Hitting help

Post a game swing on YouTube and link it here.

Yes, if you come here with video of your son's swing, you will likely get some good observations and advice.  But I would caution that, based on what you describe, there is a chance this can only add to his problems.  You say he has seen some of the better hitting instructors in your area.  Is there a reason he is seeing multiple instructors?  Does he have one that he had success with in the past and is comfortable with?  Does his mechanics philosophy match what your son feels is best for him? 

We have to speculate a bit here but it is possible that differing mechanics advice coming from multiple directions may be causing some mental confidence problems.  Or, there may be some cross-over of opposing mechanic philosophies (or some of both).  Clear the clutter and simplify.  Let familiarity of past success bring back the confidence.  Bring in the one instructor that is the best match and stick with it.

The HS coach issue should be handled as a separate piece.  Hopefully, between you, your son and his instructor of choice(and perhaps the HS coach), you can identify what HS coach is trying to accomplish with his directives and come to understand the differences between philosophies between hitting instructor and coach.  Then, figure out the best way for your son to communicate with HS coach so that he can move forward in a confident manner.

Thanks for your willingness to help. I am a bit hesitant to post video, since I don't want him identified. If I can edit it in such a way, then I will post.

Cabbagedad, good observations and questions, and some very valid points. Three people have been messing with his swing...his school coach, his summer team coach (who is a good hitting guy), and when he started struggling, I was recommended to see another guy who does RVP and focuses on the visual rather than the mechanical side. Up to then, I was the only one who ever worked with him on his swing.

We can't get away from the HS coach, who teaches something around hitting which I have never heard of. The coach says that he is a hitting expert, and is very unapproachable...his position is that when kids play for him, they need to do what he says, and he wants no interference from any other coaches or parents. My son says that if he doesn't swing the way the HS coach wants, he probably won't make varsity, ever.

I have no doubt that he is struggling mentally. He lost his starting spot in the team, first time that has ever happened, and that was not good for him. On the other hand, he also needs to learn how to cope with slumps and adversity, as long as he can work his way out of it.

My son is the same age. He went from "most valuable offensive player" on Freshman to the biggest slump he's ever had on the summer team run by JV coaches. Same kids, same opponents he played months earlier. The biggest change we could identify was the coaches attitude. "line drive", "keep the ball out of the air" very little encouragement. Messed with the kid's heads. Yes they have to deal with it but was a bit of a shock. It turned around some when I told him to trust the swing he knows, trust that he knows the game and the situation.

Thanks 2016Dad, good to know it's not only us The coaching in spring and summer was a culture shock to him...no more babying and daddyball. I am also starting to think that so many (including me) are telling him that he is struggling that it is a snowball effect.

As a matter of interest, what is the coach teaching?

I can relate to having a son play for a coach that demanded a certain approach. It killed me to watch, but my guy adopted the swing and did well with it while at the school. As soon as we could though we moved him to another program.

the bottom line is though that at various levels different teams may insist on different approaches, however some rules of thumb seem to always apply. Balance is always important, quick hands or bat-speed are usually desired by everyone, and keeping your front side closed until your bat begins to enter the hitting zone.

If your player can master these fundamentals he will be in a position to find success with a variety of hitting styles.

But I would try not to confuse him with differing techniques at the same time. That will really screw a hitter up.

Good Luck

You might be on to something here.  Tell him to just go out and play the game.  Have fun and not worry about the results other than doing his best to help his team win.

My son's best friend has experienced something similar.  Varsity starter as a freshman but didn't hit.  Didn't hit all summer.  Went to an event that he was selected to almost one year prior.  No one knew him.  No one knew his recent struggles they just knew how he performed almost one year ago.  

First AB base hit, second AB base hit and off we go.  Hit over .500 for the week.  Probably had more hits in 8 games there than he had all summer in almost 30 games.  Hopefully confidence has been restored.

Others may disagree but my guess this is a confidence and mental thing vs. anything major to do with his swing.  It may become something major with swing if you let it.  Every time my 2016 starts to struggle with getting hard consistent contact we emphasize the tee until he "finds it again".  Then we move to flips and just progress from there.  That might be one session or more but we never move to the next phase until he says he wants to.

Good luck and hang in there. 

He teaches something called the "one plane swing". It ends up with the hitter having his hands out in front of his hip rotation, and an uppercut swing.

Thanks for the encouragement. It is tough to see your kid struggle while we both know that he is much better than this. The frustration is starting to cause some inconsistencies too, as he is trying to adapt and just make good contact. It's as if he is not trusting anything in his swing right now.

Thanks for the kind words, advice and encouragement. We will get back to the basics of the swing this week and try and build it up from there while we have some downtime.

When I hear someone say 'uppercut' swing, usually they are talking about something dropping - either the hands or the back shoulder.  In reality, both drop in a MLB swing. MLB swings are 'uppercut' swings.

You don't want your hands in front (too early) though.

I'm sorry to hear your son is struggling,

If I may ask, what does "having the hands out in front of the hip rotation" mean exactly??

By the way, most successful hitters have a low point in their swings at or a tad in front of their center of gravity. So if you consider the ground to be your basis for what is "level" then most good hitters have an (slight) "uppercut".  Their swings are level, but not to the ground, they are level to the plane of the pitch, or are very close.

Thanks again everyone for your kind encouragement and continued interest.

I think I know what you mean by the slight upward swing, or uppercut, it is impossible to not do that if you want to meet the ball on the same plane that it is coming at you, and want to get it elevated enough to not be a soft grounder. What I am hypothesizing with my son is that there is too much of that, so much so that if his timing is not absolutely perfect, he tops it or hits under it...having me thinking that the bat simply is not in the impact zone, at the right angle long enough.

