High School Coaching Expectations - what should a parent reasonably expect?

IMO you have to go watch and see. In my experience it ranges the whole spectrum. In my area, suburban, extremely travel program heavy, solid legion teams to due depth at most schools despite the travel team, 500 plus kids per grade in every school. It is typical for good teams to have 3 or 4 and sometimes more future college pitchers on the staff every year.

You will find some schools are extremely well coached, well drilled, run almost year round programs, have an organizational structure and identity....so shocking enough they also tend to be ones that win every year.

You will find others that have a guy who cares, kind of gets it, doesn't always understand how to run a program effectively, may not be willing to put in the work to set up and run a really good program. They will be the schools that are usually ok, occasionally get a good group of kids and win a league or catch fire and do better for a year...then they fall back to around 500 give or take most years.

Then you have the perennial losers, often times they are a district that just doesn't care, the coach is a D-bag or just a super guy who loves the kids and wants / tries to do his best...but he is pretty much over matched. I have found with these teams there is often a shocking amount of talent that just kind of sits and goes to waste. Then you see 5 or 6 of those kids on the summer circuit competing and being legit solid players and you wonder why you ever see that in the spring.

What can you expect:

Drama.

if you can see past the drama, it is a lot of fun.

• You should expect that the coach knows the rules and abides by both the playing rules and the state association rules.  
• You should expect that the coach has some system in place for parent and player communication.
• You should expect that the coach knows the difference between coaching a team and running a program.
• You should expect that the coach knows the players in the system and has talked to a majority of them about their prospects in the program.
• You should expect an organized tryout with skills that are measurable.  These skills should be measured over multiple days.
• You should expect some reasonable practice schedule though you should know that it is not set in stone.

You should not expect:

• That a coach runs a game, practice or program as you think it should be run.  In the long run, it is their job on the line if they fail.
• That a coach will drop everything to talk to you after a game or practice.  I have parents set up a meeting with the AD and so, the AD will be there with me in that meeting so there is a witness to everything said.
• That your coach will play your son as you think he should be played.
• That a coach agrees with you on the position Jon Jon plays due to what position he played during the summer. 
• That the coach even cares what TB Program that the player plays in.

Completely agree with Old School about the wide spectrum on what you see in HS baseball and coaching.  Even within our league of six teams in a baseball hotbed like SoCal, you see the huge differences in coaches and programs, opportunities for players to play in college, and so on.

One thing I believe most long-time posters will agree on with this subject is that no parent should ever rely on their HS baseball program or HS coach to get them to the next level of college baseball.  Some of the elite HS programs and coaches still have reputations and connections to significantly help a kid get recruited to play college baseball.  But the vast majority of them do not, and too many kids miss a chance to play college baseball waiting around expecting to be noticed by college coaches through their HS games and HS coach.

There are numerous threads on this forum about the importance of travel ball, getting private coaching, pursuing workouts at baseball specialty facilities, going to Perfect Game events and other showcases like Headfirst, Stanford, Showball etc. and so on.  Except for those rare top HS talented players, you and your son need to take charge of his future if he wants to play college baseball.  Stay within the parameters of what the HS coach wants him to do in season, but then set your own path for the rest of the year. Find a balance where the HS coach would be a positive reference if a college coach called (which seems to happen less and less now) but seek other options like travel ball coaches or private instructors who can be references with scouts and recruiters. There are numerous instances of kids who were able to land roster spots on college teams despite being on poor HS programs with bad coaches because they took the initiative to get seen by college coaches who recognized their talent.  Sadly, there are likely just as many talented kids who are not playing college baseball because they relied entirely on the HS coach and program to get them exposure to colleges.

Nice list by CoachB25.

Longsuffering... your question is very broad and can be taken in countless directions.  Also, stated as is, it is likely to turn into just another HS coach bashing thread or coach vs parent thread.  You may want to just ask questions more specific to the issues that are of concern to you.  Maybe we can shed some light.  Or maybe you should be concerned 

Backstop22 posted:

Completely agree with Old School about the wide spectrum on what you see in HS baseball and coaching.  Even within our league of six teams in a baseball hotbed like SoCal, you see the huge differences in coaches and programs, opportunities for players to play in college, and so on.

