Hip and midsection Explosion

Core strength is a big part of any good conditioning program. I am no expert either, however this just seems to make good common sense for any baseball player, especially pitchers. I believe Clemens once said it only takes his arm a couple of days to recover but the rest of his body needs the full 4 or 5 days between starts.

I concur with what Yankeelvr says. I'd also like to add that yes, the core is very important but it isn't the only thing. Explosive hip rotation will do very little if it isn't part of the overall, unfied whole. In other words, it has to be immaculately timed with respect to the stride, leg action and what happens with the upper torso. We all hear about the "kinetic chain" often and it's a good image. Throw in a weak link or one that is out of sync and you won't maximize the potential of that chain.

So, in a nutshell, yes, the core is important, vital even but it must be part of the whole.

Unless you are freakish like David Wells and can toe the mound out of shape (probably already had a beer or two) and pitch a good 7 innings you really need to have a strong core. Durring the winter work outs for my travel team our conditioning was based alot around the core. However watch the legs of those players who explode their hips and torso. Alot of that torque comes from their very strong legs. Clemmens work out rutine was probably one of the more vigerous out of people in the league, and has alot of leg work outs. Keep your arm fit and in shape, but build your legs and strengthen your core and you'll find great results especially late in the game.

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Originally posted by TPBulldogs35:
Just wondering do players and coaches here really really focus on this? I've been studying many different pitchers for awhile now and the harder throwers have this in common; every single one has amazing power from their hips and midsection. They absolutely explode through that section of their body and it shows. Throughout my years of baseball (9 going on 10 to be exact and I'm a sophmore) not one of my coaches has told me to really focus on this.

I believe the rotation of the hips ahead of the shoulders is a pitcher's primary source of power (I call it bottom-up power), and its one of the few things that I think Tom House has gotten right.

However, the key isn't that its explosive. The key is that its timed properly. The hips must open while the shoulders stay closed. This enables the muscles of the hips to powerfully pull the shoulders around.

Here are some examples of what this looks like, for people who don't know what we're talking about...










In each case notice that the belt buckle is facing home plate while the shoulders are still facing 3B (or 1B for the lefties).

First off, I am a fully qualified baseball coach for any player that needs help with his jump shot or crossover dribble...

I gotta say, with a pitcher/prospect son, this post is hugely informative to me. Nice job fellas helping me understand what a couple of coaches have told me about my son being closed in front and throwing across his body.

Thanks...

If you would like to see him, www.kirkporter.com and click on the videos link or recent photos...

CPLZ
Those are some impressive mechanics. More angles would be nice to see but, from what's in that video, he looks good!!

Notice how the plant foot is directly in front of the back foot. Not open or closed. Couple of these are great shots and show why powerfull legs are so important as well as good mechanics.

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Originally posted by CPLZ:
I gotta say, with a pitcher/prospect son, this post is hugely informative to me. Nice job fellas helping me understand what a couple of coaches have told me about my son being closed in front and throwing across his body.

Being closed in front and throwing across the body is a different issue than having an "explosive midsection" (or, as I prefer to describe it, good hip and shoulder separation and delayed shoulder rotation).

Roger,
Please help me here if you would be so kind...Did you view the video and what would your critique be?

Thanks in advance,
Chip

Chip,

I did review the video. But before I discuss that, let's clarify the terminology used in this thread.

You mentioned "being closed in front" - this could mean a couple things. It could mean that the pitcher is striding towards the throwing arm side of the target instead of directly at the target which would cause the pitcher to have to throw back across his body toward the target. Or, it could mean that the pitcher is simply keeping the front shoulder closed as long as he should. But this doesn't result in throwing across the body. Since the topic of throwing across the body was used in the same sentence as being closed, I'm assuming you (or your son's coaches) meant the former meaning of being closed.

I mentioned "hip and shoulder separation" and "delayed shoulder rotation". Hip and shoulder separation involves putting as much distance between the front hip and the back shoulder as one's flexibility allows. This stretches the core muscles in preparation for pulling the shoulders around as explosively as possible. You should check this right at the point the stride foot plants because shortly thereafter the shoulders start to rotate and separation starts to diminish.

