My son is in a slump hitting a lot of fly balls. I'm looking for advice for him. Please let me know what you see in these videos. Thank you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9mI3i7iLRY
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Two major adjustments would help immediately and significantly.
The first is your son would benefit from staying quieter and smoother when he is setting up. Right now his arms are moving so much it would be rare that he ever start in the same position. Along with the arms, his head and therefore his eyes are moving and as he starts his swing, his head moves sharply and significantly down.
Secondly and even more importantly is that he needs to get his hands back and the slack out of the lead arm when he loads. He will also benefit from his hands being in a lower position when he starts his swing. Taking the slack out of his lead arm should accomplish doing that somewhat.
Starting from a high hand position without taking the slack out causes him to swing down on the ball and then he quickly changes the plane upward. That's why his follow through is high like a golfer. Right now the bat does not stay on the plane of the ball long enough. Even when the timing is good, he is cheating himself out of power because of the path of his bat.
Without getting rid of the slack, it is causing a disconnect with his rotation and his bat is dragging. Your son's back shoulder is dipping causing additional bat drag.
By getting his bat back and slack out of his lead arm, it will give him more room to slot his back elbow as he rotates, therefore the bat will be on the plane of the ball sooner and longer. It will also be in a position where he can hide his hands from the pitcher and therefore create a circular path to the ball like professional hitters do.
I congratulate you on taking the initiative to improve your son. It looks like he has some talent and ability.
You would be doing yoursef and son a favor by checking out batspeed.com. Everything you need to make necessary adjustments is in detail there. Good luck.
The first is your son would benefit from staying quieter and smoother when he is setting up. Right now his arms are moving so much it would be rare that he ever start in the same position. Along with the arms, his head and therefore his eyes are moving and as he starts his swing, his head moves sharply and significantly down.
Secondly and even more importantly is that he needs to get his hands back and the slack out of the lead arm when he loads. He will also benefit from his hands being in a lower position when he starts his swing. Taking the slack out of his lead arm should accomplish doing that somewhat.
Starting from a high hand position without taking the slack out causes him to swing down on the ball and then he quickly changes the plane upward. That's why his follow through is high like a golfer. Right now the bat does not stay on the plane of the ball long enough. Even when the timing is good, he is cheating himself out of power because of the path of his bat.
Without getting rid of the slack, it is causing a disconnect with his rotation and his bat is dragging. Your son's back shoulder is dipping causing additional bat drag.
By getting his bat back and slack out of his lead arm, it will give him more room to slot his back elbow as he rotates, therefore the bat will be on the plane of the ball sooner and longer. It will also be in a position where he can hide his hands from the pitcher and therefore create a circular path to the ball like professional hitters do.
I congratulate you on taking the initiative to improve your son. It looks like he has some talent and ability.
You would be doing yoursef and son a favor by checking out batspeed.com. Everything you need to make necessary adjustments is in detail there. Good luck.
watch the stride also i notice timing wise he goes back then out try to eliminate the back motion. You want momentum with the hip rotation and that will put that little extra on the ball for the next level
JDsdad, you have a PM
The lead elbow does not get back behind the belly button well before toe touch
He IS standing really upright and just loosey goosey pops the hips and hands. Nothing wrong with that but he doen't know what to do with the hands during the loading phase to create some whip action that comes THROUGH the body. THere is little hip/ shoulder separation and his hands don't get back and the front foot down widening the torque angle soon enough
He doesn't have the correct upper body baseball
" backswing".
You could try some two plane loading...that would push the hands back behind the rotary mechanism and get more torque and give him more time and need for weight shift
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WAjIO0_JTI
Seems athletic. I would enjoy working with that.
HE needs to look for the ball down around the thigh to drive it. The pitching seems slow which can allow you to swing at anything,,,,,be more selective
He IS standing really upright and just loosey goosey pops the hips and hands. Nothing wrong with that but he doen't know what to do with the hands during the loading phase to create some whip action that comes THROUGH the body. THere is little hip/ shoulder separation and his hands don't get back and the front foot down widening the torque angle soon enough
He doesn't have the correct upper body baseball
" backswing".