One thing I believe most long-time posters will agree on with this subject is that no parent should ever rely on their HS baseball program or HS coach to get them to the next level of college baseball.  Some of the elite HS programs and coaches still have reputations and connections to significantly help a kid get recruited to play college baseball.  But the vast majority of them do not, and too many kids miss a chance to play college baseball waiting around expecting to be noticed by college coaches through their HS games and HS coach.

There are numerous threads on this forum about the importance of travel ball, getting private coaching, pursuing workouts at baseball specialty facilities, going to Perfect Game events and other showcases like Headfirst, Stanford, Showball etc. and so on.  Except for those rare top HS talented players, you and your son need to take charge of his future if he wants to play college baseball.  Stay within the parameters of what the HS coach wants him to do in season, but then set your own path for the rest of the year. Find a balance where the HS coach would be a positive reference if a college coach called (which seems to happen less and less now) but seek other options like travel ball coaches or private instructors who can be references with scouts and recruiters. There are numerous instances of kids who were able to land roster spots on college teams despite being on poor HS programs with bad coaches because they took the initiative to get seen by college coaches who recognized their talent.  Sadly, there are likely just as many talented kids who are not playing college baseball because they relied entirely on the HS coach and program to get them exposure to colleges.

Will have to agree with Backstop on this one.  You get the entire range and styles of coaches.  If you do serious travel, then you can tell a well run program and one that isn't.  Talking with the upper class men parents can give you a hint to what kind of coach you have.  We just had our teach/basketball coach/baseball coach resign.  There is a big difference between a coach who teaches at a school and a teacher who coaches.  This guy was in it for the 10K he got in addition to his teacher's salary every year.  Now the issue comes in on who is going to replace him?  We have heard the rumors and some names on who went for it.  And there are two who my son refuses to play for.  While we would miss HS ball, he gets enough show case and exposure through his travel program.  There is a reason why there are programs that seem to always have transfers in (recruit).  Can't say the R word but everyone knows it happens.

Also depends on what your son is looking to get out of his HS program.   If is strictly to play with friends and have fun, doesn't really matter the end result.  

I would say there are 4 levels of coaches.  I have experienced all 4 during my son's years..these 4 guys are real coaches...but I won't name their school.  First 3 are in our league....4th isn't

1) Guy is a baseball wizard....multiple kids have gone to the majors.  Guy is a genius with pitchers.  3 or 4 in the MLB in the past 10 years...3 or 4 more in the minors, several at D1's and a ton of kids in college.  His program runs the school....even above football and basketball.  Great guy, runs camps and allows kids from all over the area to come and learn...even if they will play against him in the spring.  Crazy good off-season program and conditioning.

2) Great baseball guy....teams don't have near the talent that guy above does, but gets the most out of his kids. Team is always good and actually broke a multi-season league winning streak that #1's team had going a few years ago.  Not as many college guys...but partly because his program is #2 at the school behind football and probably equal with basketball so the guys can't commit full time to baseball like the kids do for #1. 

3) My son's HS coach.  Good guy, played D2, knows the game.  Teaches at a different school so he has no connection to the younger kids, and even though he lives in our town, makes no effort to do so.  Has actually had some really good success....partly due to the fact that he does know what he's doing, but he's also had a lot of good kids come thru.  If he had the "program" that #1 or #2 does and could  have kept some kids who left for basketball or football he could have competed with both of them every years.  Off-season workouts are basically up to the kids...other than him throwing BP for an hour on Saturdays during the winter.  No workouts, no weight training.  He has no connection with football or basketball coaches so the kids in those two sports basically feel like they are forced to choose.

