Hitting distance increase

My son is 8. We've been practicing for a year, 5 days a week 200 balls BP With a wood bat length to weight ratio of 0. It's a 29 inches rawlings YMA262. he started with a -3 bat. first 2 months it would reach 2nd base and after 6 months it went farther and finally hit a plateau. No matter how he swung the bat, it never goes far. for the past 2 months, was tee work hopefully improving his bat speed. He hit a home run with the wood bat couple of times this spring game. I believe he's going to improve and get stronger in the coming year. I believe  using wood bat in games and practice makes him stronger.

Oh, this should be fun.  Just wish it weren't the weekend.

I was thinking the same thing. Then I saw your post and snorted coffee up my nose. I'll only start with you can't evaluate anything for recruiting with a non BBCOR bat. Develop bat speed. Hit hard line drives gap to gap. 

I did a similar experiment with my 9 year old son, although we typically go 6 days a week.  I was stymied by the fact that he also seemed to have hit the distance wall.  Fortunately, I videotape everything and realized that the average velocity of my pitches had decreased by 3.792% over the past two months.  I also realized that the mass of the balls that we were using had changed by 1.45%.  Finally, I detected a slight change in the average launch angle when my son made contact.  These factors together accounted for the distance plateau. I am now starting my own long toss program and am considering some band work as well.  I think if I can increase my velocity, my son should experience some additional increase in hitting distance.  I have also instructed my son to increase the pronation of his wrists anywhere from 4-6%.  This should get us back on target to crack the 300 foot barrier
by the time he reaches age 13.

I'm not sure exactly what the question is, or what the answers have been , but it's a good idea to go to a field and see how far you can hit the ball.  Then try to hit it further.

And this was your problem.  If you had properly realized the talent your son had following his first tee ball season, you would have removed him from school and concentrated solely on baseball for 7 days a week, 8 hours a day.  Unfortunately, and I'm sorry to have to say this, but since you didn't your son's baseball career is doomed at 9 years old.  Sign him up for lacrosse immediately.

We have dads of eight and nine year olds discussing improving hitting distance in the recruiting forum. Am I missing something? It's probably wise to wait until post puberty to consider recruiting.

I don't know what to make of this. This is not a serious discussion right?

I have a feeling the OP's question and the first reply are.  After that it's been free-wheeling.

7 days a week, I take a group of 7 year old studs down to a vacant lot across from a Subway restaurant.  We fill a bucket full of baseballs with our lunch orders written on them and take BP.  Any kid who doesn't knock one across the road and through the Subway window doesn't eat that day.  Very focused hitting groups. Subway inc has asked us to stop... But we've threatened to sue for false advertising. 

I wouldn't start them on steroids until they are 12.

MDS1 - how do you expect your son improve? he is only hitting 200 balls 6 days a week? where is the dedication? you are giving away 15% of his childhood baseball season!

When my son was 8 he was paying our 17 year old neighbor kid $400/week to come to the field down the street and pitch to him....normally 6 days/week for 3-4 hours for the entire summer.  He made the money from a lemonade stand he set up and paid another neighbor kid to run...as he didn't have time being at the field so much.  Quite the little entrepreneur.  An 8 year old facing 78-80mph pitching 6 days/week for 6 months will really improve his hitting...and man, if he made solid contact, he was putting them right out to the 150' sign in center field.  If only we would have been able to keep paying that kind of money for the past 8 years, I'm thinking my son would be hitting Bryce Harper type bombs all over the place...but unfortunatly the town shut down the lemonade stand (permits, health issues, etc)....and car payments, tuition for my daughter, insurance, etc ended up in the way and we had to fire the neighbor kid.  The kid was crushed....sold his Corvette, his girlfriend(s) all dumped him and  and ended up losing the lease on his townhouse and moving back into his parents house for a year til he finished HS....it was a tough time for him, but knowing that it helped my son so it was all worth it.

Buckeye, THAT is hilarious!!

I knew y'all wouldn't disappoint.