You could try some two plane loading...that would push the hands back behind the rotary mechanism and get more torque and give him more time and need for weight shift
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WAjIO0_JTI
Seems athletic. I would enjoy working with that.
HE needs to look for the ball down around the thigh to drive it. The pitching seems slow which can allow you to swing at anything,,,,,be more selective
Thanks everyone for your help. SBK we'll definitely try and quiet the bat waggle. From everyones input he needs to work on his load too. Thanks again.
the waggle is OK it is just that his bat is in NOWHERE LAND.
Either get it behind the helmet in the 45 slot, the splitting helmet slot or go on and get it outside the helmet and tipped forward
At any location the barrel need to be cocked .
download the PP in the other thread...164 pages and it shows all the " hand sets" ...his current set isn't in it BYW
Either get it behind the helmet in the 45 slot, the splitting helmet slot or go on and get it outside the helmet and tipped forward
At any location the barrel need to be cocked .
download the PP in the other thread...164 pages and it shows all the " hand sets" ...his current set isn't in it BYW
Remember, keeping your swing short to the ball will increase your bat speed. Also you never want to tense or try and muscle the ball. All you want is a short path to the ball with loose hands and learn to hit behind the ball. By keeping your hands loose helps you to duplicate your swing everytime and thats what you want. Also a lot of times when you miss hit a ball (pop fly) is due to not seeing the ball all the way to point of contact.
I agree with most of this post. His head movement (it should stay very still no up, down, forward or backward movement) and position (too far over front knee at contact) and swing path are the two biggest problems. But, I would add that his hips are turning too late. Dropping his hands and pushing his left hand back to load may change everything. USE TEE WORK TO FIX HIS PROBLEMS!
quote:Originally posted by SBK:
Two major adjustments would help immediately and significantly.
The first is your son would benefit from staying quieter and smoother when he is setting up. Right now his arms are moving so much it would be rare that he ever start in the same position. Along with the arms, his head and therefore his eyes are moving and as he starts his swing, his head moves sharply and significantly down.
Secondly and even more importantly is that he needs to get his hands back and the slack out of the lead arm when he loads. He will also benefit from his hands being in a lower position when he starts his swing. Taking the slack out of his lead arm should accomplish doing that somewhat.
Starting from a high hand position without taking the slack out causes him to swing down on the ball and then he quickly changes the plane upward. That's why his follow through is high like a golfer. Right now the bat does not stay on the plane of the ball long enough. Even when the timing is good, he is cheating himself out of power because of the path of his bat.
Without getting rid of the slack, it is causing a disconnect with his rotation and his bat is dragging. Your son's back shoulder is dipping causing additional bat drag.
By getting his bat back and slack out of his lead arm, it will give him more room to slot his back elbow as he rotates, therefore the bat will be on the plane of the ball sooner and longer. It will also be in a position where he can hide his hands from the pitcher and therefore create a circular path to the ball like professional hitters do.
I congratulate you on taking the initiative to improve your son. It looks like he has some talent and ability.
You would be doing yoursef and son a favor by checking out batspeed.com. Everything you need to make necessary adjustments is in detail there. Good luck.
My son is starting to have better results. I don't know if a lot has changed in his swing. I don't have a very good eye for that. Here are some links to video from his last couple games. Let me know if you see anything different thanks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzVKb1Q2iqg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijSQxgfJiEg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7XwznpELfQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzVKb1Q2iqg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijSQxgfJiEg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7XwznpELfQ
I like that you said "starting" because he still has most of the same issues, but he has minimized most of them. His swing plane is much better and the bathead stays above his hands through most of the swing. He is still moving forward with his head too much and this will hurt him when he faces a pitcher with good change of speed. If you look at the clip with the kid standing in the dugout with his hands over his head, you can see how far his head moves back and then forward. It is staying level for the most part now though. I believe if he drops his hands another 6" or so, he will eliminate almost all of his problems. He is using his lower body much more now and he has very good batspeed.quote:Originally posted by JDsDad:
My son is starting to have better results. I don't know if a lot has changed in his swing. I don't have a very good eye for that. Here are some links to video from his last couple games. Let me know if you see anything different thanks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzVKb1Q2iqg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijSQxgfJiEg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7XwznpELfQ
quote:Originally posted by JDsDad:
My son is starting to have better results. I don't know if a lot has changed in his swing. I don't have a very good eye for that. Here are some links to video from his last couple games. Let me know if you see anything different thanks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzVKb1Q2iqg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijSQxgfJiEg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7XwznpELfQ
This is the first I've seen this clip, so here's a few comments...
