, detained, confronted,
or apprehended by any law enforcement
personnel, school personnel, other governmental
personnel or a private citizen,
or before a school investigation has begun.
This communication and admission must
occur before the student returns to school
or school related function/activity. Under
this circumstance, a voluntary admission will
count as a first or second offense and the
student will not be subject to consequences
of suspension. If the offense involves drugs,
alcohol, or other prohibited substances,
the student will be required to attend an
educational substance abuse program that
has been approved by the school district.
The purpose of this provision is to allow a
student to seek help. Voluntary admission
may NOT be used by a student if the rule
infraction is already known by the school.
Voluntary admission may be used by the
student only one time during the student’s
high school career and cannot be used on a
third offense.
The Code of Conduct will be in continuous
effect from the date that it is signed until
the student graduates, subject to any revisions
imposed by The District.
quote:Originally posted by Tuzigoot:
As such, participation
is a privilege, not a right and all student representatives
of The District activities must
adhere to the following rules and regulations,
seven days a week, twelve months a
year, whether or not school is in session as a
condition of participation.
School districts essentially took these rights from people. They claim privilege, which we granted them by allowing them to take those rights from us.
This is a perfect example of the "political land grab" that I referred to in another post. Politicians take rights from us, and as long as we don't scream too much or too loud, they keep them.
No law ever gave schools the right to be judge/jury/executioner on items outside the school, we did that by apathetically shrugging our shoulders in blind agreement to their assessment that "it's for the good of the kids".
It is wrong, and not representative of the people or the ideals this country is founded on. Sitting idly by while others take from you rights that others have fought and died to protect is disgraceful.
I have often wondered if the people that steal those rights from others, have ever sat in a fox hole, or behind a tree, watching brave men fall in service to their country? Have they ever, in spite of bone chilling fear, continued to fight on and risk it all? Have they ever looked their buddy in they eye and said, "let's go, let's get the job done", and then moved out, advancing under fire? I wonder that if they understood the dear prices paid for those rights, whether they would be so quick to sneak those rights away like thieves in the night, by writing them into policies quietly and hoping no one notices.
I wonder if they understand how precious the rights we are granted by our constitution really are?
I wonder how many here even understand that and are willing to stand up for them?
I'm with CPLZ. This is nuts. I hadn't seen one before. I can honestly say that all it is doing is making liars out of a lot of kids. How many go to concerts? You are now ineligible. How many go to ball games? Off the team. It is way too broad and could get a kid kicked off the team for any reason if they wanted to do it.
CPLZ, you're so spot on it's beautiful. If you ever decide to run for office you've got my vote.
.
Can we get your signature on that rosy?
My biggest problem with these Codes of Conduct is the double standard which so often occurs. The high school administrators in that other thread did not apply a double standard and that is why I respect them.
quote:Originally posted by itsrosy:
CPLZ, you're so spot on it's beautiful. If you ever decide to run for office you've got my vote.
Can we get your signature on that rosy?
My biggest problem with these Codes of Conduct is the double standard which so often occurs. The high school administrators in that other thread did not apply a double standard and that is why I respect them.
As I re-read the above post I'm most struck by the point that "sitting idly by while others take from you rights that others have fought and died to protect is disgraceful".
Woody, you've got my John Hancock. Send me a $20, I'll sign it and mail it back to you. Yeah sure!
Woody, you've got my John Hancock. Send me a $20, I'll sign it and mail it back to you. Yeah sure!
I agree with you 110% CPLZ on the erosion of personal freedoms and rights - the stuff that's going on right now in this country is more than just a little frightening. But that's another conversation for another time.
So maybe this conversation should really focus on whether it's a right or a privilege to participate in a school sport. Here's how I see it... A RIGHT means that everyone gets to do it. In this case, every one has a right to TRYOUT for the team, but actually PLAYING is a privilege granted to those who are 1. deemed good enough and 2. agree to abide by the rules of participation. Reasonable people can disagree about what those rules should be (or even who's good enough to actually be on the team - but the PRIVILEGE of picking the team falls to a select few) but saying that everyone has a RIGHT to be on the team is not, in my mind, an accurate assessment of the situation. Kids have the RIGHT to attend a public school (as long as they don't do anything to forfeit that right) but that doesn't give them the RIGHT to be in the school band if they've never taken the time to learn to play an instrument. That's a privilege earned by those who have put in the time and agree to follow the rules associated with participation in that activity.
I think you're agreeing that the right is reserved for those who are chosen, but the disagreement comes on the second point... the scope of the rules of participation.
So is it a right that is granted to all? Or a privilege that one earns? Does anybody see it like I do? Or did I miss the mark?
