History of TX 5A Championships

One of our teams hasn't recruited all the good players yet!!!! working on it....

This ought to be interesting.

That is easy, it is because the Houston dad's are throwing batting practice and hitting fungo to their boy's instaed of posting on a message board.

Plano or Wylie will change this trend in 2008.

DadRinTX -- Houston is historically one of the strongest baseball areas in the country. We talk North Texas baseball in these here parts because the Houston folks hang out on another message board.

DFW has great respect for Houston baseball.

Good point nortexbb -- Plano West is just now taping into the rival talent.

quote:

Originally posted by Bring it:
That is easy, it is because the Houston dad's are throwing batting practice and hitting fungo to their boy's instaed of posting on a message board.

lol

Personally, I am doing my best to change this back to the north's advantage. Posting less and practicing every day with my little guy....lookout for the Class of 2020!

quote:

Originally posted by DadRinTX:
With all the talent in DFW, and all the select teams around, why hasn’t a DFW area school won it all in 5A for so long? And no, I’m not trying to start a fight, I really am curious.

Clemens
Pettite
Knoblauch

Houston players use steroids, that is why they win...

quote:

Originally posted by tychco:


Houston players use steroids, that is why they win...

OUCH!

quote:

Originally posted by tychco:

Clemens
Pettite
Knoblauch

Houston players use steroids, that is why they win...

Geez... I wasn't looking all the way back to the days those guys played. Not even sure their HS teams won it all.

For what it's worth, I can't say Ive seen or heard of any recruiting happening within our district either. But as with 'roids, one may never know I suppose.

Before this gets too heated....

Yes, Houston baseball is very, very good over the past years and always will be. There are some incredible players that come out of those areas. In the Dallas/Forth Worth Area there are many littler schools that, in some ways, "steal" the baseball talent from bigger schools. Take for instance the private schools. Plano Prestonwood, nationally ranked team last year, has many players from many areas. Imagine if some of these guys played for there respected public schools. It seems as if there are more schools and that the baseball talent is spread further in the area.

Dallas/Fort Worth has some amazing prospects that will obviously get drafted. Houston is the same way but it seems as if this talent is much more concentrated in certain areas in contrast to the spread out prospects in Dallas/Fort Worth.

Imagine this.....

Lets take the Metroplex.....
Split into 4-5 schools.....
Championships in MANY sports would start to flow in more along with baseball.

DallasTXwatch, I respectfully disagree with your premise. Plano East is the largest school in the state. Plano is in the top 5. Allen has one high school. Lovejoy will not impact the district for a few more yeats. There are numerous private schools in other areas of the state as well. Splitting a large metroplex into 4-5 schools would not occur in any other part of the country. There are so many factors in winning a state championship, including winning several coin tosses along the way.

DFW wins its share of state championships -- just not a particularly large number in baseball recently.

PD - yea, PESH has got that bowling state championship covered.

Cheap thats nothing, Arl. Martin won the cheerleading National Championship this year.

Oh and that was in the Small Varsity Division.

quote:

Originally posted by Panther Dad:
DallasTXwatch, I respectfully disagree with your premise. Plano East is the largest school in the state. Plano is in the top 5. Allen has one high school. Lovejoy will not impact the district for a few more yeats. There are numerous private schools in other areas of the state as well. Splitting a large metroplex into 4-5 schools would not occur in any other part of the country. There are so many factors in winning a state championship, including winning several coin tosses along the way.

DFW wins its share of state championships -- just not a particularly large number in baseball recently.

PD,

As always, you have a great point.I understand exactly where you are coming from on this one.I just got lost in trying to get across the point that some of these smaller schools disperse the talent throughout the area. It was a type of wishful thinking on my part that these smaller schools(Private Schools,1A-3A schools, even 4A...) might merge with these big 5A schools and concentrate the talent. I think you can agree with me that many more state championships would be won.

Hey, I think I'm just typing then thinking who knows....

Houston 5A is divided up between 10 districts and 82 schools. Houston 4A is divided up between 7 districts and 56 schools. Also there is no less than 10 private school programs pulling players here also. I would say we are as spread out as any.