Girrardpp69 - Welcome to the site.  So, obviously, what everyone is saying is you are  taking things way too seriously at this stage with an 8 year old.  Let him be 8 and have fun.  It's awesome that you can spend so much time with him.  Maybe mix it up and do some other fun 8 y.o. things with him.  What will make him stronger, largely, is getting older.  Don't try to hurry up and get past the years that you are ultimately going to wish you had back.

If you are going to try and tell me it is him that is driving the five-day hitting thing, it still doesn't matter.  Encourage him to do lots of different stuff and if he keeps coming back to baseball over the years, then you'll know he has true passion and will appreciate it all the more.  Keep in mind that no matter what your dream is for him or what he says his dream is now, there is a distinct possibility that will be different in two years, five years, ten years (girls, injuries, other sports, outside interests, burnout from being pushed, etc).  His world is wide open.  Why narrow it before you have to?

I hope you hang around.  There is lots of great info offered up from those who have been down the path and made worse mistakes before you.

Tiny Tots Baseball Academy

Extra graham crackers to those who can hit the ball over their teammate's playpen!

cabbagedad is one of many who have "been there".  I think most all who have been through these things would agree with what he posted.

When I was 9 years old there was a big, very big, boy that would hit home runs farther than anyone in our league.  At that level he was a legend of sorts.  8 years later he no longer played Baseball. In the meantime a bunch of the little guys that couldn't hit it past the infield, when they were 9, were hitting them out of the minor league stadium in town when they were 17.

At 8 years old you can see some natural talent at times.  Hand eye coordination, natural throwing motion, etc.  However there is so much more that you can't see until they grow up.  One of those things is how far they will be able to hit a baseball. Another is how hard they will be able to throw a baseball. 

Also, baseball should never be a job, until at actually becomes one. Fun is the name of the game!  Not saying what is taking place isn't a lot of fun. Working on things can be fun, but make sure to go fishing or something, too.

I had a bad feeling this was going to happen when I posted this . I'm  a slow learner, please be patient with me. They should put a warning on the front of the page hitting,travel,and pre HS posts beware. I posted this because I am nervous about HS ball. Like I said you have to hit if you don't  throw hard . My son will be 14 soon ( hopefully he grows for a while longer) . With his rocket launcher he hit about 350-360 BBCOR 320.When you hit enough balls you get an idea of what you can do . Sorry no radar guns to throw to. Of course there are a lot of variables to take into account .But' there are  probably gains that can be projected also.Like PGStaff mentioned a lot of young studs disappear over the years. I'm hoping my son doesn't end up being one of those kids . You never know I guess he has a chance at throwing 90 some day . For you 8&9 year olds keep up the good work . Hopefully you guys don't mind if I keep throwing Topics at  the wall to see what sticks .

At eight years old if you want to see your son hit the ball further, have him hit the ball, chase it down, pick it up and hit it again.

HS coach will likely discourage fly balls. Focus on consistent hard contact.

Hueysdad, you do know it wasn't your post that caused the reaction, right?  You actually posed an interesting question that just got sidetracked a bit.  If your son is 13 and reaching 320, power will not be a concern.  Just as with pitching, there is no formula.  He just needs to keep working on the constant process of fine tuning mechanics, getting stronger and developing a sound mental approach to hitting.  Oh, AND having fun!

I guess I've not really thought about measuring hitting power in this way.  I think of bat speed as the more meaningful metric.  Distance gets into backspin, pitch velo, quality of contact, pitch movement, wind/humidity/temp.  Total distance seems more useful in measuring golf shots and maybe slow pitch softball, with baseball... Too many variables that have nothing to do with the swing itself. You can get bat speed norms for HS, various college levels, and pros to gauge your hitter's relative progress and how he compares.

Well, since I might have helped to derail the initial thread, I'll try and be serious for a few moments.

