Hitting approach and theory.

With less than two strikes, if it's in your wheelhouse take a swing. With two stikes if it's in the ump's strike zone swing to hit it if you think you can do something with it, swing to foul it if you can't do something useful with it, leave it alone if you believe it's a ball.

Does your wheelhouse change on 3-1 and 2-0 counts? Do you narrow it? I've always thought that you should be sitting deadred on certain counts. 

On a Full count, are you shortening up or swinging full throttle?

HS varsity.  Medium-small school. 

We nurture a "love to hit" philosophy.  Allow for individual strengths, hitter types and preferences but hold to some common guidelines.  Help the hitter identify and visualize his specific hot zone.  Make it big enough that he can think and be aggressive but small enough that he can consistently drive balls thrown there.  Have an aggressive "my zone" approach with less than 2-strikes, then with two, a broader zone, shorter swing "gear FB and adjust, get the bat on the ball" approach.  We may make exception with true power guys.  I don't like taking the first pitch as most pitchers are trying to throw first pitch FB's and many are heart of the plate.  However, if a hitter is more comfortable seeing one, we will allow.  The preference is to get them to see what they need on deck and in the dugout so they are comfortable attacking that first pitch FB.  We teach most hitters to be good at driving outside pitches oppo well as good pitchers will work away most often.  If a hitter is more effective as a pure pull guy, we'll get him on top of the plate.  Certainly, we encourage look red early and ahead in the count.  They need to be drooling at 2-0, 3-1.  We get a few that are able to guess well with breaking balls and hit them well, so we'll allow for them to attack those early (usually smart 3-4 hitters who know they'll be pitched backwards).  We teach proper balance to allow hitters to gear FB and adjust to drive off-speed.  Some hitters are better at just thinking zone and not thinking pitch type.  We teach to study the P and pick up patterns, tendancies, locations, movement.

In a short 7 inning HS game, I think it is a mistake to take hitters out of their comfort zone by trying to have them work the count to wear down a P.  If a P is good enough to warrant that consideration, he is usually good enough to see that and throw strikes early to get ahead and put your hitters in a bigger hole.  That said, definitely identify what pitches he wants your hitters to chase and stay off of those.  Identifying umpire strike zones is also important.

I think full count approach depends on hitter and game situation.

I'm a huge advocate of situational hitting.  Whatever hitting approach might be taken is very dependent on the game situation and so. . . it should change throughout the game.

Drew,

I like the idea of hitting fastballs as you mentioned.  However, my teams practiced situational hitting (daily) and we covered all types of scenarios.  Still, we tried to instill in my hitters that they should never be afraid of hitting with 2 strikes. 

So Here are some of the things we discussed:

• What is the history of the pitcher and program.  Some programs pitch "backwards" and so when you are in fastball counts, they throw off speed. We want to make our hitters aware of that.  Some start 3,4, and 5 off with curveballs because hitters are told to take the breaking ball and hit fastballs.  So, if this was the case, I'd mention to my players that we were "hitting backwards."  What I meant by that is that if we have a runner on, look for that first pitch curve and drive it to right. 
• We always tried to have a "plan" per at bat.  For some of my bigs , that meant that they were going to see a first pitch fastball away/black of the plate.  Most coaches will tell the hitter to take that one.  We practiced that one.  We played a team in the Sectional Championship game that had 3 pitchers who could get it up there 90+.  All 3 eventually got drafted.  We looked first pitch fastball away and lived in the right center power gap.  That team was 32 -2 when we played them.  We short-gamed them. 
• If we don't know a history of the team, then we look for a specific pitch in a specific area.  My players were taught game situations and so knew where we wanted to look.  If the ball was not there, let it go regardless of strike or ball. 
• Drew, all teams/coaches pitch in patterns.  Teach your players to talk among themselves and recognize the patterns that they are being thrown.  Some of my players kept notebooks on teams/pitchers.  What was funny is that I got so much credit for stealing signs from area coaches.  Didn't have to do that.  We had a book on how they all thought. 

Well, I know this might be confusing but this is what we did.  If you have effective BP, you have to have situational hitting.  I guess there is a place for just swinging but not in my program.  That can be done in a cage.  I gave my players five to get a feel for that day and then, I threw to them like they were in a game. We filmed all of that and so my assistant coach was tremendous at film work and would breakdown what they did.  Often he did that before they stepped in again against me. 

My opinion- there are two counts. Counts with two strikes, and counts with less than two strikes. With less than two strikes, always look to mash. With two strikes you have to be more defensive on the margins. I think it's a simple approach, especially for younger hitters.

For a left handed batter. With less than two strikes, fastballs middle to middle in and look to drive it in the gap or pull hard.