The coach wants their hands and hips to move at the same time, and he doesn't talk about separation at load. This results in the hands leading the rotation of the hips with players that have fast hands. I can see that it may work with a young player that struggles to get a heavy bat around, but not good for much else, and teaches a bad habit. I am not impressed.

Our story may have a happy ending yet...at a tryout tonight the coach had my son shorten his load with his hands, lean in a bit more from the waist, and reduced the amount of weight on his back foot when he loads, and he he hit the ball nice and flush (and hard) about 15 times in a row. Best I've seen him hit in many weeks. It was in a cage, so I couldn't judge how far the ball would have gone, but it looked and sounded good.

Put a mask on him . You can flip him around to be left handed with window movie.

Let me just say don't follow what the HS coach is teaching. Make sure he is balanced in the cage and isn't falling over after the swing. This is an immediate sign that something is wrong. It probably is something mental, but make sure his "mechanics" are good too. Help him feel comfortable in the box meaning the setup. make sure his stance and step feel comfortable. If he has a short stance trying elongating it a little. Make sure his back is straight during the swing and he isn't contorting himself to hit an outside or low pitch. In bp have him make his strike zone smaller and tell him to only swing at the perfect pitch. This will help him get comfortable. Make sure he isn't dropping shoulder, and that he gets his hands straight to the ball. Hips first, etc. mechanics are important, but it may be mental. Showing his swing would really improve the feedback you get. 

Agree with others that a video would help give additional feedback.

If a kid has good/consistent fundamentals with balance/positioning from set-up through the load/front foot-down before initiating the swing, the 3 main things that create inconsistent contact from swing to swing is being top hand dominant as you begin the arms/hands sequence of the swing (can create roll over too early), not keeping the hands inside the ball (creates differing periods of time from swing to swing that the bat is in the zone and ultimately results in not barreling the ball on the optimal spot), and timing (creating being late, but more often with good hitters being too early in that contact occurs during the initial phases of the follow-through).  Pop ups around the plate that you referenced earlier are typically the result of being too early.

A lot of tee work and feel is the best way to work on the correct hand path/hands inside the ball.  Short distance, underhand L-screen  work (15-20 feet) is a great way to continue working on the hand path and now the timing of it by varying the speed.

Getting the hands "straight to the ball" and not dropping the shoulder is a recipe for disaster.

I second this.  Show me one good hitter who (with the exception of extremely high pitches) hits with level shoulders.  

Auz can speak for himself...........but I understood his post to mean you shouldn't drop the back shoulder. Surely no one here is recommending that, are they?

IMO, dropping the back shoulder is one of those "catch-all" phrases that don't really get to the root of a specific hitting flaw. Kind of like "I looked up!" on a bad golf shot, as a comparison. Sounds good, means little.  

Every good hitter will almost always make contact with the rear shoulder lower than the front shoulder and the hands above the ball.  So, if the hitter assumes an attacking posture at front heel plant with the front shoulder down and in, the back shoulder is slightly above the front shoulder - and if then at contact the back shoulder is below the front shoulder - I had to somehow "drop", did it not?  

(Once again, IMO) What most people should be focusing on is the position of the FRONT shoulder from stance to toe touch or earlier in the swing than the "launch".  It should stay down and move in slightly.  Some may say that they are both the same, if the front shoulder isn't down, then that's dropping the back shoulder.  OK, I can see that, but most people when they see a hitter pop up will say, "Ah, he dropped his back shoulder!", assuming everything was fine until he rotated to swing then that pesky back shoulder dropped.   

When most people, at least around the area where I live, talk about dropping the back shoulder it refers to the load not the point of contact.

It is pretty much impossible not to drop the back shoulder some. If the back shoulder doesn't drop, the hands have to roll over.

We are seeing some progress with my son. Removed as many moving parts as we could from the swing, shortened his load and had him start wider so that his stride is "shorter". He still has a few tweaks to make, but is making much more consistent contact. In doing that he did seem to sacrifice some power, so we will have to see over a longer period how that works out.

Thanks again for all the suggestions, some of these were really helpful in pointing out what we need to look for. I will post video soon, after I recover my failed hard drive.

I think all hitting conversations and statements need to be put in context.  Dropping the back should is an example.  Yes it happens, but when?  Too early and you get to far under the ball.  At the right time, you crush the ball. 

You are a wise man Golfman25.

I think there's a difference between dipping the back shoulder and rotating the shoulders around a spine that's leaning forward.  Rotation around the spine will result in the back shoulder that is lower than the front shoulder during the swing, and a proper swing plane.  Dipping the back shoulder by sliding the hips forward will create problems.

I don't like people talking about shoulder rotation, because it's often believed to be a power source.

I agree that 'shoulder rotation' per se (level twisting) is not a good power source.

But, the backwards move of the bat head is initiated by, and driven by, two giant levers - back elbow drop and shoulder/torso drop. Right?

Well, yes and no. The back elbow "drop" is the result of lateral tilt as well as hand/forearm action. The torso tilt is the result of the back leg working under the body.

i think we as baseball people tend to make hitting way more complicated than it needs to be. in my opinion it is impossible to swing a bat or golf club or anything else without the back elbow dropping, i think we can all agree on that. in my opinion and the work i have done and the film i have studied you can and should take your hands str8 to the ball, the reason is because you have already completed your stride/load - you need to have a slight forward movement to start weight transfer - into what is a stiff front side. if you have a stiff front side you are also going to get the backside dropping, you are still swinging level but the plane is going change as your body rotates...i think anyone who studies hitting will agree on about 90 percent of the body positions, the terminology and teaching method is what leads to the arguements.

i honestly feel like as a coach my job is to keep it simple, film work frame by frame is not used enough, the key is not to have a term but for the hitter to understand and feel what a good swing is and how to get his body in position.