So maybe this conversation should really focus on whether it's a right or a privilege to participate in a school sport. Here's how I see it... A RIGHT means that everyone gets to do it. In this case, every one has a right to TRYOUT for the team, but actually PLAYING is a privilege granted to those who are 1. deemed good enough and 2. agree to abide by the rules of participation. Reasonable people can disagree about what those rules should be (or even who's good enough to actually be on the team - but the PRIVILEGE of picking the team falls to a select few) but saying that everyone has a RIGHT to be on the team is not, in my mind, an accurate assessment of the situation. Kids have the RIGHT to attend a public school (as long as they don't do anything to forfeit that right) but that doesn't give them the RIGHT to be in the school band if they've never taken the time to learn to play an instrument. That's a privilege earned by those who have put in the time and agree to follow the rules associated with participation in that activity.
I think you're agreeing that the right is reserved for those who are chosen, but the disagreement comes on the second point... the scope of the rules of participation.
So is it a right that is granted to all? Or a privilege that one earns? Does anybody see it like I do? Or did I miss the mark?
mythreesons,
With all due respect, I believe you've missed the mark.
By your definition, a HS AP course would be a privilege, and it is not. If chemistry is a right, is AP chemistry a privilege? No.
Being proficient enough to execute a task well or better than another, does not make executing that task a privilege.
Calling HS sports a privilege is a perversion of the definition.
With all due respect, I believe you've missed the mark.
By your definition, a HS AP course would be a privilege, and it is not. If chemistry is a right, is AP chemistry a privilege? No.
Being proficient enough to execute a task well or better than another, does not make executing that task a privilege.
Calling HS sports a privilege is a perversion of the definition.
Hmm..
I agree that in general our rights are eroding. Off point but....the same folks who were worried about the rights of suspected terrorists aren't all concerned about the rights of law abiding US Citizens.
OK back on point....A few years ago a HS athlete I know was busted for pot. As per the code, he was suspended.....IMHO wrongly because pot (noted as a drug) does not allow for a second chance as far a suspension goes. The drinkers get a better deal, they get a second chance. I think he should have gotten a second chance (alcohol abuse by kids is no better than smoking pot). He did go to court along with a heavy hitting legal team and get off on the misdemeanor charge, but of course it had no bearing on the code violation, nor should it have. His parents also challenged the school's decision as well but did not prevail as the school's process did not allow for legal wrangling as the court did. I also believe that the family took legal action against the school but the judge threw it out.
Schools need to be empowered to impose discipline. IMHO, even if there was no code, coaches should be responsible for such action and hopefull they would expect the same behavior the code does. Unfortunatly that would put them on the spot with a kid they needed to have to win.
Since playing on a team or involving yourself in another extra-curricular activity is completely voluntary I think there should be no problem expecting certain behavior of those representing the team, school and community. I think we can all agree on that on some level. Supposing it is something much worse....dealing heroin, raping someone, robbing a bank. Are you going to argue that a school has no right to impose a penalty on that kid who is on the team? Big difference between that and being at a party, but I'm just challenging those who think the school has no right to impose such penalties.
Maybe it is arguable where the line should be drawn, but it seems obvious that the principle is reasonable.
Again, the rules are put right in front of them ahead of time.
That code posted by Tuzi was probably that long because of challenges by parents in the past making the code as legally complex as the US Penal Code.
I agree that in general our rights are eroding. Off point but....the same folks who were worried about the rights of suspected terrorists aren't all concerned about the rights of law abiding US Citizens.
OK back on point....A few years ago a HS athlete I know was busted for pot. As per the code, he was suspended.....IMHO wrongly because pot (noted as a drug) does not allow for a second chance as far a suspension goes. The drinkers get a better deal, they get a second chance. I think he should have gotten a second chance (alcohol abuse by kids is no better than smoking pot). He did go to court along with a heavy hitting legal team and get off on the misdemeanor charge, but of course it had no bearing on the code violation, nor should it have. His parents also challenged the school's decision as well but did not prevail as the school's process did not allow for legal wrangling as the court did. I also believe that the family took legal action against the school but the judge threw it out.
Schools need to be empowered to impose discipline. IMHO, even if there was no code, coaches should be responsible for such action and hopefull they would expect the same behavior the code does. Unfortunatly that would put them on the spot with a kid they needed to have to win.
Since playing on a team or involving yourself in another extra-curricular activity is completely voluntary I think there should be no problem expecting certain behavior of those representing the team, school and community. I think we can all agree on that on some level. Supposing it is something much worse....dealing heroin, raping someone, robbing a bank. Are you going to argue that a school has no right to impose a penalty on that kid who is on the team? Big difference between that and being at a party, but I'm just challenging those who think the school has no right to impose such penalties.
Maybe it is arguable where the line should be drawn, but it seems obvious that the principle is reasonable.
Again, the rules are put right in front of them ahead of time.