Any curves or fastballs that are middle out are to be left alone with less than two strikes. With two strikes, you can then hit a curve or a fastball that is middle out.

Obviously my approach is all wrong, as all coaches believe in hitting to the opposite field, letting the ball travel, and preach this relentlessly. I'm not sure this applies at all to a lefty as with a runner on 1st, as you have a big natural gap to pull the ball with the runner being held. And with a runner on 2nd, you'll be hitting behind the runner when you pull.

In my mind, lefties should only take the approach of going to the opposite field is when they have two strikes or if it has become obvious that the pitcher is going to live on the outer part of the plate and the ump is giving it. Otherwise lefties SHOULD pull the ball.

Again, I must be wrong because all coaches seem to think otherwise.

My son bats LH and almost never had to go oppo. Until he started hitting into the shift. So, he worked with his batting instructor and worked on going to LF when facing a shift. He can do so, but not with power.

While I agree that a lefty should be able to hit opposite, I don't believe it should be the priority approach. In fact, against a shift, showing bunt should be enough to remedy the defense. If not, lay the bunt down.

Brian McCann with his slow wheels uses the bunt to get rid of the shift.

1. see the ball

2. Hit it.

a little levity to keep everybody loose

Will, you left out run.  Well, that isn't hitting so you're good to go.

... and go to Many's and have a big steak

Always taught players that every pitch is their pitch until it is not. It's much easier to stop a swing than it is to start. If they're keeping upper body weight back, it is much easier to hit offspeed. If mechanics need work, then they'll need to guess at pitches and worry about the count. "Full head = empty bat, empty head = full bat." Read the latest SI article on why Pujols, Bonds, et al couldn't hit Jennie Finch and read between the lines.

CoachB25,

I read and reread that post and have to say I can’t find fault with any of the theory mentioned, but you know me, I’m always lookin’ for proof. So, do you measure offensive results relative to counts, and if so, would you elaborate?

What I find, at least with HSB, is that unlike MLB where not only are the pitch types known, but so are accurate locations and loads of historical data, very very few teams track what they’ve charted for their pitchers and integrate it with what’s taken place in the count. As I said, I’m always lookin’ for ways to prove what seems to be logical, based on baseball dogma so I can incorporate it into what I do as a scorer/statistician.

Hey, how have you been?  Hope your summer is going well.  You know that I'm not nearly as good at that stuff as you are.  We track all pitches both that we throw and that are thrown at the hitters.  That gives us an idea of how the opposing coach thinks.  You know that the monkey wrench in all of that is when the catcher calls it because individuals like a HS catcher are not as set in their ways as a HS coach.  Those charts also tell us how a team got them out.  So, we review that stuff with each hitter and let them know what's up when we play teams.  We then gear BP for that.  Those BP stories are legendary in these parts because of how intense I got when throwing it and how disciplined I expected my hitters to be.  I then kept charts from year to year to see if trends continued.  For example, how often did they throw a first pitch curve the first time around to the #3 hitter?  I liked to run and hit instead of hit and run.  So, how often did they pitch out in run and hit counts?  I can't say that I totaled all of this information.  Rather, I looked over years of the info and then presented players with what had been done to them.  Somewhere along the line, we seemed to have success and some pretty good plans. 

I want to say this again.  I was able to do what I did because I had great players who bought in to the madness that was playing ball for me.  Also, I had exceptional assistant coaches all through my program.  My Varsity Assistant was second to none and is now a very successful head coach of this program. 

Did you throw from the Mound?

Not from the game mound.  We had/have the rolling mounds.  I rolled one in and threw from around 55 feet.  I could throw a few hours from there each day.  I have a better than average curve.  Very good slider. OK change.  From there my FB was decent given fatigue over time. 

We had 3 guys in a hitting group.  Behind the rolling backstop, we had tee work while they waited to rotate in.  We had runners on base practicing base-running as I threw.  They were given the situations the hitter was working of and acted as if a game.  If I threw a pitch and a ball was not hit, other coaches hit a ball and infielders worked on whatever was outlined in the practice plan.  Meanwhile, 2 outfielders were shagging  while others were catching fungoes on the side from other coaches.  At the same time we had the bullpen pitchers throw in the pen and hitters were out in our cages.  It was a thing of beauty to see. 

Originally Posted by CoachB25:

Hey, how have you been?  Hope your summer is going well. 

Been fine. I just keep putting one foot in front of the other and hope I don’t run into anything. Actually the summer’s been somewhat boring. I’m reduced to watching ML games until fall ball starts, and you know how I hate that!

