High School Baseball: Crazy energetic coach vs Laid Back coach

One doesn't matter over the other.  What matters is that the player's buy into or the coach recruits those that buy into the coach.  If the coach is a great coach, and the players trust and believe in them then they are fine.  Every great coach at the end of the day is a mixture of both.

if by crazy energetic you mean positive...  maybe.  but generally i dont believe 'energy' means much in a baseball coach.  Energy to run a good practice, yes.  Energy to constantly learn and improve, for sure.  Energy to do the best for his players always, absolutely.  Yelling at a baseball game?  waste of time and only possibility is negative.  Go with the calm cool collected!

Credible - thats what a HS baseball coach needs to be, credible.  I've seen that up close with our younger son and boy was it a thing of beauty!

All that matters is the players buy in and follow the leader. I could list several reasons why my son's high school coach was not a good coach. Some parents bitched about him the entire time. Unless a kid was a star he didn't know where he stood. That was only because he could tell himself he was good. It didn't come from the coach. My son (a star) said the coach made one positive statement to him in four years. But the players bought in enough to win.

If the coach hollers and screams, but wins, he is a strict disciplinarian that commands respect.  If the coach is laid back, runs a loose ship and wins, he is a players coach.   Switch the winning to losing and the screaming coach is an idiot and the loose coach is lazy.   Just the way it is and both approaches work, until they don't....lol. 

Which one has the 11yo on the bump?

JCG posted:

Which one has the 11yo on the bump?

Ok that was just too funny!

RJM and IEBSBL have it right.  The important thing is the players buy into his program.  It doesn't matter if the coach is laid back or is up tight and yells.  Most of my son's coaches were a little of both.

I was/am a yeller and screamer.  We tend to win.  So, I guess we're ok until we lose. 

High school coaches are teachers and people managers.  They come in many styles.   If your son plays for a high school coach that teaches them to play the right way,  develops & encourages their talent, and is fair then you are way ahead of the ballgame.  it won't matter if they are energetic or laid back.    As always JMO.

When I was coach we had both. I was yeller/ next stop talking coach. My assistant who was every bit my equal in all ways except who took out lineup card was the calm one. worked very well for our team. My job was to fire em up. His was to keep em calm.  On the rare occasion he got fired up, I became calm

Last year I saw a 17u coach, who is typically laid back with the occasional snarky comment, completely blow up.  It was one of those games where every player seemed to hit to the opposing teams glove and when someone did miraculously get on base it seemed like every call went to the other team. 

With about 2 innings to go the coach argued a close call vehemently and got removed from the field and sent to the parking lot.  I passed him on my way up to my car to get something and he was calm as a cucumber again and smiling.  I asked him if he was okay and he said "Yeah, those types of games are just soul suckers, the boys needed to get a little fire in them, my getting kicked out seemed to have worked, they are rallying." Sure enough, they were. So, my vote is have a coach that knows what their players need to succeed.

CaCO3Girl posted:

Last year I saw a 17u coach, who is typically laid back with the occasional snarky comment, completely blow up.  It was one of those games where every player seemed to hit to the opposing teams glove and when someone did miraculously get on base it seemed like every call went to the other team. 

With about 2 innings to go the coach argued a close call vehemently and got removed from the field and sent to the parking lot.  I passed him on my way up to my car to get something and he was calm as a cucumber again and smiling.  I asked him if he was okay and he said "Yeah, those types of games are just soul suckers, the boys needed to get a little fire in them, my getting kicked out seemed to have worked, they are rallying." Sure enough, they were. So, my vote is have a coach that knows what their players need to succeed.

I can not agree with him in the least.  How would embarrassing yourself and getting thrown out of a game make you payers better at baseball?  Baseball is a game of confidence and concentration.  It is not a momentum sport unless you believe confidence can increase with others success which I may buy into.  But its not like football.or basketball where you can dig down deep for something extra.

2020dad posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

Last year I saw a 17u coach, who is typically laid back with the occasional snarky comment, completely blow up.  It was one of those games where every player seemed to hit to the opposing teams glove and when someone did miraculously get on base it seemed like every call went to the other team. 

With about 2 innings to go the coach argued a close call vehemently and got removed from the field and sent to the parking lot.  I passed him on my way up to my car to get something and he was calm as a cucumber again and smiling.  I asked him if he was okay and he said "Yeah, those types of games are just soul suckers, the boys needed to get a little fire in them, my getting kicked out seemed to have worked, they are rallying." Sure enough, they were. So, my vote is have a coach that knows what their players need to succeed.

