Hitting opposite way.....

Both these clips are of guys pulling the ball. What are you trying to say here?

What lower body correction needs to be made?

Can you explain more?

I think it is a good place to start. For me, its not necessarily learning to hit the other way, but more like focusing on hitting the ball the other way.

I have never gotten out of a slump by looking to pull a ball...

How do you teach synching of the upper and lower body?

Where is the natural contact spot? Do you mean depending on where the pitch is?

quote:

Where is the natural contact spot?

It's where the bat wants to contact the ball after the brain says swing....

But, if your body is not in synch, your timing will be off because the naturalness of your swing won't be there........No matter if the pitch is inside, middle or outside....

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quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
It's where the bat wants to contact the ball after the brain says swing....

Okay, so does that vary from swing to swing?

quote:

But, if your body is not in synch with your brain, your timing will be off because the naturalness of your swing won't be there........No matter if the pitch is inside, middle or outside....

If your body is not in synch with your brain? What do you think is directing the body in the first place?

I still am having trouble grasping a couple things here:

1. What is the point of all of this?

2. How do you teach this stuff?

3. What do the clips you posted show?

quote:

If your body is not in synch with your brain?

Beemax, I changed that after I thought about it...Please re-read..

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Okay, so does that vary from swing to swing?

I don't think so.....

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What is the point of all of this?

Hopefully, to get others to re-think having players swing with a tee placed farther back in their stance as a teaching drill.......

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What do the clips you posted show?

I'm hoping someone will figure this out...You maybe?

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I'm hoping someone will figure this out...You maybe?[/QUOTE]

BlueDog,

I am not into riddles. If the clips have a point that you want to show, tell us. Otherwise asking people to figure out what you are saying just makes you look incompetent on this subject.

What I see is you talking about hitting the opposite way...

...then you posting clips of Chipper and Ortiz pulling home runs.

Sorry if I don't see a correlation here.

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
I do know this, though.....Most great hitters, by their own admissions and by the defensive shifts opponents used against them, were pull hitters....

There must be a storyline in there, somewhere....

Most great hitters...or Ted Williams?

I love Ted Williams, and his own quote "Major League history is made on the inside part of the plate."

I am not saying that pulling the ball is not something to focus on, but you are starting to stray off of the original post here.

What about Boggs? Ichiro? Gwynn? Were/are they pull hitters?

To be a great power hitter you need to learn to pull, but I won't buy into the fact that most great hitters are pull hitters.

I would look to Pujols, Cabrera, Ordonez, Howard, A Rod...these guys all have power to all fields.

Anyway...

What approach do you think is best when your timing is off?

And what is the point of your clips?

What about Clemente and Mays?


Were they pull hitters?

quote:

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
This is what Brian Butterfield said about Giambi and Ortiz......

[QUOTE]In addition, Butterfield studies computer files catalogued into segments that break down Giambi’s ground balls against left-handed and right-handed pitchers. When power hitters like Ortiz and Giambi hit to the left side, Butterfield said, the charts show that they usually hit the ball in the air or dribble a grounder, so it is sensible to have one infielder on the left side and three on the right.

Ok, what does this have to do with anything? they are pull hitters and the put a shift on for them...what's your point?

quote:

Argueably, the two best hitters ever, Williams and Bonds, were pull hitters..........There is something to be said for that.....

I agree, there is something to be said for that.

However, what are you getting at? That everyone should learn to pull the ball and not worry about hitting the ball the other way?

What does the term "pull hitter" mean to you?

Do you think Bonds and Williams couldn't hit the ball the other way? I know I have seen Bonds hit home runs the other way (look at homer 755 if you want proof).

Again, what does this have to do with timing?

Are you going to answer any of these questions, or the ones I asked earlier?

quote:

However, what are you getting at? That everyone should learn to pull the ball and not worry about hitting the ball the other way?

I've already answered your question.......Why do you keep asking it?

what about hitting opposite field because the ball is pitched outer third, not because of issues with "timing". If the pitch is down the middle, why not take it back up the middle, inside pull. Why not hit the ball where it is pitched.

quote:

Originally posted by floridafan:
what about hitting opposite field because the ball is pitched outer third, not because of issues with "timing". If the pitch is down the middle, why not take it back up the middle, inside pull. Why not hit the ball where it is pitched.

Thank you, floridafan.

Anytime!

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
I've already answered your question.......Why do you keep asking it?

I wasn't aware that I asked you only one question. I suggest you scroll up and look at what I have asked before, otherwise I'm done with your vague, generalized, riddle-filled responses.

Are you trying to learn, teach, or just run around in circles?

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
Probably a good idea since you misrepresented what I was saying....

I challenge you to find someone on this forum who would have the ability to accurately represent what you are saying.

If you want to answer any of my questions, please be my guest.

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:

quote:

Where is the natural contact spot?