That code posted by Tuzi was probably that long because of challenges by parents in the past making the code as legally complex as the US Penal Code.
CPLZ
Not a good comparison. One in the business of going to school (Chemistry) and the other extra-curricular.
Will you argue to me that any kid should be able to do any thing without consequences? All because going to school is a right not a priveledge?
How about some kid who packed a gun and attended a game at another school? Is that enought to get suspended? By your argument not.
Not a good comparison. One in the business of going to school (Chemistry) and the other extra-curricular.
Will you argue to me that any kid should be able to do any thing without consequences? All because going to school is a right not a priveledge?
How about some kid who packed a gun and attended a game at another school? Is that enought to get suspended? By your argument not.
FastballDad,
The AP course is voluntary and if you are good at it it may get you into a school that you would normally not qualify for or be able to afford(scholly). Baseball, dance, tennis, whatever can get you the same thing.
They are all extra services. None of them are mandatory.
The AP course is voluntary and if you are good at it it may get you into a school that you would normally not qualify for or be able to afford(scholly). Baseball, dance, tennis, whatever can get you the same thing.
They are all extra services. None of them are mandatory.
FBD,
You are blurring the lines of distinction.
The school does and should have authority at school and with regards to school activities. A kid bringing a gun to school is within that purview.
A kid bringing a gun into a movie theater is not the schools business, it is the courts business. So to answer your question with a question, why do we need school administrators to do the job our constitution sets up the judicial system for? We have rights, like that of self incrimination in the judicial system, but no such right in the school judicial system. Quite simply, it is none of the schools business what happens outside of school.
Schools have a hard enough time educating our youth. When they get that perfect, then we can talk about how they can perfect our constitutionally monitored justice system.
You are blurring the lines of distinction.
The school does and should have authority at school and with regards to school activities. A kid bringing a gun to school is within that purview.
A kid bringing a gun into a movie theater is not the schools business, it is the courts business. So to answer your question with a question, why do we need school administrators to do the job our constitution sets up the judicial system for? We have rights, like that of self incrimination in the judicial system, but no such right in the school judicial system. Quite simply, it is none of the schools business what happens outside of school.
Schools have a hard enough time educating our youth. When they get that perfect, then we can talk about how they can perfect our constitutionally monitored justice system.
Soldiers fight for the rights spelled out in the Constitution. These rights cannot be suspended in the case of terrorists. Our rights were eroding when the last administration deemed it OK to wiretap without court orders, to suspend habeous corpus, deem people illegal combatantsa and jail them without representation. Our rights were indeed eroding, and we let it happen until the Country wiseley voted to change our course. Not to mention condoning torture. That was all a subversion of the Constitution so many have bravely fought and died for.
Our legal system has been based on better 100 guilty go free than one innocent man be executed. We have gotten away from that due to fear of the bogeyman terrorist in the shopping mall.
Schools are part of the community. They are there to teach, not only reading writing and 'rithmatic, but how to socialize and become productive members of society. Sports are supposed to teach life lessons, they are not a vocational school. The community pays taxes for schools, and schools have an obligation to do the best job of educating they can.
Many have said, the punished players learn lessons. Yes they do. For actions, there are consequences.
In my opinion, playing on a sports team is a privelege, not a right. The state has a mandate "for the general welfare" to educate kids in studies. Their task has broadened, but not to where sports is a right.
I don't think school boards and politicians stole our rights while we slept. I think the community wanted schools to do more than basic math english and science. My wife has been active as soon as we had children to have input in the schools through PTA and school boards. The people that care get involved. These things develope over time.
Children live in the community and are part of the community. So are the schools and the police and fire departments. They all work together and are connected to create the fine communities we live in, and to make this Country the greatest on the planet.
If kids don't follow the rules, many parts of the community get involved. The police may send the kid to government rehab center or a diciplinary school. Teh scool may enforce their codes of conduct. Courts get involved and it affects if and when kids return to scholls and whether there are restricted acitvities. It is not as simple as, he broke the law, call the police. You will all hate this but, It takes a village. The Secretary of State had a point.
Our legal system has been based on better 100 guilty go free than one innocent man be executed. We have gotten away from that due to fear of the bogeyman terrorist in the shopping mall.
Schools are part of the community. They are there to teach, not only reading writing and 'rithmatic, but how to socialize and become productive members of society. Sports are supposed to teach life lessons, they are not a vocational school. The community pays taxes for schools, and schools have an obligation to do the best job of educating they can.
Many have said, the punished players learn lessons. Yes they do. For actions, there are consequences.
In my opinion, playing on a sports team is a privelege, not a right. The state has a mandate "for the general welfare" to educate kids in studies. Their task has broadened, but not to where sports is a right.