4. Small town coach near us.  I coached against him when my son was in junior high.  Has no clue what is going on, but is the only guy in town who would take the job.  Absolutely no baseball knowledge at all....I have no idea what they would do at practice....their games were more like LL than varsity.   Played his kid at SS in HS even though he was hardly capable of playing 2B.  Ran off so many kids thru the years that they barely could field a varsity...and never a JV. 

Totally runs the gamut. In Northern Virginia, Fairfax County with a million+ people, there are baseball powerhouses with top-level coaching and a culture of baseball and winning.

But it is LIGHT YEARS easier to have a winning baseball culture if the local demographics FEED lots of kids with lots of baseball experience into the HS system (i.e., numbers game). NoVA also has plenty of schools that have few or no college players each class, struggle to go .500, and coaches that mean well but are over-matched. These schools typically don't have a big or successful LL program that feeds into them, so numbers, talent, and experience are down or way down. Rinse-and-repeat.

I'd say parents should expect their son's HS coach to respect their players and be committed to their health and well-being (*unless they only have 1-2 stud pitchers). Everything else is a total crapshoot.

High School Coaching Expectations - what should a parent reasonably expect?

I've had 3 sons play high school baseball.   This sums it up for me.

1) Fairness in playing time

2) The Coach will do what is best for the team to win

3) Develop skills and facilitate the athletes self-development outside of school

Bonus:   Help the athlete get recruited if he has the desire and talent

Agree with these comments...

There are numerous instances of kids who were able to land roster spots on college teams despite being on poor HS programs with bad coaches because they took the initiative to get seen by college coaches who recognized their talent.  Sadly, there are likely just as many talented kids who are not playing college baseball because they relied entirely on the HS coach and program to get them exposure to colleges.

Unfortunately, one of  the main reasons for the latter is money.  It takes enormous resources for a kid and his family to take the initiative on his own to be seen.  My son is in the former situation, but we knew what we were signing up for (high academic public school, unfavorable to Baseball demographics etc.).  Our choices were to move, go to local Catholic power house (and hope to just make the roster) or stay where he was with his friends, be the stud and get a tremendous academic education.  He stayed and through lots of $ spent on showcases, travel ball, prospect camps has some college opportunities.  His HS is completely outside the process...all done on his own.

LSMF,

KevinA makes a valid point about teacher/coaches.

I believe there are 4 types of HS coaches:

1. Coaches who are HS teachers first and foremost, but also coach either for the extra $800 (1st year HC salary in these parts), OR because they are pressured to do so in the teaching job interview by the principal (very common here).  Basically, if you want the teaching job?  You need to coach at least one sport and get a bus driving license.  My first teaching interview went great, had it all sewn up, then the principal asked if I'd be willing to coach football. I declined and did not get the job.  6-months later, same school, same principal, nailed the interview again, principal asked if I'd be willing to also coach girls' golf?  I jumped at it.   And strangely this time, got the job.  

2.  Coaches who are coaches first and foremost, but also happen to be career teachers.  These are folks whose day job is teaching in the classroom so they can fulfill their true calling and passion in the afternoon; coaching.  These people often coach multiple sports each year.  They really love coaching.  They tolerate classroom teaching.    

3.  Teachers/Coaches who are passionate and great at teaching/coaching AND are equally passionate and great at coaching/teaching.  These are the exceptions.  These types of educators/coaches are worth their weight in gold, I believe.  They (for the most part) are professionals in the classroom and on the field.  Principals love these types.  Usually cause principals minimal headaches.  Which is often the #1 criteria in a HS coach getting hired.  Principal simply asks self, "Is this hire going to become "3AM phone call" for me?"

4. And finally, coaches who are people from the local community willing to work coaching into their 9-5 jobs.  These are usually folks who know the game well, often played game in college, are passionate about coaching, but have no clue about how the school bureaucracy works, can't email teachers for class dismissal times, don't have bus driving licenses, and generally are not accustomed to oversight as many of these willing volunteers are entrepreneurs who can think for themselves and do not understand nor can they tolerate nor have patience for school bureaucracies.  These are usually people who definitely are not in it for the money, and as a matter of fact usually lose money in their businesses due to their HS coaching gig.  My principal avoids hiring these types of coaches.  