Twenty six seasons of 5A play are on record and Houston has sent a team to the State Championship game twenty times winning sixteen 5A Championships. Four of those championships were won against another Houston area representative, “(84, 91, 98, 06). In 1984, Brazoswood defeated Cy-Fair 5-3, in 1991, Clear Creek defeated Klein Oak 8-2, in 1998, Klein defeated Elkins 2-0, and in 2006, The Woodlands defeated Katy 5-3. One could harkin back to the beginning of Baseball Championships in Texas, (1949) and find a Houston representative playing for the championship nineteen times from 1949 to 1981 and winning thirteen. That’s twenty nine out of fifty nine championships on record since 1949 and no less than a finalist thirty nine out of fifty nine. Add two more Houston vs Houston championship games and that brings the head to head total to six all time.

Since Class 5A was established in 1981, only 2 state championships have been won by D/FW area schools.

1990 - Duncanville
1993 - Arlington Martin

H5AB -- you've considered this question before, I'm sure....why do you think the Houston area has such an edge in baseball? If I'm not mistaken, the same "phenomenon" does not exist in football and basketball. Obviously, Houston is a larger metropolitan area from a population standpoint. Isn't it true that many schools place as much focus on baseball as on the oblog ball with the laces?

PD - you just nailed it!!!

I have come close to applying for jobs in the Houston area for that reason.

I dont have any data to either support or dispute the Football, Basketball issue but I do think that your point of "as much focus on baseball" has some merit. What I have found in the Houston area that differs from many parts of the state is you have Baseball Coaches that also coach football where as in other parts of the state it is much more common to have football coaches who also coach baseball. So yes, there is more focus on baseball starting at a very young age. With that said, I still dont know why DFW would lag behind in baseball as much. They have and abundance of talent with quality coaching available at the high school level so that situation is somewhat of a mystery to me.

2008 4A- McKinney Boyd

BBMan45 -- the topic wasn't a riddle and the answer isn't "2008 4A - McKinney Boyd".....but thanks for the meaningful post.

quote:

Obviously, Houston is a larger metropolitan area from a population standpoint. Isn't it true that many schools place as much focus on baseball as on the oblog ball with the laces?

I appreciate all the discussion. It appears I'm not the first to consider this question. H5AB, thanks for the additional background info.

I don't think the size difference between D-FW and H-town is enough to sway the game. As seen from the eyes of a guy originally from a very small town in the midwest, they are both huge.

I'm also not sure baseball gets that much more focus in schools around Houston. I do know that when I'm looking for the baseball field at ANY high school in Texas, I always find the football field, then go way out behind it somewhere.

I do suspect the fact that some schools have actual baseball coaches helps. It would be nice if those coaches could focus on baseball year round, but of course, they must spend the fall helping coach that other sport.

quote:

Originally posted by DallasTXwatch711:
Before this gets too heated....

Yes, Houston baseball is very, very good over the past years and always will be. There are some incredible players that come out of those areas. In the Dallas/Forth Worth Area there are many littler schools that, in some ways, "steal" the baseball talent from bigger schools. Take for instance the private schools. Plano Prestonwood, nationally ranked team last year, has many players from many areas. Imagine if some of these guys played for there respected public schools. It seems as if there are more schools and that the baseball talent is spread further in the area.

Dallas/Fort Worth has some amazing prospects that will obviously get drafted. Houston is the same way but it seems as if this talent is much more concentrated in certain areas in contrast to the spread out prospects in Dallas/Fort Worth.

Imagine this.....

Lets take the Metroplex.....
Split into 4-5 schools.....
Championships in MANY sports would start to flow in more along with baseball.

There are several good private school programs in Houston and the surrouding areas as well...so that's not a reason or really a difference between Houston and D/FW.

However, if someone can put their thumb on it, I'd love to find out. We need someone to bring a crown home to D/FW at the 5A level soon!

Population, 2006 estimate 3,886,207 Harris County
Population, 2006 estimate 2,345,815 Dallas County

Something in common with the south having better teams?

[QUOTE
Population, 2006 estimate 3,886,207 Harris County
Population, 2006 estimate 2,345,815 Dallas County
[/QUOTE]

Here is some info “From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:”

“Houston is the fourth-largest city in the United States of America and the largest city within the state of Texas. As of the 2006 U.S. Census estimate, the city has a population of 2.14 million within an area of 600 square miles (1,600 km²). Houston is the … economic center of the Houston–Sugar Land–Baytown metropolitan area—the sixth-largest metropolitan area in the U.S. with a population of more than 5.5 million.”