No matter how gifted one might be from an athletic or academic standpoint, the odds are astronomical that there is someone else in the universe even more gifted.  Instead
of worrying what will happen when you finally encounter that person(s), concentrate about what you can do.  If you can't throw the ball 90+, learn how to paint the corners and change speeds.  If you can't hit the ball further than 320 feet right now, get the most out of those 320 feet by being able to spray the ball to all fields.  If you are an outfielder who can't run a 6.7 except when running to the toilet when diarrhea strikes,  learn how to anticipate and see the ball better off the bat.

Take it from someone who has been told by numerous people that he is likely to
drop dead at his own wake, enjoy the process instead of worrying about hitting
the wall.

Distance matters, but bat speed is key I think.

Just because the dad who took it captured it like this, ck this out.

hmmm... I thought you guys were kidding.

If we're talking for realsies now, there is no way that bat speed is more important than distance. (I know this is not the hitting forum, but come on man)

You can have great bat speed, and have bat speed that's too late, or hit the ball with the wrong swing plane, or hit the ball into the ground, or just plain can't square it up.

Distance is the result of good bat speed, good swing plane, etc.

Go for the fence kid.

Well, I sincerely learned a lot from your post and feel the tremendous love you have for your son.  I would only suggest that you not feel the need to "hide behind the bleachers" when he fails.  No matter how much you do to protect him and prepare him, it won't always be a spectacular performance.  Not in baseball or anything else.  We all have our struggles, bad days and failures.  Make sure he knows that you feel the same love and pride in him regardless of success or failure.  And there will be times when the best thing you can do is step back and let him learn things on his own out from under dad's protective umbrella.

And, still... remember he is eight.

Been reading this thread and enjoying the discussion!  Have to admit I still dont know much about the types of bats, etc. (trying to cure that now), my son went to his first baseball showcase ever this past weekend (PG Sunshine East in Vineland). I did note a couple of weeks ago that wood bats were required for the event. Son has been using a favorite metal BBCOR (?)bat, metal is all he's used to this point. So, dad took him over to Dick's shopped for a good wood one the weekend before, and took him to local batting cages to get used to it, as much as possible, in the fast ball cage. First several times, son said something unrepeatable about his performance, but by weekend he was hitting much better. Good thing he got the time in with it.

   PG Staff, have to admit, even with the 2 venue changes before the event, and a rough start for son, he apparently played the game of his life 1st day. Was moved to his 2nd choice position since player slotted for it wasnt there, but put in a ferocious 10-inning game, culminating in catching a hard throw bare-handed as it went too wide for his gloved hand to reach it. Day 2 same level of play.

   He's never played on a travel team and til now has been unknown. But after this, his first exposure, he was contacted by a D2 the next day. We thought he had talent, but reassuring to know it's not all our imagination.

   There's a long way to go yet this summer, we'll do our best to get him in front of the right audience, and to remember this is his gig. But we'll make sure to enjoy the ride, as all say.

   And he's 17 (not 8) so hopefully it's not premature...

Power often just comes all of the sudden. It isn't as incremental as pitching speed. My own son just turned 14 in April. he has always been a big kid and hit the ball hard, but not a home run hitter. A lot of line drive doubles, hard singles, etc. However, this year, something has just clicked. I think I know what it is. he did grow a litle since last year, and I'm sure that has something to do with it, however, some of it is in his head.

We moved from Denver to a small town over the winter. He is now playing Babe Ruth baseball. It's the first time he's ever played league/rec ball. The HS, JC and babe Ruth teams all share the one 60/90 field in town. 335 to left, 325 to right, 365 to center, and 375 in the gaps. BR 13-15 bat rules are strange. They allow any alloy barrel bat, while any comp bat must be BBCOR. So, to take advantage, I bought him an old pre-BESR Connexion from the 90's. He found he could consistently put it over the 335' fence in left. way over. Hasn't cleared in center, but hits the wall a lot. We started a HS wood bat summer league. the mindset hasn't changed and he was amazed that he can also now pull the ball over the fence with a 34/32 wood bat. Last year he couldn't have come within 70' of that mark. In his head, he became a power hitter. of course, being 6' 2" / 175 lbs doesn't hurt, but he was 6' 1" / 165 last year.  At 8 or 9 just teach a kid to hit hard. The power comes much later.