So Lonsufferingmetsfan, this is how I often categorize HS coaches.  For the record, I'm a #1.  My passion is teaching history, but through my son's years playing baseball I have developed into a decent JV HS baseball coach who can drive a school bus legally.  And I can throw BP.

Well.......

You can expect the coach to be an effective babysitter for 2-3 hours a day but not much else.  He doesn't even get paid a legal minimum wage considering how much time he spends with the kids.  

Great point from AD2018 about the financial cost outside of HS.  Like AD's son, my 2017 also made it to a college roster this year entirely on his own (plus my checkbook and credit card) outside the HS process.  But it does take a pretty substantial financial commitment.  I was willing to do that if he was willing to put in the work to become a better player, and in the end it was worth it. 

Lots of threads already exist about the costs of navigating through the HS years with the extras necessary to get recruited.  But I think most of us see the value in doing so even if it leads to no scholarship dollars...the things he learned on the journey has been incredible that should one day translate into success in other parts of his life.

Backstop22 posted:

Great point from AD2018 about the financial cost outside of HS.  Like AD's son, my 2017 also made it to a college roster this year entirely on his own (plus my checkbook and credit card) outside the HS process.  But it does take a pretty substantial financial commitment.  I was willing to do that if he was willing to put in the work to become a better player, and in the end it was worth it. 

Lots of threads already exist about the costs of navigating through the HS years with the extras necessary to get recruited.  But I think most of us see the value in doing so even if it leads to no scholarship dollars...the things he learned on the journey has been incredible that should one day translate into success in other parts of his life.

B-22, 

Agreed.   That’s why I often refer to the recruiting journey as a “campaign.”  Whether military or political, it is a crucible like process that in itself weeds out the weary, somehow, someway.    It must.  

And all campaigns are costly.   

Sorry, just realized my post is now waaaay off what OP originally asked.    

Apologies.   

hsbaseball101 posted:

You can expect the coach to be an effective babysitter for 2-3 hours a day but not much else.  He doesn't even get paid a legal minimum wage considering how much time he spends with the kids.  

Yeah, I guess you can look at it that way...

I did the math recently.  I make about $3/hr, half of which I give back to my assistants. 

So, let's say you drop your kid off every day after school with a group of 20 other kids.  Oh, and BTW, they will be put in a big sandbox once in a while to fight with another group of 20 kids.  You pay the babysitter $1.50 an hour (not for each kid... TOTAL) for several months and you get to come and yell and scream at the babysitter when he lets other kids stay in the sandbox longer when the two groups are fighting.  Oh, and the babysitter is expected to be an expert in his field with years of experience, be CPR certified, pass extensive background check, keep all the safety and incident records, be legally liable, order and manage all the playground clothes and toys, maintain the grounds, service the maintenance equipment, keep track of how much the kids are playing outside of the time with him, manage a daily planner so that the kids are playing nice and all having a good time, properly report any boo boo's or misbehavior and be legally responsible for missing any signs of the kid being abused at home.  Oh, and teach them all how to ride a bike and speak a foreign language proficiently.

Maybe your expectations should start there ?  

Of course, this is tongue-in-cheek as far as what expectations should be but, unfortunately, the task and the numbers are real.

 Longsuffering, you mentioned that you may lack context.  Perhaps this helps.

I was working of the softball diamond tonight before I had to get ready for my golf banquet.  As many of you know, I moved from baseball to softball when my daughter started playing in high school.  This is my 31st year of coaching HS sports and I have been the Head Coach of 4 sports.  I am currently wrapping up my teaching career as a JV coach in softball.  As we were marking the diamond to use a turf cutter and work on a bad lip, I had a couple of calls from college coaches.  When I got done, the Head Coach asked me if I had all of those coaches in 4 sports that I talk to in a Rolodex.  I broke out laughing.  They call me a lot more than I call them.  I am pushing a couple of players and they have become a hot commodity.  Oh, I do all the hitting in the program and we can flat out rake.  There are a few of us HS coaches out there that can still make that phone call and college coaches will listen.  