Delayed shoulder rotation involves keeping the shoulders closed as long as possible. During the stride, the front leg/foot opens up and the hips also start to open up. Then the back foot turns over (laces down) allowing the hips to complete their rotation. Delaying shoulder rotation until the hip rotation is complete maximizes the force used to pull the shoulders around. Velocity comes from this hip and shoulder rotation. Delaying shoulder rotation also keep the ball hidden a bit longer and moves the release point closer to home plate (because the body continues to track forward while the shoulders are still closed) thus giving the batter less time to see the ball.

Regarding your son's video, it doesn't appear to me that your son strides to the closed side much, if at all. And, accordingly, it doesn't appear that he throws across his body. Unfortunately, the camera angle makes it difficult to tell for sure. A straight on view would be best for this particular issue. As for hip and shoulder separation and delayed shoulder rotation, I'd really need to see a side view (i.e. from 3B). If you can post such videos, I'd be happy to take a look at them. A format that can be displayed by Apple's Quicktime player would be great since that player makes it easy to step through a video frame by frame.

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You mentioned "being closed in front" - this could mean a couple things. It could mean that the pitcher is striding towards the throwing arm side of the target instead of directly at the target which would cause the pitcher to have to throw back across his body toward the target

RT good explanation. We were taught to draw a line from the middle of your post foot instep to the target. Your plant should land on or as close to the line without going over it. In a gym we used the BB lines to practice this. If your foot crosses over the line it was referred to as throwing accross your body. This meant that your hips were stopped from a smooth rotation by your thighs interfering with each other.
Having said that I know 90mph guys who do this but struggle with control.
The shoulder rotation is a different issue. I know many instructors who do not want your shoulders to rotate back too far but prefer your arm and shoulder to go straight back inline with your front shoulder. you can see from the photos that many great pitchers take their shoulders way back. So who is right ? Many blame shoulder ihjury on wrapping the shoulder too far back. I remember when my son was being fine tuned one year and the scout told him to get to a full load position and the scout placing his shoulder forward so it pointed straight back.

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Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
We were taught to draw a line from the middle of your post foot instep to the target. Your plant should land on or as close to the line without going over it. In a gym we used the BB lines to practice this. If your foot crosses over the line it was referred to as throwing accross your body. This meant that your hips were stopped from a smooth rotation by your thighs interfering with each other.

I agree that you're not fully utilizing your hip rotation if you do this. When striding straight toward the target, your hips rotate until they're squared up to the target. When striding closed, the hips don't get squared up to the target. This can certainly affect velocity but control is often the more significant problem.

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Having said that I know 90mph guys who do this but struggle with control.

The source of the control problems is this. Even though the lower body strode (is that a word?) offline from the target, the upper body still tries to get back online. The shoulders want to square up to the target at release. If the pitcher can make this happen strictly by adjusting the amount of shoulder rotation, then he might be ok. But what often happens is that the pitcher bends to the glove side at the waist to help get the shoulders back online. This bend represents an inappropriate late posture change that messes with the release point as well as movement on breaking pitches.

By the way, a lot of times this can be corrected or at least improved by simply changing the starting position on the rubber. The change is based on where the pitcher's drag line finishes.

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The shoulder rotation is a different issue. I know many instructors who do not want your shoulders to rotate back too far but prefer your arm and shoulder to go straight back inline with your front shoulder. you can see from the photos that many great pitchers take their shoulders way back. So who is right ? Many blame shoulder ihjury on wrapping the shoulder too far back. I remember when my son was being fine tuned one year and the scout told him to get to a full load position and the scout placing his shoulder forward so it pointed straight back.

You're right that many pitchers rotate the back shoulder beyond straight back. In Tom House's book, The Pitching Edge, there is a table showing the shoulder alignment for a number of the top pitchers and they all rotate the back shoulder beyond straight back. They do is partly because their flexibility allows it (in fact, requires it to maximize the stretch reflex in the core muscles thereby maximizing velocity?) and partly to adjust their timing. I'm not aware of many shoulder problems being attributed to this reverse rotation. In fact, part of what looks like reverse rotation is simply scap loading taking place and most agree that is a normal part of pitching. Ultimately, I think the amount of reverse rotation a pitcher has is part of his specific make-up. It's one characteristic that makes pitchers different from each other and there's nothing wrong with that. It's a non-teach to me.

Roger, I have enjoyed reading this post. I am curious about a point that you brought to light. To help with keeping the front shoulder closed longer, do you find it more effective to teach leading with the stride leg heel to keep a more linear approach to the target and keep the front shoulder closed longer or do you prefer the stride toe lead. My personal preference is the heel lead over the toe lead because of the tendency to open the front side to early. Just curious about your approach here.