I can not agree with him in the least.  How would embarrassing yourself and getting thrown out of a game make you payers better at baseball?  Baseball is a game of confidence and concentration.  It is not a momentum sport unless you believe confidence can increase with others success which I may buy into.  But its not like football.or basketball where you can dig down deep for something extra.

It's not a momentum sport?  We will have to agree to disagree on that one.

As for embarrassing himself...not sure I agree.  He didn't use foul language, he didn't use physical force....it was a tough game to watch where it appeared that everything that could have gone either way went to the other team and every one of those players was doing the stoic baseball thing...no facial emotion, no sign that a call was upsetting or just plain wrong.  The usually calm and collected coach yelling out what every one of them was thinking and not able to say...well if I was a player it would have made me feel better.

I'm a laid back baseball coach but a yelling basketball coach.  

2020dad posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

Last year I saw a 17u coach, who is typically laid back with the occasional snarky comment, completely blow up.  It was one of those games where every player seemed to hit to the opposing teams glove and when someone did miraculously get on base it seemed like every call went to the other team. 

With about 2 innings to go the coach argued a close call vehemently and got removed from the field and sent to the parking lot.  I passed him on my way up to my car to get something and he was calm as a cucumber again and smiling.  I asked him if he was okay and he said "Yeah, those types of games are just soul suckers, the boys needed to get a little fire in them, my getting kicked out seemed to have worked, they are rallying." Sure enough, they were. So, my vote is have a coach that knows what their players need to succeed.

I can not agree with him in the least.  How would embarrassing yourself and getting thrown out of a game make you payers better at baseball?  Baseball is a game of confidence and concentration.  It is not a momentum sport unless you believe confidence can increase with others success which I may buy into.  But its not like football.or basketball where you can dig down deep for something extra.

Disagree, seen it to many times not to be true. Hitting can be contagious which can also boost confidence and energy on defensive side....momentum swing.

My sons team had several coaches, each with a role. The head coaches' wife's role was yelling at the kids. Some people didn't like it, my son did. She coached him in basketball and yelled, came to his cross country meets and yelled. Sat in the stands and baseball and yelled. He said he always knew she cared when she yelled at him. And honestly, she only yelled at kids who had more to give. I think different kids need different coaches. A good coach figures out to give them what they need. 

I dont believe you should have to yell to get your point across, if you do then there are probably other issues. Of course, there is a time and place for everything, we're only human and some cant take more then others. Ive seen many coaches who are "yellers" and the parents of our team are usually saying "will you shut up already, he must like to here himself yell", also, the players of those coaches probably had the poorest body language and attitudes ive seen, not sure if thats a result of yelling or the cause of it.

hsbaseball101 posted:

I'm a laid back baseball coach but a yelling basketball coach.  

Funny because that describes me to a T also!

johnnysako posted:

2020dad posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

Last year I saw a 17u coach, who is typically laid back with the occasional snarky comment, completely blow up.  It was one of those games where every player seemed to hit to the opposing teams glove and when someone did miraculously get on base it seemed like every call went to the other team. 

With about 2 innings to go the coach argued a close call vehemently and got removed from the field and sent to the parking lot.  I passed him on my way up to my car to get something and he was calm as a cucumber again and smiling.  I asked him if he was okay and he said "Yeah, those types of games are just soul suckers, the boys needed to get a little fire in them, my getting kicked out seemed to have worked, they are rallying." Sure enough, they were. So, my vote is have a coach that knows what their players need to succeed.

I can not agree with him in the least.  How would embarrassing yourself and getting thrown out of a game make you payers better at baseball?  Baseball is a game of confidence and concentration.  It is not a momentum sport unless you believe confidence can increase with others success which I may buy into.  But its not like football.or basketball where you can dig down deep for something extra.

Disagree, seen it to many times not to be true. Hitting can be contagious which can also boost confidence and energy on defensive side....momentum swing.

So then we agree right?  Not disagree?  The passage you put in bold says that I am open minded to confidence increasing as you see others succeed.  I guess the only difference is I am open to it and you have made up your mind.  Kind of splitting hairs don't you think?  But I will say my belief is that momentum is more the factor of a tiring pitcher or a pitching change.  Or perhaps the third time through where they have figured some things out.  Any way you slice it baseball is more cerebral than emotional.  And thats part of what I love about it.  One thing Gordie Gillespie said that I remind my pitchers of constantly - "a pitcher never shows emotion".  And I think that holds for hitters as well.  Mind you this pertains to when they are on the bump or in the box.  A little fun in the dugout (without getting out of control) is always a good thing.