I don't think school boards and politicians stole our rights while we slept. I think the community wanted schools to do more than basic math english and science. My wife has been active as soon as we had children to have input in the schools through PTA and school boards. The people that care get involved. These things develope over time.
Children live in the community and are part of the community. So are the schools and the police and fire departments. They all work together and are connected to create the fine communities we live in, and to make this Country the greatest on the planet.
If kids don't follow the rules, many parts of the community get involved. The police may send the kid to government rehab center or a diciplinary school. Teh scool may enforce their codes of conduct. Courts get involved and it affects if and when kids return to scholls and whether there are restricted acitvities. It is not as simple as, he broke the law, call the police. You will all hate this but, It takes a village. The Secretary of State had a point.
CPLZ,
I am locking this thread now.
The facts of the individual case are now known and I fear that leaving this thread open would serve no further useful purpose.
Does that quote look familiar?
Even though freedom of speech is a right granted to US citizens, you choose to lock the thread. Even though no laws were broken, no personal attacks were made against anyone, however you rightfully did it to prevent negative postings directed at the young man or family, which I thought was a good idea.
As a moderator, you have been given the job of determining what falls within the rules of this site and what crosses the rules. When you close a topic I understand that what was posted must not of been within the guidelines set forth.
We understand that and have no choice but to accept the decision you have made to close a topic where people are exercising their freedom of speech. No Problem
If a young man plays on a team, he will be held to a certain set of rules that govern that team or organization. Every child is afforded an education, protected by Law. Where have you ever seen a law that affords every kid the right to be a member of a sports team. Until then, guidelines will be in place that people (not just the player's) will have to adhere to.
I am locking this thread now.
The facts of the individual case are now known and I fear that leaving this thread open would serve no further useful purpose.
Does that quote look familiar?
Even though freedom of speech is a right granted to US citizens, you choose to lock the thread. Even though no laws were broken, no personal attacks were made against anyone, however you rightfully did it to prevent negative postings directed at the young man or family, which I thought was a good idea.
As a moderator, you have been given the job of determining what falls within the rules of this site and what crosses the rules. When you close a topic I understand that what was posted must not of been within the guidelines set forth.
We understand that and have no choice but to accept the decision you have made to close a topic where people are exercising their freedom of speech. No Problem
If a young man plays on a team, he will be held to a certain set of rules that govern that team or organization. Every child is afforded an education, protected by Law. Where have you ever seen a law that affords every kid the right to be a member of a sports team. Until then, guidelines will be in place that people (not just the player's) will have to adhere to.
quote:A kid bringing a gun into a movie theater is not the schools business, it is the courts business
So when the ballplayers are done with their game its ok to hang up the uniforms and put on the gang clothing and start packing?????
This has gotten really booooring. Everybody knows drinking beer is fun.
CPLZ
I purposely wrote that the hypothetical student brought a gun to a game at another school, just to blur the lines. It wasn't at his school, so why should his school have anything to say about it?
Still, can you think of any behavior that a kid could commit that would preclude him from participating in ANY school function? Think really extreme on that one.....by your logic a serial rapist/murderer should be able to attend school and play on the baseball team while out on bond. I'm just making the point that there is a line that needs to be drawn......
I'm pretty much a hands-off guy when it comes to government but you have to have some structure.
Doughnutman..
I believe that schools in Illinois are required to provide curriculum that serves the very top students as well as the very lower achieving students. Even if that were not the case, providing an academic education is at the core of what schools are and is not a priviledge but a right. Extra-curriculars are not only not a right, but some schools have little if any extras.
I purposely wrote that the hypothetical student brought a gun to a game at another school, just to blur the lines. It wasn't at his school, so why should his school have anything to say about it?
Still, can you think of any behavior that a kid could commit that would preclude him from participating in ANY school function? Think really extreme on that one.....by your logic a serial rapist/murderer should be able to attend school and play on the baseball team while out on bond. I'm just making the point that there is a line that needs to be drawn......
I'm pretty much a hands-off guy when it comes to government but you have to have some structure.
Doughnutman..
I believe that schools in Illinois are required to provide curriculum that serves the very top students as well as the very lower achieving students. Even if that were not the case, providing an academic education is at the core of what schools are and is not a priviledge but a right. Extra-curriculars are not only not a right, but some schools have little if any extras.
FBD,
If he brought it to a HS game, yes, it is school business, if he brought it to a Bulls game, no, it is not school business.
Do you remember Ryan White?
He was the kid from Indiana who had aids and was persecuted by his community and his school, "in the best interest of the children". People were scared, and they had a right to be.
The people that gave us the rights we have today were scared, and they had a right to be. They faced their fears, and in spite of not being able to conquer them, persevered anyway.
