High School Coaches that have never played in High School or the next level

Are there any other HS in your area that your son could transfer to?  Private School? 

One thing I did when mine were younger was to check out the HS programs in the area and see which one might have an established coach or a school that puts an emphasis on baseball. A lot of schools do not since baseball does not generate money like football and basketball.

Your son is in 10th grade, make a move for the last two years, and get on a good summer program. I can tell you from exp. it will likely not get better during the time your son is enrolled... My sons play at a very good HS with a strong tradition but it took 15 years to get there and we had a great coach.

you have a short window, send him to another school if that's what he wants.

Apply for the job?

Personally, I don't think that a coach has to have played college ball to be a good coach.  My menotor won over 800 games as a HS coach and never played in college.  I played college.  I was not good.  Does that then mean that I can't be a good high school coach?  Do you have a qualifier for how good a college player has to have been for them to be a good coach?  The truth is, many of the people who have played at the highest level do so due to good genetics and athleticism and not simply due to knowledge.  Also, the ability to transfer knowledge is a gift and not inherent in many who have played the game.  I am not one of those who thinks that players know why they do what they do because they have taken the time to break the game down.  Per college, what level of college ball will they have had to play in order to know the game?  I played D-II.  Do I qualify.  What about D-III?  NAIA?  I guess you get the point.  Heck, a lot of good coaches I have known are good coaches not for what they did on the field but rather because they were students of the game.  Some rarely, if ever, hit the field.  They sat in dugouts, talked the game, listened to coaches and grew in their experiences. I don’t know whether your son’s coach knows the game or not but his playing resume isn’t and indicator of what he may or may not know about the game.   JMHO!

Thanks

Thank You. I appreciate your response. I guess some people take things personal no matter what. We are thinking about doing just that.

I'm not saying a coach has to have played college ball or any other ball in order to be a good coach. Honestly, it would take too long to explain this. As in your case, there are always exceptions to the rule. My point was/is this guy doesn't know the game. He's not a mentor, and is not a student of the game. He has never palyed. He was hired for this job by default. Don't take it personal. I'm only stating the facts.

Well if you know the game if the job opens apply for it.

Thanks

You're saying it's not personal but how many times has someone gotten on a message board and tried to discredit you or what you're doing?  There's no other way to take this than personally.  I have no doubt that what you're saying is true and you don't have a good coach but don't be surprised when other coaches respond how they have.  When I was reading your opening post the exact same thought that ironhorse, Will and Coach B25 just put.  Is there a nicer way of asking what you did - I don't know but you shouldn't be surprised in the responses.  Each one of us and every coach on this site and who has a team has been criticized like this whether it was warranted or not.  I had a parent doing a radio broadcast of one of my games criticize me on the air because he didn't like what I was doing.  Was he right or was I?  I have no idea because whatever it was I called didn't work but if it had then he probably never says what he did.  Coaches tend to protect each other in times like these because we've all been through it UNTIL we know for a fact that the guy is a bad coach.  Example - when it was first posted on here about the Rutgers basketball coach my first thought before opening the thread and link was "is this going to be a coach bashing thread".  Then I saw the video and joined in with the criticism because he deserves it.

As for transferring schools please consider the academic effect it will cause.  Will your son be going to a school with a weak academic standard or a better standard or the same?  If it's weaker then you are making a mistake.  The opportunities for baseball are out there besides just high school.  There is the arguement to be made that by sticking at this school is going to help your son build character by persevering through this bad coach.  Well it might or it might not - a lot of that will depend on what you tell your kid.  If you tell him to keep at it and understand the frustrations that come with it are not the end of the world.  You do this it will help him grow as a person.  If you tell your son this guy is a joke and is wrong for keeping him on the bench then you will turn your son into a "victim" who will look to blame others for failure instead of working towards something.  If you can't turn this into as positive a situation as you can then transfer him because you will do more harm than good in turning your son into a "victim".

But now what happens if at the new school he doesn't play - what then? 

No prob.

PS - If your guys really were "very talented" they would be exposed to the game by coaches other than just their HS coach. They would understand the game some with out his direction, and they would be a "below average" baseball program, as you put it. I'm guessing, while the coach may not be great, the kids aren't as good as you believe and it's easier to blame him.

The reality is that at high school coaching is becoming an afterthought for the less popular sports.  Most of these guys get a small stipend (maybe a few thousdand) to coach -- the good ones don't do it for the money.  Chances are that your school is lucky to have a coach at all.  I have no doubt that what you say about this guy is true.  But what is the alternative?  Who is going to step up and coach? 