P.S.  I don't ever want my players to be stoic.  I want them to have fun with the game.  Baseball is a unique sport with so much downtime.  Got to have some fun while of course maintaining you attention to the game.

Both types can be, and have been, very successful.

I always wanted players to act professional, so it was necessary for the coaches to act professional. Arguing with an umpire is one thing, but we never yelled at the players any louder than what it took for communication purposes.  Player make a mental error it went in the notes and we discussed after the game during a team meeting.  Probably just me, but I very seldom felt the need to yell or go crazy.  At the same time I was never laid back or lacked energy.

Coaches have their own style and as long as they get the most out of what the player has to give, it doesn't much matter if they are loud and crazy or quiet and laid back. With that in mind, good coaches have the same rules for everyone, but  they treat players as individuals. So how you communicate with one player might be much different than another player.  In the end you want the best out of every player, no matter what it takes.

As a baseball coach I was in control of my emotions. If I wasn't happy the players got the laser glare. Then the player talked with the assistant who was a little rough on him. Then the other assistant grabbed the kid and told it was because the coaches care about the players so much. The times I would get excited were great hustle and defensive plays.

The two times I was extremely ticked off I talked and talked and talked after the game. And talked. The kids were motivated by not hearing boring talks. My son asked if it was possible to yell at them for five minutes rather than drone on for a half hour.

Basketball is a different sport. It's a speed and adrenaline sport. There's also the noise level in the room. I didn't yell at players. But I yelled to them a lot. I noticed if I yelled out defenses a certain way the players adrenaline level and intensity was up.

2020dad posted:

johnnysako posted:

2020dad posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

Last year I saw a 17u coach, who is typically laid back with the occasional snarky comment, completely blow up.  It was one of those games where every player seemed to hit to the opposing teams glove and when someone did miraculously get on base it seemed like every call went to the other team. 

With about 2 innings to go the coach argued a close call vehemently and got removed from the field and sent to the parking lot.  I passed him on my way up to my car to get something and he was calm as a cucumber again and smiling.  I asked him if he was okay and he said "Yeah, those types of games are just soul suckers, the boys needed to get a little fire in them, my getting kicked out seemed to have worked, they are rallying." Sure enough, they were. So, my vote is have a coach that knows what their players need to succeed.

I can not agree with him in the least.  How would embarrassing yourself and getting thrown out of a game make you payers better at baseball?  Baseball is a game of confidence and concentration.  It is not a momentum sport unless you believe confidence can increase with others success which I may buy into.  But its not like football.or basketball where you can dig down deep for something extra.

Disagree, seen it to many times not to be true. Hitting can be contagious which can also boost confidence and energy on defensive side....momentum swing.

So then we agree right?  Not disagree?  The passage you put in bold says that I am open minded to confidence increasing as you see others succeed.  I guess the only difference is I am open to it and you have made up your mind.  Kind of splitting hairs don't you think?  But I will say my belief is that momentum is more the factor of a tiring pitcher or a pitching change.  Or perhaps the third time through where they have figured some things out.  Any way you slice it baseball is more cerebral than emotional.  And thats part of what I love about it.  One thing Gordie Gillespie said that I remind my pitchers of constantly - "a pitcher never shows emotion".  And I think that holds for hitters as well.  Mind you this pertains to when they are on the bump or in the box.  A little fun in the dugout (without getting out of control) is always a good thing.

P.S.  I don't ever want my players to be stoic.  I want them to have fun with the game.  Baseball is a unique sport with so much downtime.  Got to have some fun while of course maintaining you attention to the game.

 

One question is...."How would getting ejected help your players play better baseball?'  I can't say it does but I would like to say this.  In my last 7 year coaching I have been ejected 6 times.  We are 5-1 in the games I was ejected in and we are undefeated in the game after.  On top of that we have always played better.  Now based off these stats you might think that I have gotten ejected on purpose, I HAVE NEVER GOTTEN EJECTED ON PURPOSE.  My point is this.....Every time I have been ejected it has been in a situation that I was sticking up for my players, normally over a call.  Sometimes players need to see that you will stick up for them no matter what it takes.

This and the pitch count are the regular February and March topics.

IMO the question should not be phrased as "Which style is better?" but rather more accurately -

"Is it ever OK for full grown adults in any way to abuse teenagers?" 

When phrased this way I suspect that the answer becomes significantly skewed toward no it is not OK.  Justifying abuse on kids is near impossible.  The best defense of it you will usually get is the ends justify the means.  Team won or players improved so it worked - get lost all you loser wimps. 