So no, there is no situation where a school should be allowed to act as judge, jury and executioner, with regards to legal proceedings that are none of its business. There is no thing more precious than our rights granted by our constitution and we should fight to our last breath, as many already have, to preserve them and not let them be taken away.
There are a good many causes that we could point to that would be remedied easily by a slight variance to our constitutional rights. In nearly all of them, society, and our courts, have held that the sanctity of those rights supersedes all else, as was the intention of our constitution.
When we begin with little holes in the dike, we soon wind up with more holes than fingers to plug them, and the erosion becomes cataclysmic collapse.
And what would be the point of that line? Would it be to protect the good players from the potential evil? Would it be to deter the serial rapist from further attacks so that he may retain baseball eligibility?
There is some absurdity in having that line, as it really doesn't protect or dissuade anyone, does it. It just gives authority to people unqualified to administer it.
If he brought it to a HS game, yes, it is school business, if he brought it to a Bulls game, no, it is not school business.
Do you remember Ryan White?
He was the kid from Indiana who had aids and was persecuted by his community and his school, "in the best interest of the children". People were scared, and they had a right to be.
The people that gave us the rights we have today were scared, and they had a right to be. They faced their fears, and in spite of not being able to conquer them, persevered anyway.
So no, there is no situation where a school should be allowed to act as judge, jury and executioner, with regards to legal proceedings that are none of its business. There is no thing more precious than our rights granted by our constitution and we should fight to our last breath, as many already have, to preserve them and not let them be taken away.
There are a good many causes that we could point to that would be remedied easily by a slight variance to our constitutional rights. In nearly all of them, society, and our courts, have held that the sanctity of those rights supersedes all else, as was the intention of our constitution.
When we begin with little holes in the dike, we soon wind up with more holes than fingers to plug them, and the erosion becomes cataclysmic collapse.
quote:Originally posted by FastballDad:
by your logic a serial rapist/murderer should be able to attend school and play on the baseball team while out on bond. I'm just making the point that there is a line that needs to be drawn......
And what would be the point of that line? Would it be to protect the good players from the potential evil? Would it be to deter the serial rapist from further attacks so that he may retain baseball eligibility?
There is some absurdity in having that line, as it really doesn't protect or dissuade anyone, does it. It just gives authority to people unqualified to administer it.
quote:Do you remember Ryan White?
He was the kid from Indiana who had aids and was persecuted by his community and his school, "in the best interest of the children". People were scared, and they had a right to be.
IMO, that is wrong and I'm not sure if it is actually legal... That's discrimination due to medical conditions.
On the other hand, not allowing one to play sports due to alcohol or other behavior reasons is called meeting a standard. As we know, athletes are held to a higher standard.
One doesn't need to break the law for them to violate policies that they agreed to. If they didn't agree to abide by them, then don't sign the piece of paper and don't play sports. How hard is it?
As for the AP class... again you have to meeting a requirement to get into it. If anybody who wants to be in the class is let into the class, then it isn't a true AP class.
quote:c. Third Offense
Permanent suspension from participating
in activities for the remainder of the
student’s high school career. It is recommended
that a meeting be held between
the student, the student’s parent or
guardian, and a The District counselor/
administrator to discuss outside resources
where the student can obtain professional help or counseling.
???
quote:Originally posted by Bulldog 19:
...policies that they agreed to.
By definition, there is no agreement, the signature is extorted.
quote:Originally posted by Bulldog 19:
IMO, that is wrong and I'm not sure if it is actually legal... That's discrimination due to medical conditions.
What a great point. Bulldog, you are probably too young to remember this case, it was when AIDS was first discovered and this 10 year old kid got it from a blood transfusion.
This persons liberties were trampled, but in the face of panic and hysteria over needing protection, it was allowed by the schools. The schools and the general population turned out to be wrong, and before they found that out, Ryan White died.
The moral to the story is:
What seems good for today, is never worth the cost of taking away someones constitutionally guaranteed rights as a citizen.
FBD,
When I went to School in Illinois 20 years ago there weren't any AP courses at my school. Has the law changed so that schools have to provide that now? In AZ where I now reside, Sage(AP) is being cut out due to budget as well as a lot of special services. They call it mainstreaming, but in reality, it is just saving the schools money.
To cut it out would imply it is a special service, not mandatory.
When I went to School in Illinois 20 years ago there weren't any AP courses at my school. Has the law changed so that schools have to provide that now? In AZ where I now reside, Sage(AP) is being cut out due to budget as well as a lot of special services. They call it mainstreaming, but in reality, it is just saving the schools money.
To cut it out would imply it is a special service, not mandatory.
CPLZ-
You use the word "right" similar to the word "entitlement."
It is the same garbage I hear from people who say that everyone should have the right to free health care coverage. Who said this? God himself?