The real problem is that the kids who grew up playing the original Nintendos, and hitting the Reset button whenever Tecmo Bowl screwed them, are now raising kids that hit the Reset button on Xbox and the like.

Meaning, our society in general looks to hit a Reset button every time life hands them lemons. We shake our heads about how kids don't work hard or stick things out any more, without realizing how we're laying that foundation.

You don't like the baseball coach and transfer schools? Fine. But don't wonder why your kid doesn't have a problem quitting things later on in life. 

For the record, I don't take this personal and am a member here and elsewhere because I think I have something to add.  I don't participate as often as I once did but felt the need to respond because of the criticism of coaching without having participating at a higher level.  I hope you understand that.  I know coaches who played at very high levels and couldn't wait for my team to play them.  We handed out some butt whoppings because they waited for the long ball and we bunted them to death.  I've coached against some guys who never played and knew my teams had better beware because some of those guys can coach.  So, again, playing experience isn't necessary to some coach's success.  I do think it helps.

Per your situation, You have some tough decisions to make.  Is there a private school in your area that has good coaching and you'd feel good about sending your child to?  Is there some way for the players to step up some and help out?  By this I mean, make suggestions to this coach about things that they do/have done that they think helped their game so that the coach can be exposed to these ideas and have the ability to think some of these drills etc. through? 

Finally, I get tired of defending poor coaches but realize that often some of these guys want to do well for the kids, are busing their butts and yet walk around with targets on their backs.  I met a young man at a school about 45 minutes away from my school.  He called me up and asked me if he could spend a day at one of my practices.  He was "forced" to be the coach and was swimming the best he could trying to go upstream.  After I met him and spend time with him, I gave him all of my coaching files.  He did great work with that program only to have enough success to get fired.  IOWs, they made it to a regional championship and then he was fired because they didn't win it.  Now, that school wins maybe 10 games a year and he is out of coaching.  That is the real world of coaching.

Please forgive me for the multiple posts.  When I became a head coach, I didn't care about the money.  I love coaching.  In fact, I was hired to be a head coach in one sport here at the school I coach at and was told that despite my experience, I would be paid the minimum.  I was the lowest paid coach in the district but I digress.  I was told that I had 3 years to win.  If I didn't, I'd be fired.  Fired as a teacher and coach.  I asked for keys to my equipment.  I received the keys but no one knew where the equipment was.  I had none or little.  I had an ATEC machine but the wheels were melted.  I didn't have practice balls, game balls, catching equipment ...  I spent a lot of time focused on things other than coaching the game itself.  When spring came around, I had borrowed a cage, bought two pitching machines, built a frame for the cage, built a bullpen, ...  Still all people wanted to do was complain that things were different.  Complaining is Human Nature.  You bet things were different!  We won! 

A little off from the original post, but I just have to say that some places in the country are like night and day compared to my area. (S. Florida)

Down here I would say a coach who wasn't a former college or pro player would be the exception by far.

Heck, even my son's travel coaches for the past couple of years are former college and pro players.

Then I come here and see posts like this and I realize that we're not the norm.

Of course being a former pro or college player doesn't mean they are any good as a coach - but they're probably at least more knowledgeable than someone who gets defaulted into the job.

Everyone knows that all coaches are not equal in ability or knowledge. We could go on forever discussing bad coaches and bad situations. I'm sure there are millions of stories and it seems like I've read half of them here at this site.

Here is my story FWIW.  Never did search around for the best baseball program. Our kids were going to the HS that was in their district no matter how good baseball or the,coach was. They were not going to transfer just because of baseball. I would never even think about complaining about the coach because in nearly every case things work better when you support the coach.

I never thought any coach would ruin our sons baseball experience. Baseball is fun, it's not life or death.  If you play long enough you will experience many coaches. Some much better than others. So playing for a less than ideal HS coach is actually a benefit. It provides experience in dealing with things.  

Bottom line... No HS coach should ever be able to ruin a baseball player. True baseball players do not allow that to happen.  Complaining, for the most part, is a waste in time and energy.  Much better off making the necessary adjustments.  Complaining becomes a cancer and it becomes contagious to all those who listen and agree. Before long everyone is miserable.  Worst of all, what are the kids learning!  

So you get a bad coach... Big deal... Make the most of it! Because in the end, if you are good enough to play for a long time, you will run into a bad coach and there will be nothing you can do about it other than make the most out of it.