You know that I'm not nearly as good at that stuff as you are.  We track all pitches both that we throw and that are thrown at the hitters.  That gives us an idea of how the opposing coach thinks.  You know that the monkey wrench in all of that is when the catcher calls it because individuals like a HS catcher are not as set in their ways as a HS coach.  Those charts also tell us how a team got them out.  So, we review that stuff with each hitter and let them know what's up when we play teams.  We then gear BP for that.  Those BP stories are legendary in these parts because of how intense I got when throwing it and how disciplined I expected my hitters to be.  I then kept charts from year to year to see if trends continued.  For example, how often did they throw a first pitch curve the first time around to the #3 hitter?  I liked to run and hit instead of hit and run.  So, how often did they pitch out in run and hit counts?  I can't say that I totaled all of this information.  Rather, I looked over years of the info and then presented players with what had been done to them.  Somewhere along the line, we seemed to have success and some pretty good plans. 

Really? That’s a lot of information to gather! I have a pretty good idea how to do that, but it might help some folks to hear how you do it. While most folks are interested in the mechanics of the various baseball playing skills and others are interested in the umpiring mechanics, I’m really interested in the mechanics of how various programs go about gathering, storing, and presenting the various data they use for analysis. Too many people believe its only a matter of marking something down on paper, but that’s only the very 1^st part of something that gets very complicated and can take up lots of time.

I want to say this again.  I was able to do what I did because I had great players who bought in to the madness that was playing ball for me.  Also, I had exceptional assistant coaches all through my program.  My Varsity Assistant was second to none and is now a very successful head coach of this program. 

Anyone who’s ignorant enough to believe s/he can cause success on his/her own is doomed to be ultimately very disappointed. Unfortunately they’re out there though.

I take a lot of stuff from my own experiences and a lot of stuff from Steve Springer's qualityatbats cd. First off it's know the situation. Then know the pitcher. If this is a guy that's pumping gas then we're going to be more aggressive and try to attack a fastball over the plate and not get behind in the count. On the opposite end if this guy is a softer thrower and I know I can put good wood on a ball, I'll be more patient and look for something in a power area until I get two strikes. Next thing, always know the count. 1-0, 2-0 runners on, we have to be looking fastball to drive. If a pitcher shakes off behind in the count gear up for a fastball(Springer). Try to hit one pitch (Springer). Don't sit there 0-0 and just because something comes over the plate feel like you need to swing. Most likely you're going to put bad contact on it and waste an at bat. Now if you're hunting fastball inside on 0-0 and you get it, by all means rip it. That's pretty much it, a lot of credit for that goes to Steve Springer. I recommend his cd/dvd. If anyone wants to talk approaches and hitting pm me. 

Jefftso,

I remember sitting in on a “teaching” session between a very successful coach and some of his pitchers, and he told his pitchers to occasionally give a fake shake off of a pitch just to screw with the batter because of the idea you’re advocating. My son used to do it in HS, and our HS coach actually calls for fake shakes when he sends in pitches. Granted, pitchers that are “average” just generally go by the numbers and don’t think much out of the box and Springer’s idea will work. But that idea sure assumes pitchers are pretty stupid.

I heard a DI asst. coach, who is a hitting instructor, give his theory during a camp. He said to always look to hit opposite field because good pitchers can hit the outside corner consistently and throw pitches that break away from the hitter. And that good hitters should be able to react to mistakes thrown over the middle or the inside half and pull the ball hard.

So his theory was "look away, but react in".

Stats,

Well you better have a real solid curve and change and such if you're going to be throwing other stuff behind in the count. 

jefftso,

Let me ask you a couple questions to try to make sure we’re speaking the same language.

1. There are 12 possible counts a pitch can be thrown in. 00,01,02,10,11,12,20,21,22,30,31,32. Which of those counts do you believe the pitcher BEHIND?

2. Of the different groups of pitches, fastballs, slow big breaking pitches, fast sharp breaking pitches, off speed pitches, and specialty pitches, at the ML level, which is the only level there’s any accurate data on, do you know what pitches are being thrown in counts? By the simple logic that most pitchers throw a greater percentage of fastballs than all other pitch types combined, its likely accurate to assume any pitch will be a FB and be right more often than not. But have you ever actually studied what’s being thrown in what count to see? That’s the only way to really know if Springer’s theory about shakes is correct.

Now I don’t doubt that in amateur baseball pitchers will be more likely to throw a FB if they want to be sure as possible if the batter doesn’t swing the ball will be a strike, but I believe making generic statements assuming all pitchers will act generally the same way is doing a huge disservice to everyone.  