Rights are earned. My Dad spent 4 years of his life in WWII fighting against people who were trying to take away our freedoms. No where does it say that we all have the right to do what ever we want, when ever we want. Vote and get rid of your school board members who take away your rights/enytitlements - that is how it works.
I'm not smart enough to discuss the semantics of language but I would guess, that if these athletic codes weren't there, you would probably have much more chaos going on with these high school kids than there is now. I'll give up some of my rights in an attempt to keep my kids alive! Sorry, I will never buy into your reasoning.
As I said once before, why don't we just legal drugs and drinking and be done with it. Sure, that'll work......
You use the word "right" similar to the word "entitlement."
It is the same garbage I hear from people who say that everyone should have the right to free health care coverage. Who said this? God himself?
Rights are earned. My Dad spent 4 years of his life in WWII fighting against people who were trying to take away our freedoms. No where does it say that we all have the right to do what ever we want, when ever we want. Vote and get rid of your school board members who take away your rights/enytitlements - that is how it works.
I'm not smart enough to discuss the semantics of language but I would guess, that if these athletic codes weren't there, you would probably have much more chaos going on with these high school kids than there is now. I'll give up some of my rights in an attempt to keep my kids alive! Sorry, I will never buy into your reasoning.
As I said once before, why don't we just legal drugs and drinking and be done with it. Sure, that'll work......
quote:By definition, there is no agreement, the signature is extorted.
Are you required to sign it? What happens if you don't? If you don't agree to play by the rules, then don't play. Simple.
quote:Originally posted by CPLZ:
There is some absurdity in having that line, as it really doesn't protect or dissuade anyone, does it. It just gives authority to people unqualified to administer it.
The absurdity was intentional CPLZ.....
Doughnutman
I believe there is a State Mandate regarding to top and bottom portions of our students getting "special" treatment.
I believe there is a State Mandate regarding to top and bottom portions of our students getting "special" treatment.
I'm not a lawyer, but understand contracts and the basics of contract law.
The COC is of similar concept. You have an offer "you can participate, subject to terms and conditions;" you have acceptance; and, you have remedies for breach. I don't believe it to be so much as extortion as it is a simple agreement.
I offer wikipedia as it was most readily available and does a suitable job:
"A contract is an exchange of promises between two or more parties to do, or refrain from doing, an act which is enforceable in a court of law. It is a binding legal agreement. [1] That is to say, a contract is an exchange of promises for the breach of which the law will provide a remedy.
Agreement is said to be reached when an offer capable of immediate acceptance is met with a "mirror image" acceptance (ie, an unqualified acceptance). The parties must have the necessary capacity to contract and the contract must not be either trifling, indeterminate, impossible or illegal. Contract law is based on the principle expressed in the Latin phrase pacta sunt servanda (usually translated "pacts must be kept", but more literally "agreements are to be kept").[2] Breach of contract is recognized by the law and remedies can be provided."
When you sign an apartment lease, loan agreement, mortgage document, there is nothing to negotiate other than price, rate, and term. Very little if any of the "fine print" is negotiated. Either you are in or you are not.
The COC is of similar concept. You have an offer "you can participate, subject to terms and conditions;" you have acceptance; and, you have remedies for breach. I don't believe it to be so much as extortion as it is a simple agreement.
I offer wikipedia as it was most readily available and does a suitable job:
"A contract is an exchange of promises between two or more parties to do, or refrain from doing, an act which is enforceable in a court of law. It is a binding legal agreement. [1] That is to say, a contract is an exchange of promises for the breach of which the law will provide a remedy.
Agreement is said to be reached when an offer capable of immediate acceptance is met with a "mirror image" acceptance (ie, an unqualified acceptance). The parties must have the necessary capacity to contract and the contract must not be either trifling, indeterminate, impossible or illegal. Contract law is based on the principle expressed in the Latin phrase pacta sunt servanda (usually translated "pacts must be kept", but more literally "agreements are to be kept").[2] Breach of contract is recognized by the law and remedies can be provided."
When you sign an apartment lease, loan agreement, mortgage document, there is nothing to negotiate other than price, rate, and term. Very little if any of the "fine print" is negotiated. Either you are in or you are not.
first i apologize for waddleing on down to your illforum.
the thing that bothers me the most, as i read this story he wasn't there when the police pulled the driver over. but the other boy said he was earlier. what's to stop the kid on the end of the bench from saying so and so was at a party?
in our state they have internal possession of alchohol. another local fundraiser.
the thing that bothers me the most, as i read this story he wasn't there when the police pulled the driver over. but the other boy said he was earlier. what's to stop the kid on the end of the bench from saying so and so was at a party?
in our state they have internal possession of alchohol. another local fundraiser.