CoachO
Am I getting this right? You've been exposed to instruction that leading with the stride foot toe is a good thing? Your comment about this opening the front side early is right on the money. I've never ran into someone who actually recommended the "toe lead".

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Originally posted by CoachO:
Roger, I have enjoyed reading this post. I am curious about a point that you brought to light. To help with keeping the front shoulder closed longer, do you find it more effective to teach leading with the stride leg heel to keep a more linear approach to the target and keep the front shoulder closed longer or do you prefer the stride toe lead. My personal preference is the heel lead over the toe lead because of the tendency to open the front side to early. Just curious about your approach here.

CoachO,

There are a number of causes for the shoulders opening up early. Early opening of the stride foot, leg and hips is one. I believe pulling the glove, dropping the glove, balance and posture problems, "staying back", etc. can also cause the shoulders to open up early. But, ultimately, the shoulders opening early is a timing problem. As such, the solution needs to be such that it corrects the pitcher's timing. There are two adjustments I normally have the pitcher make to correct this. The first is to make sure the pitcher gets the glove out front somewhere over the front foot and the arms into an equal and opposite position (where "equal and opposite" means only that the forearm-to-upper arm angle is the same for both arms). This position is held only momentarily at foot strike but it chews up some time and prevents the glove arm from doing something (e.g. pulling or dropping) that would prevent the shoulders from staying closed. The other adjustment is to get the pitcher into foot strike quicker. This leaves the pitcher with only enough time in his delivery to get the shoulders squared up to the target at release.

Note that to get into foot strike quicker, the pitcher needs to get the hips going sooner/faster while maintaining the same knee lift. The front leg will be forced to stride faster. A byproduct of this is that the pitcher may lengthen his stride as a result.

So, getting back to your question, I guess I don't really concern myself with the foot position - at least not until I've tried the two things I described above. When ever one part of the body appears to be too fast, many coaches tell a pitcher to "slow down", "stay back", "don't rush", etc. But, instead of making an adjustment to slow down one part of the body, I try to speed up the other part of the body so as not to lose overall momentum, explosiveness, etc.

I have been fascinated with this thread, and I truly enjoyed the exhibit photographs of famous pitchers and their hip and shoulder relationships.

My question is this. It seems to me that we seem to be talking about the shoulders getting perpendicular to the hips just prior to recoil to the plate. This suggests to me a real flexibility issue in the mid body.

What exercises would be recommended to increase flexibility of the trunk so as to permit maximum stretch, if you will, from hips facing the plate to shoulders being north south with the plate. You can see I have a hard time with terminology of open and closed.

I do completely understand and agree with the concept of the glove hand point to the plate and pull back as a part of the release mechanism of the shoulders and arm.

But what would be the best exercises to accomplish the ability to "twist" the shoulders from the trunk.

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Originally posted by SF SAM:
My question is this. It seems to me that we seem to be talking about the shoulders getting perpendicular to the hips just prior to recoil to the plate. This suggests to me a real flexibility issue in the mid body.

What exercises would be recommended to increase flexibility of the trunk so as to permit maximum stretch, if you will, from hips facing the plate to shoulders being north south with the plate. You can see I have a hard time with terminology of open and closed.

I have my players do a dynamic warm-up that also incorporates strength and flexibility work. For trunk flexibility, we do 3 different exercises:

(1) Shoulder twists - Stand with feet together and hands on hips. Rotate the shoulders alternately to the left and right as far as possible while keeping the hips still and pointing forward.

(2) Karaokes with arms up in a goal post position and shoulders twisting the opposite direction as the hips.

(3) Walking lunges (forward and backward) with a shoulder twist left and right for each lunge (arms in goal post position).

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I do completely understand and agree with the concept of the glove hand point to the plate and pull back as a part of the release mechanism of the shoulders and arm.

If you look at slow motion video clips of the top MLB pitchers, I think you will find that pointing the glove at the target is not universal. Some pitchers point the glove but others tuck it under the wrist and still others turn it thumb down/palm out. You will also notice that most pitchers do not pull the glove back - they stick the love somewhere out over the front foot and then move to the glove (although after release they may allow the glove to swing back).

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But what would be the best exercises to accomplish the ability to "twist" the shoulders from the trunk.

Don't know if what I have my players do are the best exercises but I don't think they're bad.