The absolute sad thing is that there is a lot of truth to both of these.  It looks to me that high school sports are heading to a rec level status where it's about equal playing time, nobody gets their feelings hurt and things like that.  It seems that administrators who have a backbone are disappearing.  Luckily I work for one that has one and supports sports but I've had principals who cave into parent pressure.  When that happens things get miserable.

Ok so this was way off topic........sorry

A couple disclaimers... 1.) I am a HS coach. 2.) I notice that your bio shows you as the player and not the parent, so I will just assume I am addressing the parent.

As your son continues playing, I can assure you that, with every coach he plays for, there will be good things he can learn from and other things he will not like.  If he is having a particularly difficult challenge with the current HC in HS, that's awesome - he can learn to push past the hurdles (if he really loves playing and wishes to continue beyond HS).  Most likely, his college opportunities will come from a good summer program or other avenues anyway.

There are still many coaches that are yellers.  While that isn't typically my gig, I have seen many players who are otherwise difficult to motivate react and benefit by this style.  Same goes for coaches who tell a kid he needs to get stronger.  Every coach has strengths and weaknesses.  While this guy may not know the game as well as others, he may be a good motivator or, if he is a football coach, still is a good evaluator of athleticism and competitiveness.

One of the hardest lessons for sports and business is to learn to work on and embrace what the boss thinks is the right way instead of what you think is the right way.  There is another great opportunity.

Another key lesson for your son is to focus on being the best he can be instead of always comparing himself to others.  Yes, you want to be aware of where you stand against the competition, but don't focus on why you aren't getting your fair share - focus on improving yourself and leaving no doubt who should get the playing time.

As a parent, some of the worst things you can do are 1.) show lack of support and respect of the coach in front of your son and 2) be part of the parent conspiracy group bashing the coach.  Be part of the solution.  Keep an eye out for someone with baseball experience willing to jump in and offer support... with the right approach, HC would likely welcome the help. 

Also, as a parent, it is natural to recognize and highlight our kids' strengths and it becomes difficult to truly be objective when it comes to assessing where our own stand, coach's abilities aside.

Hooking up with a good summer team and doing the right showcases is a given regardless of the HS situation.

Best wishes..

 PS - as I was typing, PG said it better.

Let me just say I have seen some ex college/pro guys go on to coach high school and were absolutely horrible. I have seen some pitchers try and coach high school and they had no clue how to run practices/games with their defense/offense because they never played in the field or had to bat. Just remember, just because they did play at a higher level doesn't always mean they are meant to coach. Some are, some aren't. I always chuckle when I hear so and so just brought on a guy who used to play pro ball. My thought is "Big deal! Can he coach?" Most don't hang around long at the HS level.

Excellent point.  I've seen this so many times where guys have played at a high level and hired mostly because of that and just turn out to be really poor coaches.  So, sometimes I wonder if such a person is hired mostly as an attraction. While having experience at the advanced levels can certainly be useful, the primary issue should always be "can he coach".  IMHO   

IMO that is EXACTLY why they get hired. It simply looks sexy. If/when I am the A.D., I would be very careful who I would hire. Not just baseball either.

Let me give another example; I talked to a high school A.D. who said they were so excited when they hired a former D1 girls basketball coach to coach the girls HS program. The A.D. said before the season even started their were major issues. The coach was out of her league. She was expecting WAY too much from the quality she was used to to her current quality. I simply said they hired the D1 coach because it looked good to other schools/parents/players, etc. The D1 was over qualified imo. Now, this is a coach who coaches the exact same sport and it wasn't working out.

Imagine if an ex pro, who has never coached before goes to a high school. It could backfire big time. Most of the time it does. Coaching is an art. You have to spend a lot of time cultivating the art to a masterpiece, not just jump right in expecting to be a world beater.

I wasn't going to respond to your last message but after thinking about your response, I felt like I should. Apparently you must have been a victim to coach bashing which was never my intent. Because I am a god fearing adult, I will apologize to you and any other coach I may have offended. I would never indulge in coach bashing. I have nothing to gain from it.

PS- just move on

Point well taken

No problem. Your point is well taken.

My high school coach ended up in the state baseball Hall of Fame for winning so much. The guy knew little about judging talent and coaching. He knew all the baseball cliches though. While I was there he started two players over Legion starters. Legion was hard to make in those days. Our team's recruiting zone was five high schools. The high school team won because we were well trained in Babe Ruth and Legion ball. The two players who didn't start kept their mouths shut, supported the team, played Legion and were recruited for college ball. A pitcher who never got a shot in high school pitched in the CWS.