(20dad - the parents were quoted in the paper as saying the boy was there at some point. Now whether you agree with the school's determination as to whether his presence is a violation or not is another story, but it does not appear there was any argument about whether he was there at some point.)
This is developing into a really good discussion with some interesting viewpoints. I find myself thinking "I so agree with that!" and then "but I really agree with that, too!"
How about this - in my job we are told that there are things that can happen outside of work that will cost me my position. Very similar things, actually, to the athletic code. Do people agree that my behavior outside of work should have no bearing on me keeping my job? Aren't we kind of talking about the same thing? There's a certain standard that my bosses are trying to establish and if I do anything that will cast aspersions on my place of employment, I'm out. I have to sign the agreement. Am I forced? No, I can choose not to take the job. But if I take the job, it's understood that I will sign and abide by a certain code of conduct. How is this any different? Players are not forced to sign the code - they can choose not to play. That may sound harsh, but it is the truth. I guess if enough players took that stand, they may have to re-think the code, or they wouldn't have a team.
Aren't we also telling athletes that there should be pride in representing your school and your community and that they need to behave in such a way as to not bring that image down?
This is developing into a really good discussion with some interesting viewpoints. I find myself thinking "I so agree with that!" and then "but I really agree with that, too!"
How about this - in my job we are told that there are things that can happen outside of work that will cost me my position. Very similar things, actually, to the athletic code. Do people agree that my behavior outside of work should have no bearing on me keeping my job? Aren't we kind of talking about the same thing? There's a certain standard that my bosses are trying to establish and if I do anything that will cast aspersions on my place of employment, I'm out. I have to sign the agreement. Am I forced? No, I can choose not to take the job. But if I take the job, it's understood that I will sign and abide by a certain code of conduct. How is this any different? Players are not forced to sign the code - they can choose not to play. That may sound harsh, but it is the truth. I guess if enough players took that stand, they may have to re-think the code, or they wouldn't have a team.
Aren't we also telling athletes that there should be pride in representing your school and your community and that they need to behave in such a way as to not bring that image down?
quote:the thing that bothers me the most, as i read this story he wasn't there when the police pulled the driver over. but the other boy said he was earlier.
20dad,
I noticed that also, and it did not seem right to me. If that report is accurate, it just does not seem right.
When I was in HS, some of the top athletes at our school attended a party in a hotel, with alcohol present in the room. I did not go to that party (in spite of my boyfriend going) because I played sports and was concerned about the consequences for being caught at a party where alcohol was served. The party got noisy - cops were called - all students found at the party by the cops received detention and suspension from sports (whether they were drinking or not). It was a tough punishment, but seemed to fit the "crime".
Now what if I had not known in advance that there would be drinking, or even if I suspected but went anyway, then got to the party and said "Wait, this looks like trouble" and had called my parents like we tell our kids to do. If some of the students at the party had said, "Julie B. was here earlier tonight, but she called her parents for a ride home when she found out there was drinking going on..." Would that have been right for Julie B. to receive the same punishment? I honestly don't think so.
Julie
quote:Originally posted by mythreesons:
(20dad - the parents were quoted in the paper as saying the boy was there at some point. Now whether you agree with the school's determination as to whether his presence is a violation or not is another story, but it does not appear there was any argument about whether he was there at some point.)
This is developing into a really good discussion with some interesting viewpoints. I find myself thinking "I so agree with that!" and then "but I really agree with that, too!"
How about this - in my job we are told that there are things that can happen outside of work that will cost me my position. Very similar things, actually, to the athletic code. Do people agree that my behavior outside of work should have no bearing on me keeping my job? Aren't we kind of talking about the same thing? There's a certain standard that my bosses are trying to establish and if I do anything that will cast aspersions on my place of employment, I'm out. I have to sign the agreement. Am I forced? No, I can choose not to take the job. But if I take the job, it's understood that I will sign and abide by a certain code of conduct. How is this any different? Players are not forced to sign the code - they can choose not to play. That may sound harsh, but it is the truth. I guess if enough players took that stand, they may have to re-think the code, or they wouldn't have a team.
Aren't we also telling athletes that there should be pride in representing your school and your community and that they need to behave in such a way as to not bring that image down?
I have appreciated all your posts. Very well thought out and discussed.
I am starting to think two things have occurred here. The policy might be a good one in that it might save lives. On the same token, they might have applied the rule in a draconian way to this particular athlete. All we have is someone saying that someone was with them that night. I think cooler heads need to prevail.
There are so many possible variables that it seems almost impossible to discuss. Who knows who said what to who or how anyone found out who was in the group when whatever was going on. I do know that kids tend to talk - most everything that happens involving students gets resolved eventually because one kid tells another kid and so on. What would compel this kid to tell the police that his friend was there earlier, if in fact that's what happened? Misery loves company? Who knows.