I would caution that, for awhile, we got too hung up on bat speed at the expense of mass (thanks, Barry). I always teach swinging the heaviest bat you can mechanically handle. the formula is basically mass x velocity = power. So, don't undervalue mass at the expense of speed.

First heard of this from Jack Mankin...big proponent of bat speed.

formula for kinetic energy: E=1/2m*v^2

how hard you hit the ball goes up as the mass of the bat goes up, but increasing the bat speed increases the energy more.

If you double the weight of the bat, and keep the speed the same, the force doubles as well. However, if you keep the weight constant and double the speed, and the force goes up four times!

Bat speed is #1 followed by the mass. Swinging heavier bat(mass) specifically wood auto-corrects swing flaws and body mechanics. With stronger arm, a batter can increase bat speed. But it takes time and constant swinging to get the body accustomed to the weight. Bat speed generates farther distance with proper body mechanics. In the absence of one of those factors, long distance hit is not possible. So bat speed and mechanics go hand in hand.

The question would be, then, do most mlb power hitters probably swing too big a bat? Would Babe Ruth have been even better if he hadn't used a warclub?

roothog,

My opinion regarding your question, is today's MLB players likely do not use too heavy of a bat, however the old timers likely did.  IMO a lot of the power numbers you see by a wider range of players is due to an increase / understanding of better mechanics, resulting in bat speed.  Along those same lines, they have learned that you can swing a lighter bat faster, so with the better mechanics, and lighter bats you have guys like Pedroia putting up pretty good power numbers for 2B.  You never use to see guys like Bonds choking up on short bats...now the short bat is much more common.

At some point I have seen a graph done through a controlled test that showed a diminishing return at some point in increased bat speed vs. decreased weight. As I remember, you had to get pretty heavy to diminish exit speed and once you got too light, even a tremendous increase in bat speed still led to decreased exit speed. However, I also remember thinking that the opposite ends of this spectrum led to VERY heavy bats and VERY light bats. Everything in between seemed to even out. I think it used a study that showed that increased weight in a bat resulted in a decrease in bat speed that was less in a certain range than the 2x factor you mentioned, but that on both ends of the spectrumn there were points where a particular decrease in weight didn't wasn't enough to overcome the loss of mass necessary to reach the increased speed and the opposite happened at the other end - the increased weight at a certain point decreased bat speed to a level that produced dimished returns.

Interesting.  But complicated in practice!  For example, if a player adds 1" and 1oz to his bat, how much does his swing speed decrease?  You can't figure out if he's helping or hurting himself unless you calculate that.  But one thing is for sure - it's easier to buy a heavier bat than to learn how to swing more quickly.

Here is the problem with the focus being on weight.  Yes, you can swing too light, and too heavy of a bat. 

The problem I see frequently with bats that are too heavy, is that it hinders good swing mechanics.  #1 problem I see in youth dugouts, are bats that are too heavy for the kid swinging it.  Results in bat drag, poor swing plane, excessive reduction in bat speed, and being late.  When you get to a more mature physique (some HS), College, and Pro it is not much of an issue, and more a matter of preference.  Some may sacrafice "some" bat speed for a heavier bat, while others will opt on less mass for more bat speed, however the overall difference in kinetic energy is not very great.  With kids 15u and below, I often see them using bats much too heavy for them.

I guess this is a YMMV situation. Given my former occupation, I've seen thousands of yout teams at every age and the problem I saw so often, starting in the late nineties especially, was kids hitting with these ultra light bats as "bat speed" became the buzzword. What I saw was very "armsy" mechanics as kids learned to substitute fast swings for proper mechanics. What I see with heavier bats is an improvement in mechanics as a kid learns to adjust with better lower body mechanics...or they don't adjust and then can't hit.