I’m going to explain an experience of a new coach and how he was received rather than define what a coach should be.

By the time my son was in 7th grade the high school had seventeen losing seasons in twenty years. The only winning seasons was when a player drafted high out of high school put the team on his back and carried them for three years. The parents owned this coach. It was a country club team. The most talented players usually went off to private and Catholic high schools to play. 

When my son was in 8th grade a promising young assistant from a power house high school was brought in as head coach. The shite hit the fan because he established he was in charge. Parents would no longer have any control over the team.

But it didn’t help the team went 6-16 his first two years. The parents thought the new coach would make their kids winners. You can’t win the Kentucky Derby with a plowhorse. The talent wasn’t there. 

This coach was at 8th grade practices a few times. He was at LL and Ripken games. He was aware of every kid 12-14yo who could play. He convinced the parents of these kids to play on quality summer teams, to get lessons, to attend his summer camp. 

When my son was a soph it all turned around. They were cruising in first place until a car accident put two pitchers out for the season. But they won the conference the next two years. The talented players were now staying at the high school. 

But on the sidelines was The Jury (of four). These were dads whose second or third kids were on the team. They had been around when they could control the coach. Of course these guys knew it all. They had coached years of rec ball in a terrible league. 

The Jury tried to poison their kids against the coach. They tried to poison other parents against the coach. As a respected travel coach parents asked me what I thought. This is where it nets out into what you’re looking for in a coach.

I explained before this coach arrived the program was a joke. You could pencil them in for last place before the season started. A successful season was coming in 7th. 

He brought organization and discipline to the program. His weaknessses are in game coaching and communication skills. But my son said he knows how to teach baseball in practice. But most importantly the team is winning and the kids are having fun.

Thanks to all for the good information and food for thought.  

We had a broader thread last month about what to expect about HS baseball in general, it was a good read.

http://community.hsbaseballweb...48#47192582103232748

Expect the coach to do what he wants because he is in charge (this includes playing favorites, playing another coaches younger brother who plays in all games and strikes out 95% of the time, running extra polls instead of bunting practice because two players can't execute a bunt in a game, playing catchers that throw hard and that's it - no accuracy, no blocking, no framing)

Generally, Most parent opinions of HS coaches is directly connected to playing time. If their kid plays the coach is fine....If their kid doesn't play the coach is a jackass.

Personally , what I learned while my son was in HS high school was that what goes on with my son and HS baseball is none of my business. It is between him and his coach. The only time i get involved is with fundraising. And the only time I speak to the coach about anything baseball related is when it involves an injury a rehab or Arm Care , Over Usage ( Pitcher )

I'd keep it simple. Don't expect anything from the coaches. Focus on making your son better and stronger the rest will take care of it's self.  One of many advices I learned here from more experienced baseball people. 

I tell my son now in college,  worry only about those things you can control. 

Your going to have good coaches and then there will be daddy ball coaches in high school.  Regardless of which extreme you experience, if your son has the skills, then he will make it to the next level.

What I learned while my son was in HS high school was that what goes on with my son and HS baseball is none of my business. It is between him and his coach.

i got really pissed off the two times I thought the coach mishandled situations with my son. My son told me to get over it. This was after he scolded me for not following my lessons from when I coached ... Don’t get distracted by the BS. It can only affect your play.

This discussion reminds me of the Casey Stengel quote -- "The secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided."  I suspect the same goes with parents lol.

2forU posted:

Expect the coach to do what he wants because he is in charge (this includes playing favorites, playing another coaches younger brother who plays in all games and strikes out 95% of the time, running extra polls instead of bunting practice because two players can't execute a bunt in a game, playing catchers that throw hard and that's it - no accuracy, no blocking, no framing)

 

95% of the time?!? Wow. So he's put the ball in play only once or twice this season? Seems dramatic.