I will say this - our school does not punish kids who find themselves in a situation they did not expect. No one has ever been coded for being at a concert or a professional sporting event, unless the group they are with is in violation. Our students are all told to get out of the situation right away and let someone know what happened immediately so you don't find yourself trying to defend your actions later. If my kid called me to come and get him because there was alcohol in the mix, and I did that, I would definitely defend him for doing the right thing. "I left as soon as I found out what was going on" should without a doubt be a valid defense against suspension.
I will say this - our school does not punish kids who find themselves in a situation they did not expect. No one has ever been coded for being at a concert or a professional sporting event, unless the group they are with is in violation. Our students are all told to get out of the situation right away and let someone know what happened immediately so you don't find yourself trying to defend your actions later. If my kid called me to come and get him because there was alcohol in the mix, and I did that, I would definitely defend him for doing the right thing. "I left as soon as I found out what was going on" should without a doubt be a valid defense against suspension.
quote:Originally posted by mythreesons:
There are so many possible variables that it seems almost impossible to discuss. Who knows who said what to who or how anyone found out who was in the group when whatever was going on. I do know that kids tend to talk - most everything that happens involving students gets resolved eventually because one kid tells another kid and so on. What would compel this kid to tell the police that his friend was there earlier, if in fact that's what happened? Misery loves company? Who knows.
I will say this - our school does not punish kids who find themselves in a situation they did not expect. No one has ever been coded for being at a concert or a professional sporting event, unless the group they are with is in violation. Our students are all told to get out of the situation right away and let someone know what happened immediately so you don't find yourself trying to defend your actions later. If my kid called me to come and get him because there was alcohol in the mix, and I did that, I would definitely defend him for doing the right thing. "I left as soon as I found out what was going on" should without a doubt be a valid defense against suspension.
mythreesons,
Your example of employment is a poor analogy on two planes.
One being that you are an adult, which would mean that a COC applied to a scholarshipped collegiate athlete differs substantially in nature from that of a HS student.
The other being that employment is not analogous to mandated school.
However, the last two sentences of your post...
I couldn't agree with more.
In the COC, there is no exchange, the school promises nothing.
The terms and conditions are that you relinquish the rights granted to you by the constitution for "fair hearing", "a jury of your peers", "the right against self incrimination", and a host of others. It usurps the justice system and replaces it with its own form of school justice where oversight is not administered. Flat out, it is wrong and violates the most basic sense of what our country is founded on. No where else in society can you go and find this kind of autonomous and constitutionally abusive government sponsored authority.
Your example of employment is a poor analogy on two planes.
One being that you are an adult, which would mean that a COC applied to a scholarshipped collegiate athlete differs substantially in nature from that of a HS student.
The other being that employment is not analogous to mandated school.
However, the last two sentences of your post...
quote:Originally posted by mythreesons:
If my kid called me to come and get him because there was alcohol in the mix, and I did that, I would definitely defend him for doing the right thing. "I left as soon as I found out what was going on" should without a doubt be a valid defense against suspension.
I couldn't agree with more.
quote:Originally posted by Used to Hit 300:
"A contract is an exchange of promises between two or more parties ...
In the COC, there is no exchange, the school promises nothing.
quote:Originally posted by Used to Hit 300:
The COC is of similar concept. You have an offer "you can participate, subject to terms and conditions;"
The terms and conditions are that you relinquish the rights granted to you by the constitution for "fair hearing", "a jury of your peers", "the right against self incrimination", and a host of others. It usurps the justice system and replaces it with its own form of school justice where oversight is not administered. Flat out, it is wrong and violates the most basic sense of what our country is founded on. No where else in society can you go and find this kind of autonomous and constitutionally abusive government sponsored authority.
mythreesons
<edited by Moderator> <The discussion revolving around specific individuals on this subject is closed>
while i have a great deal of respect for law enforcement. after watching the recent nfl player treated the way he was over a red light, makes me think. but that's another story for another time.
<edited by Moderator> <The discussion revolving around specific individuals on this subject is closed>
while i have a great deal of respect for law enforcement. after watching the recent nfl player treated the way he was over a red light, makes me think. but that's another story for another time.
quote:Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
The policy might be a good one in that it might save lives.
CD,
With all due respect, that is the poster child reason for abuse of the constitution and trampling of rights. There are thousands of policies and laws we could pass that would satisfy that requirement, if only we were willing to give up the right of self determination.
We could start by passing laws that require people outside to wear sunscreen and end with banning all non required automobile traffic. Hey it'll save lives.
For every law and policy, there is a price. Sometimes that price is merely an inconvenience, like a school zone speed limit. But when that price becomes the relinquishing of constitutionally granted rights, it should be handled with a great deal more scrutiny and skepticism than simply, "it'll save some lives".