1. He's much too erect at set-up. He needs to bend his knees more and spread his feet out.
2. As he nears launch, he drops into a better position, but I would suggest that he should start out in that position.
3. He seems to get out over his front leg rather than staying back.
4. I wish he was more still at set-up.
5. His hip rotation is good. He should be able to hit the ball well once he gets going.
Thanks guys. Micmeister, His head still does move a lot. It seems like a lot of hitters back in the day moved as they swung forgive me if these are bad examples (Ruth,Aaron,and Mays)? I try to tell him to keep his weight back and trust his hands. He's been facing a lot of slower pitchers and its tough for him to let the ball travel he wants to kill it sometimes like in the original videos.
Yes, they did move a lot back then, but the pitchers didn't throw as hard and didn't get the break on pitches that they do now. Like everything else in life, things advance and in sports they usually get better. Those guys also struck out a lot too, even then. I don't think anyone would argue that if you could time the pitch perfectly with that much weight shift from front to back, it would go farther and be hit harder. But, the timing part is the tough part.quote:Originally posted by JDsDad:
Thanks guys. Micmeister, His head still does move a lot. It seems like a lot of hitters back in the day moved as they swung forgive me if these are bad examples (Ruth,Aaron,and Mays)? I try to tell him to keep his weight back and trust his hands. He's been facing a lot of slower pitchers and its tough for him to let the ball travel he wants to kill it sometimes like in the original videos.
micmister
Your making this up...
quote:Yes, they did move a lot back then, but the pitchers didn't throw as hard and didn't get the break on pitches that they do now.
Your making this up...
Name me one Major League pitcher that threw 98+ or threw a split finger fasball when these guys played and I'll eat my words!quote:Originally posted by deemax:
micmisterquote:Yes, they did move a lot back then, but the pitchers didn't throw as hard and didn't get the break on pitches that they do now.
Your making this up...
Bob Feller.. 98+
Nolan Ryan 98+
Bruce Sutter...You didnt mention the split before, but you wanted an example (1st year 1976, Hank Aarons last year 1976)
To put Nolan Ryan as an example or Bruce Sutter is kind of stretching it. Aaron hit .229 his last year and most of the time he and Ryan were playing in the Majors, one was in the American League and the other was in the National League. How many times did any of these six face each other and what was their success rate??? If you say Feller threw that hard, I'll have to take your word for it since they didn't have radar guns at the time, but did he have a circle change, splitter, fork ball, screw ball, cutter? Anything else that looked like a fastball coming out of his hand??? Good hitters today HAVE to wait longer to start their swing, that was the point I was making.quote:Originally posted by deemax:
Bruce Sutter...You didnt mention the split before, but you wanted an example (1st year 1976, Hank Aarons last year 1976)
micmiester
quote:Name me one Major League pitcher that threw 98+ or threw a split finger fasball when these guys played and I'll eat my words!
Okay! You got me! I'm full now! I also looked it up and Aaron hit two homers off of Ryan. Don't know what his BA was against him though.quote:Originally posted by deemax:
micmiesterquote:Name me one Major League pitcher that threw 98+ or threw a split finger fasball when these guys played and I'll eat my words!
I have a question for you though. Do you think anyone should be teaching any of those guy's (Ruth, Aaron, Mays) styles to any player that has College or Pro aspirations?
quote:Do you think anyone should be teaching either of those guy's styles to any player that has College or Pro aspirations?
Depends on the hitter, but if I saw a hitter who does have movement that resembles some of the greats of yesteryear I wouldnt be in a hurry to take it away. Ruth, Aaron, and Mays combined to hit over 2000 bombs... Im not qualified to tell someone not to swing like them...
quote:Originally posted by micmeister:Name me one Major League pitcher that threw 98+ or threw a split finger fasball when these guys played and I'll eat my words!quote:Originally posted by deemax:
micmisterquote:Yes, they did move a lot back then, but the pitchers didn't throw as hard and didn't get the break on pitches that they do now.