I like the stats analysis. I'm talking for the most part 2-0 and 3-1 counts. Most of my theory is educated guessing with hitting. There's nothing definite about what I said. But it's guidelines have led the percentages to being in my favor when I hit. Is it always right, no, but then again baseball is a game of luck and sometimes numbers go right out the window in this game. 

This isn't exactly under the category of theory of hitting, but it might be useful to dads of young players.

All through youth ball, those years that I helped out with the my son's teams, we did a batting cage drill that helped develop plate discipline and strike zone judgment. We called it "the game."

The hitter could stay in the cage for as many pitches as he could, as long as he 1)swung if the pitch was a strike, and 2) did not swing if the pitch was a ball.

The goal was to stay in for the most pitches. The kids could swing and miss and stay in the cage, as long as it was a strike. And if he swung at a ball, he was out.

It really taught young players the mindset of taking pitches out of the zone. I would not argue for generalizing the flip side of this - always swinging at a ball in the zone. There are a lot of pitched strikes that are not good balls to swing at.

But for young hitters, if you can just teach them not to swing at balls out of the zone, they will have a head start on being successful.

It worked for my son. His BB/K ratio in high school was 5:1, in college it was 9:7, and in his first year as a pro it is still better than 1:1

jefftso,

What stats analysis are you talking about?

If you’re talking about 2-0 and 3-1 counts, then that’s what you should say. What you said gave me the impression you were talking about anytime the pitcher was “behind” in the count.

There’s nothing at all wrong about guessing what pitch is gonna be thrown, but there certainly a lot more to it than what the count is. But something you said makes me ask this. How do you figure the percentages, and what’s the limit for them being in your favor?

Its true that there’s certainly a great amount of luck in baseball, but its also true that a person can do things to create their own luck too. Because of that, the numbers ALWAYS mean something.

Rob,

Things like that are definitely part of the total experience and last a lifetime because they’re one of the fundamentals that’s constantly being adjusted and improved. I love to see “games” being played within the game because it helps keep things competitive while retaining the fun aspect of the game.

When I read those stats, of course the 1^st thing I did was look at the numbers I have to see how they compare. Then it dawned on me that BB/K ratio isn’t really a stat that tells much without a lot of other information. FI, a player could have a high BB:K ratio but a very poor BABIP.

Don’t get me wrong, I think a batter walking more than he K’s is great, but then again I think a K is highest degree of hitter failure there is.

No, BB/K ratio doesn't reveal all that much, but it is a good measure of plate discipline and patience. It combines both walk% and strikeout% - both of which are important, although certainly not comprehensive, measures of hitting effectiveness.

"You can't walk off the island"

My son told that line to his first college coach who complained to him that he wasn't taking enough pitches.  It turned out my son was "situational hitting", the situation was he wasn't playing much and didn't think taking a walk would move him up the depth charts

At the lower levels I would be concerned about holding back a kid with talent by telling him to take the 1st pitch or strike etc. and confusing him with too much pro style hitting strategy.   If the kid has next level talent at the HS level you work with him to identify pitches to put a good swing on, other kids on the team (without the  talent) is a different story.  I really hate to see a HS teams best hiter take a fat first pitch strike with runners on because his team is behind and eventually walk leaving it up to the next batter who can't hit to drive in the runs or collect another walk..

Believe you are a good hitter.

Put your work in.  Tee, front toss, BP.

Do not look at your numbers. 

Attack the inside part of the ball.

But can you walk on to the 25 man?

With the A's.

Stats,

I don't do percentages and no I do not sit there and research pitchers. I study them the day of a game when they're in front of me and what their tendencies are. I agree percentages have something to do with it, but it all comes down to seeing and reacting and having a good swing. At the end of the day you still have to hit the ball being pitched. 

Yes, if that’s all it’s used for, I’m gonna guess it’s as good or better as any other metric for judging patience the only looks at 2 factors. But I’m not so sure it’s indicative of hitting “effectiveness”. But then again, “effectiveness” is totally subjective and dependent on the person looking.  

You don't think strikeout % and BB% are a partial measure of hitting effectiveness?

Choose between two players with the exact same batting average and power numbers, one has a 25% strikeout and 4% BB, the other has 10% strikeout and 10% walk. Which is a more effective hitter? I don't think that's a subjective question.

CollegeParentNoMore,

You make a very important point in that the level means so much to the perspective.

Like you, it really distresses me to see hitters passing on pitches they could hit, trying to build a pitcher’s pitch count, or mostly looking to see if they can draw a walk. To me its a bass ackwards approach that isn’t fun and doesn’t teach the hitter a great deal about hitting. But again, its very level dependent.

Why is looking at numbers something that will hurt a hitter? I can see not being obsessive about stats, but they can help as well as hurt.