If that is true and stipulating to that argument - then why limit this brilliant teaching tactic to just sports?  It needs to be going on in classrooms everywhere.   Won't happen though - because as a society we have long ago decided it is unacceptable everywhere with the lone shrinking exception being our kids playing fields.  The fact this is even a topic shows that point.

Honestly I cannot figure out why that is the case.  My best guess is that our society places such emphasis on winning these games - even in HS - that we are far more tolerant than we would be of the same behavior elsewhere.  

No fears though.  Cameras are everywhere and sooner or later the continuing march of coaches to the woodshed will eliminate the ones that can't stop and it will change the behavior of those that can.  The game will survive and players will play, improve and win the games.  Just the same way we now let them drink water or Gatorade at practice.  Back in my day 35-40 years ago those wimps would have just had to suck it up and been tougher and lived without hydration until they hit the showers. 

Funny how things change - and almost always for the better.  The biggest exception to that truism I can think of is taking butter out of anything always makes it worse. 

I thank the Lord I had some "abusive" coaches in my life.

Yeah, I have had and have been around plenty of yellers.  Very few, I would consider abusive.  There were those very few and then there were some yellers where you instantly felt it was either not effective, was awkward or uncomfortable.  I don't consider "uncomfortable" as abusive but I know we all have different interpretations, beliefs, tolerances and sensitivities on that topic. 

Then, there were plenty of yellers or stern type coaches that I thought were VERY effective.  I think most good coaches have a personality that leans one way or another but have both in their arsenal and know, pretty much, when each is needed.  I think there are SO many parallels with coaching and parenting, particularly through the HS and even in many ways, college level. 

Honestly, my son was fine with his yelling coaches. The coach who made him uncomfortable was the one he said "acts like he likes me better than his own son."  Needless to say, other boy wasn't as good a player and didn't work as hard. 

I yell. I don't belittle, but I am demanding a lot of times. I use it as a tool to provide pressure. We also use running, pushups, lunges with a 45, among other things to add pressure to a practice or a game. We run a high pressure practice so the players get used to performing under pressure. If we are winning a game 7-0 and playing well, I find something to pick apart. Something to add some pressure to the game. If we are playing in the area championship and we are throwing our ace against their ace and it's a 2-2 game, I am the most encouraging coach you have ever seen. The game/situation has enough pressure in itself. I just want my guys competing their tales off. I want fierce competitors at every position and in the dugout. I can't tell you how many times we have ran foul poles in between innings of a 8-0 game. The other coaches and parents look at you like you're nuts. Maybe they are right! Lol

Everyone has their own style. For me it works best if I show quiet intensity. I will talk to my boys. I will coach them. If I yell it will be in practice, and they know they screwed up to get me to that point. They know I will confront an umpire and stick up for them. By the way young coaches, you can say a lot more to an ump if you do it quietly than if you yell! I have found that I can think better if I am calm. Yellers want to inspire and that is great but coaching and execution with confidence will beat an inspired team that is not coached in the moment nearly every time. Enthusiasm and passion are musts and a silent bench can be boring so I have my assistant do some energizing if we need it so that I can stay focused on game management.

As for getting thrown out, I was a couple of times very early in my career. If my team is winning by me leaving the game, I need to give my assistant more credit or wonder why my team does so well with me gone! You don't need to leave the game to show your players, you have their backs, but you must stick up for them.

All I know is at the start of the game the umpire says, "Play ball" not work ball. I have never done a lot of yelling and I have gotten more even keeled as the years roll by. I always thought those that yelled to motivate should be carrying pom-poms and wearing a skirt. Early in my career I had a great coach tell me that if I hammered a player when he did bad and cheered when he did good, then I was no different that the guy sitting in the stands eating popcorn. Like someone else said, I think better if I am calm.... and that is a big part of what a coach should be doing game time.... thinking  and controlling the game.

I've played for both (calm and fiery) ltypes of coaches and neither bothered me much. I told my son that he better figure out how to please whatever coach he gets.  

Last fall our OC (8th grade) "raised his voice" so that the entire offense could hear what he was saying and the kid broke down and started crying. That's pretty sad!

I have no problem with my kid getting yelled at if he deserves it. He understands that he can't take stuff personal but should accept the challenge of getting better. I have seen the calmest coaches turn up the volume to get the a player or the teams attention. I will say that football coaches seem to yell more than baseball coaches. Good coaches, no matter the sport, know how to push the right buttons at the right time.