By comparison:

“According to the U.S. Census July 1, 2006 estimates, the metropolitan area has a population of 6 million. The Dallas–Fort Worth–Arlington MSA is the largest metropolitan area in Texas and the fourth-largest in the United States. The metroplex also encompasses 9,289 square miles (24,100 km²) of total area: 8,991 sq. mi. is land, while 298 sq. mi. is water, making it larger in area than the U.S. states of Rhode Island and Connecticut combined. It is also the 44th largest metropolitan area by population in the world.”

I don’t know the answer, but I think we can rule out the respective area populations.

quote:

Originally posted by DadRinTX:
[QUOTE] I do suspect the fact that some schools have actual baseball coaches helps. It would be nice if those coaches could focus on baseball year round, but of course, they must spend the fall helping coach that other sport.

Some coaches in the Houston area have the luxury of coaching only baseball so that might be another factor.

The same holds true here. There is no simple answer to this question. Maybe it's in the water.

Many(not all) areas of Houston have excellent youth baseball programs in place, where the kids learn how to play the game the right way from a very early age. I had to drive from the area where I live in order to have my son participate in the Cy Fair Sports Association program and now that he is in high school, he knows how to play the game and I tip my hat to CFSA. I look at some of his HS teammates, who are very talented, yet clueless when it comes to many aspects of the game. Is it possible that this has something to do with it?

Sluggo-

Good point on teaching the game the right way from early ages on... or even just in HS... just one aspect, I see a number of HIGH SCHOOL coaches (DFW) still teaching their kids to swing down on the ball (chopping wood), or swing level, cast arms and hands to hit the outside pitch, they tell them don't dip shoulders, squish the bug, keep the barrel above your hands, roll wrists at contact - and this sad list goes on and on... mechanically, the players in greater Houston are more sound.... fielding, hitting, pitching... of course there are tons of great athletes in DFW, but the average to below avaerage could be much better...

Legendary coach Rod Dedeaux (USC) was right when he said more players never reach their potential due to lack of proper instruction rather than lack of ability.... I see it every day...

When I look at the UIL 5A list is appears there are about 60 DFW schools and around 88 Houston schools. This is a rough count. But if there are really 20+ more schools in the Houston area that could have some bearing on the %'s. Right?

Beast-
without getting too in to it (i mean it is 3pm on a Friday)...

teach kids the proper way to get their hips to lead their hands in their swing (more torque which leads to +batspeed, stronger muscles firing first)

match the plane of their swing to the plane of the pitch - i mean why swing down at a ball that is already traveling down (the point those to paths meet is the only possible place for contact so with a downward swing you are looking at 4-7 inches?? - match plane you are looking at 2-3 feet... plus if you hit it right in the center and you are swinging down, where is the ball headed?? right where pitcher wants you to hit it!)...

and the proper way for the player to keep hands inside baseball (besides the circular hand path) the closer hands are to spine, the faster everything is traveling (conservation of angular momentum)

-swing level? how do you hit pitch at knees??

-cast hands to ball? hole in swing + bathead is slowing down as you get to point of impact (simple h.s. physics)

shoulders always dip (front up/back down) unless pitch is across letters... which means the barrel of bat will ALWAYS be below hands unless it is high fastball...

squish the bug?? please tell me no one teaches this... abdominals, thighs swing your bat, (plenty of video out there and Tivo to where you can see elite hitters actually having back foot/toes yanked off ground for split-second as hips explode in bat swing) everything else is along for the ride (through transfer of momentum and summation of smaller muscle groups - same way one pitches)

rolling wrists happends naturally well after contact (power V)

i will stop because i could easily be boring people who really do not care about hitting...

SANDY- i don't think those extra school in houston make a difference too much, as they all start playing each other in round 1 of playoffs anyway... top two would typically meet in regional champioship anyways...

DadRinTX

I understand your concerns and hope the TRADITION ends! Our Green Friends to the north had to see an end to a very long Tradition in football this year.

I am a NATIVE Texan and very proud of the talent all over the great state!

I don't have any Championship list to pull up but I assure you it will be a very interesting year in 5-5A and 9-5A.