Your making this up...
Sandy Koufax
Bob Gibson
Don Drysdale
Bob Feller
Walter Johnson
Smokey Joe Wood
quote:Originally posted by micmeister:Name me one Major League pitcher that threw 98+ or threw a split finger fasball when these guys played and I'll eat my words!quote:Originally posted by deemax:
micmisterquote:Yes, they did move a lot back then, but the pitchers didn't throw as hard and didn't get the break on pitches that they do now.
Your making this up...
First of all, there were no radar guns being used in the 60's when Koufax, Gibson, Seaver and many more were young, so there is no way to compare their velocity to a guy today. The radar guns are for the fans and they have changed many times over the years too. The first guns used were the old Jugs guns that had a nose cone and they were a few mph slower than the guns today. In the 80's most teams started using the Decatur Ray gun and it got the reading over the plate.....guys like Clemens were getting recorded at about 88mph. Then Jugs came back and produced a new gun that most of the scouts started using that got the reading out of the hand and now Clemens was at 97mph. Then, Jugs came out with a little gun and now guys were throwing 100mph.
The Stalker was the next gun and it is about 2mph faster than the old Jugs gun, but not quite as fast as the little Jugs gun. When I go to the big league parks in the month of Sept. we will sit behind home plate, and a guy will be throwing 91 mph on all of our guns, but the reading on the scoreboard says 94mph. What that means is that the readings are nonsense. They are for the fans to get excited about and nothing else. The hitter will let the pitcher know how quick his fastball is and nothing else matters.
How do I know this??? Because I have tested it in person for about 30 years.
"The hitter will let the pitcher know how quick his fastball is and nothing else matters."
I agree with this totally, but there is still the reaction time difference and that is why I say drastic head movement from back to front or up and down is a bad thing. It's not as bad, if the movement stops before the hands go, but in my opinion, it's still bad.
I agree with this totally, but there is still the reaction time difference and that is why I say drastic head movement from back to front or up and down is a bad thing. It's not as bad, if the movement stops before the hands go, but in my opinion, it's still bad.
Drastic anything is a problem, but that was not your statement. Your statement was that you would eat your words if he could name one major leaguer who threw 98+. Bob Feller was timed at that and it was on a pitch over the plate which is 4-9 mph slower than out of the hand. Ryan was timed at 101 mph out of the hand and that was about 35 years ago. Elroy Face of the Pirates threw a forkball and was their top reliever in the late 50's and early 60's.
Grab a bat, use just a little skull cap, no body or armor on your lead arm and face Mr. Gibson. Then tell me how hard he is throwing!!!!
Grab a bat, use just a little skull cap, no body or armor on your lead arm and face Mr. Gibson. Then tell me how hard he is throwing!!!!
bbscout
Did you ever hear of any hitter who truly wanted to step in the v box when Gibson was pitching---he was not only nasty he was mean
Did you ever hear of any hitter who truly wanted to step in the v box when Gibson was pitching---he was not only nasty he was mean
quote:The radar guns are for the fans and they have changed many times over the years too. The first guns used were the old Jugs guns that had a nose cone and they were a few mph slower than the guns today. In the 80's most teams started using the Decatur Ray gun and it got the reading over the plate.....guys like Clemens were getting recorded at about 88mph. Then Jugs came back and produced a new gun that most of the scouts started using that got the reading out of the hand and now Clemens was at 97mph. Then, Jugs came out with a little gun and now guys were throwing 100mph.
