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R1 and R2 - batter hits ground ball between SS/3B. SS fields ball and throws to 2B. R1 beat throw and was safe at 2B. The SS did not make an error but seemed to be slow getting ball out of his glove (but no bobble of ball - maybe had hard time getting good grip - don't really know).

 

I ruled a hit - no errors - everyone safe. Team scorekeeper ruled it a FC? I was under impression you can not assume SS would have thrown out batter at 1B if there was no out at 2B. Fact of the matter - our R1 is really fast - batter was avg speed  - but do you take that into account?  

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Unfortunately, you can not be more right. The stats listed by the team scorekeeper and the actual stats are quite different. I noticed after the 3rd or 4th game that stats were not correct  - which is why there are a few of us who keep score at all the games now. There is without a doubt favorites being played  - games that certain players go 0 for - that are not even being entered but you can bet when they have good games - all the stats are there.

If I am going to score - I want to do it correctly. If the play should be a FC - I will mark it as FC. I have scored games for years - this was a play I needed help in scoring - and from some of the responses - it seems its still a gray area.

 

I apologize for letting this converstation get off topic - I don't want to hijack the thread on a personal vendetta against the team scorekeeper.

 

 

Originally Posted by jhelbling:

R1 and R2 - batter hits ground ball between SS/3B. SS fields ball and throws to 2B. R1 beat throw and was safe at 2B. The SS did not make an error but seemed to be slow getting ball out of his glove (but no bobble of ball - maybe had hard time getting good grip - don't really know).

 

Without further description, it is understandable that this came down to judgement.  If the ball was hit to the hole, this is usually a tough/close play, depending on how far in the hole, where ss is playing, how hard it was hit, etc.  It comes down to whether SS should have made the play with ordinary effort.  Also, if SS could have made the play at first with ordinary effort but decided to try force at 2b, this would also be scored FC in my book. 

This can be one of those tricky scenarios and certainly not one I would use as an example of your other issues with team SK.  

 

I ruled a hit - no errors - everyone safe. Team scorekeeper ruled it a FC? I was under impression you can not assume SS would have thrown out batter at 1B if there was no out at 2B. 

 

I don't believe this is true.  If the play is a fairly routine ground ball where it would be a groundout with ordinary effort if no R1, I don't see how you could rule that a hit.  This is one instance where I'll be curious to see Stats or another SK geek chime in, though.  I tend to use common sense as my guide perhaps more than the deep levels of SK rules and guidelines.

 

PS - just re-read that SS only took 3-4 steps and got in front of the ball.  That would steer me more toward FC.

 

Last edited by cabbagedad

Here's the rule:

 

(6) a fielder unsuccessfully attempts to put out a preceding runner and, in the official scorer's judgment, the batter-runner would not have been put out at first base by ordinary effort.
Rule 10.05(a) Comment: In applying Rule 10.05(a), the official scorer shall always give the batter the benefit of the doubt. A safe course for the official scorer to follow is to score a hit when exceptionally good fielding of a ball fails to result in a putout.
(b) The official scorer shall not credit a base hit when a:
(1) runner is forced out by a batted ball, or would have been forced out except for a fielding error;
(2) batter apparently hits safely and a runner who is forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner fails to touch the first base to which such runner is advancing and is called out on appeal. The official scorer shall charge the batter with a time at bat but no hit;
(3) pitcher, the catcher or any infielder handles a batted ball and puts out a preceding runner who is attempting to advance one base or to return to his original base, or would have put out such runner with ordinary effort except for a fielding error. The official scorer shall charge the batter with a time at bat but no hit;
(4) fielder fails in an attempt to put out a preceding runner and, in the scorer's judgment, the batter-runner could have been put out at first base; or
Rule 10.05(b) Comment: Rule 10.05(b) shall not apply if the fielder merely looks toward or feints toward another base before attempting to make the putout at first base.
(5) runner is called out for interference with a fielder attempting to field a batted ball, unless in the scorer's judgment the batter-runner would have been safe had the interference not occurred.

 

So, if the scorer judges that, when the attempt to put out the preceding runner is unsuccessful (ie, the runner is safe), the batter would have been safe if the play was made to first, then it can be scored a hit. If, in the scorers judgement, the batter would have been out if the play had been made there, it would be scored a fielders choice. 

 

It's a judgement call. You really had to be there, but it's not automatically a FC when the runner is safe just because the play was made at 2nd rather than 1st. 

 

Hope this helps some. 

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