bbscout that's interesting.Especially the part about Clemen's. Would you say changes in the radar guns played a bigger part in 100 mph readings than steriod use? I think the hitters from the 60's and 70's would do just fine nowadays.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think guys like Clemens, Smoltz, Maddox, Sheets, would have a field day with guys with that much head movement, but hey, if you guys want to teach people to hit like that and you have success doing it, more power to you. I just stated my opinion. Dad, if you think that is the answer to your son's hitting problems, then you got your answer here. I'll look forward to hearing about his progress.quote:Originally posted by JDsDad:quote:The radar guns are for the fans and they have changed many times over the years too. The first guns used were the old Jugs guns that had a nose cone and they were a few mph slower than the guns today. In the 80's most teams started using the Decatur Ray gun and it got the reading over the plate.....guys like Clemens were getting recorded at about 88mph. Then Jugs came back and produced a new gun that most of the scouts started using that got the reading out of the hand and now Clemens was at 97mph. Then, Jugs came out with a little gun and now guys were throwing 100mph.
bbscout that's interesting.Especially the part about Clemen's. Would you say changes in the radar guns played a bigger part in 100 mph readings than steriod use? I think the hitters from the 60's and 70's would do just fine nowadays.
Again, can you imagine a guy that dove into the ball like any of these three hitting a home run off Gibson and living through his next at bat???quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
bbscout
Did you ever hear of any hitter who truly wanted to step in the v box when Gibson was pitching---he was not only nasty he was mean
I did eat my words if you look just a few posts back. Again, How did these guys fare against Face, Feller or Gibson? That is the bottom line of this whole thread. If they lit them up, then you have proven your point, if they didn't, I proved mine.quote:Originally posted by bbscout:
Drastic anything is a problem, but that was not your statement. Your statement was that you would eat your words if he could name one major leaguer who threw 98+. Bob Feller was timed at that and it was on a pitch over the plate which is 4-9 mph slower than out of the hand. Ryan was timed at 101 mph out of the hand and that was about 35 years ago. Elroy Face of the Pirates threw a forkball and was their top reliever in the late 50's and early 60's.
Grab a bat, use just a little skull cap, no body or armor on your lead arm and face Mr. Gibson. Then tell me how hard he is throwing!!!!
quote:Originally posted by micmeister:Name me one Major League pitcher that threw 98+ or threw a split finger fasball when these guys played and I'll eat my words!quote:Originally posted by deemax:
micmisterquote:Yes, they did move a lot back then, but the pitchers didn't throw as hard and didn't get the break on pitches that they do now.
Your making this up...
Here is your quote.....
The hitters fared then against Face, Feller and Gibson the same way today's hitters fare against Smoltz, Clemens and Maddux.
personally i don't think its terrible. two things i thought of right off the bat (no pun intended!!). he stands very upright (not a big deal) but stays upright, so some bend may be good or spread his feet a bit (just outside shoulders)and have him just lift his foot and set it down. i like a flatter bat, about 45 degrees above the shoulder, with the hands generally between the shoulder and ear. i think the bat stays in the zone longer and shortens the swing. this will quiet the hands some but give him some room to wiggle if it helps him (griffey does it)
quote:Originally posted by bbscout:I know what my quote was. I've been proven wrong on that quote and I admitted it. What were the numbers if any of those hitters faced any of those pitchers? Tony Gwynn hit over .500 against Smoltz with no head movement. Give me an example of one of your type hitters against any of the afore mentioned pitchers. ANY Major League hitter can get a few hits or a few home runs on any pitcher, but what is the success rate vs. certain pitchers. JD's Dad's original post was about what his son could do about hitting lazy fly balls. I said that I thought his up, down, forward head movement, and his quick downward and quick upward "swing path" were the biggest problems. I gave a poor example of why this wouldn't work now as opposed to now, but I still don't think it would. Until someone shows me numbers and examples to prove otherwise, I will continue to believe that, but I am teachable.quote:Originally posted by micmeister:Name me one Major League pitcher that threw 98+ or threw a split finger fasball when these guys played and I'll eat my words!quote:Originally posted by deemax:
micmisterquote:Yes, they did move a lot back then, but the pitchers didn't throw as hard and didn't get the break on pitches that they do now.
Your making this up...
Here is your quote.....
The hitters fared then against Face, Feller and Gibson the same way today's hitters fare against Smoltz, Clemens and Maddux.
Micmeister, I agree my son does move his head a lot and he is working to minimize it. I just thought it seemed like a lot of hitters in times past had some controlled forward movement. Another couple guys that seem to do pretty well are Ichiro and Vlad but I don't think you'd want to teach anybody to mimic their styles.