It's where the bat [b]wants to contact the ball
....

Why am I getting this picture of Chevy Chase as Ty Webb saying "Be the bat"?

lol

"See your future, be your future. Be, be the ball".

Great line...Ty Webb should be posting here as a "hitting guru".

Even Teddy Ballgame admitted the shift Lou Boudreau came up with totally shut him down until he learned to hit the ball opposite field. Pitch to the side of the shift was the secret ( my uncle played for Boudreau in the minors and heard this story alot). Make the pull hitter pull the ball or hit singles the opposite way (Williams did not have HR power going oppo).

This has been a very strange thread. I'm waiting for Obi-Wan to start telling us to "Use the Force".

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
I just had to post this after reading posts on this board and another board.....

Teaching hitters to hit the opposite way to correct timing issues is not the way to go.....

Concentrating on letting the ball get deeper is not the answer to timing issues in the swing, IMO.....

If you are swinging early because of some newfound more efficient hitting technique, or improved body movement, letting the ball get deeper before you swing is not the answer to your problem....

The correction is in the lower body......

Bluedog,

I'm not trying to pile on, but why would learning to let the ball get deeper NOT be a viable solution, especially if your swing quickness has increased? Wouldn't you HAVE to start the swing later given that situation?

I don't think this is a Ted only thing.

How about Hank here:

http://www.beabetterhitter.com/text/batspeed/coiling/coiling.htm

I would separate out the clips from the accompanying analysis that might have you try to adjust by thinking about where you are going to have the feet and lower body end up, which won't work as Williams says in his book. Reaction time will not allow.

So I would say there is some on the fly adjustment initated in the upper body based on having early batspeed and enough read time so that a well synched lower body will show some sign of adjutsment.

OK. I do not make my living hitting a baseball nor have I ever done that. I do not make my lving teaching how to hit a baseball nor have I ever done that either. I dostrictly volunteer work. But it seems to me that you have to hit the high inside pitch a little out in front of the plate and the low outside pitch a little into the plate from the normal down the middle hit off the tee swingpath. And most smart pitching coaches/catchers and a few pitchers know this. So they will try to throw the real hard fast ball up and in and the changeup low and away if they can, won't they?

So if timing is never an issue in this scenario, what is? Don't you have to "speed up" your set up to swing to hit the high hard one and "slow down" your set up to swing to hit the outside changeup? Even if it is just an incremental adjustment? What am I missing here? Someone please explain? Is someone saying it is impossible to do that at the higher levels?

TW344

What they're saying is you don't "keep the weight back" or "stay back", which are cues so poorly designed and interpreted that they cause more harm than good.

You learn to move the lower body forward without shifting weight/releasing lower body/hip load. And, that you maintain movement and momentum in the upper body and hands without rotating them forward...yet.

In other words, there is a recognition of the pitch and a reaction to adjust on the fly. On the inside pitch...the body signals "go". On the outside/off speed pitch, the body fills time by continuing the upper body load before unload, while the hands fill time by moving the barrel from forward tilt into swing plane before rotating forward.

Just a guess.

Keep your weight back (as defined by the traditional cue)...and you're vulnerable to the fastball.

Don't learn to "create time" or good seqential separation with momentum, and barrel manipulation....and you're vulnerable to the off speed.

To me, those who don't learn this reach the end of the road a lot sooner than those who figure it out.

OK, so what is the role of keeping the front knee "soft?"

Please explain how a batter pulls an outside fastball??
EH

The clip of Aaron shows his front knee landing soft and doesn't show it firming up. I believe that's what CoachB25 is alluding to.

Aaron is hitting the ball oppo. Therefore, his hips don't need to rotate as much as an inside pitch. There is no firming up of the front leg, which is a result of front hip opening.

I believe landing soft on the front leg serves two purposes....

It is a timing issue and leaves room for a late adjustment as to when you want it to touch....

And, it helps a hitter to NOT depend as much on the legs in the swing....

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
I believe landing soft on the front leg serves two purposes....

It is a timing issue and leaves room for a late adjustment as to when you want it to touch....

And, it helps a hitter to NOT depend as much on the legs in the swing....

I think you understand my point!

Excellent point on the soft knee. Aaron is hitting one bal up the middle and pulling the other, not oppo at all. The picture angles are moved. I let many balls get deep in order to go away and also would focus on going thru the middle when I was constantly pitched in spots not conducive to pulling. Its kinda like hit it where its pitched.
Beemax, how goes it? Seeing the ball well I hope?

After going back and re-reading this thread, I believe there was some very very good information here! Also, probably some of the best swings in the history of baseball. I also find it interesting that Bonds, Williams and Jones had very, very similar swings. Chipper has a little more tip and float, but he has a little higher leg lift too. Once you understand the handle torque aspect of the swing, I believe Chipper's swing is a very good model for a guy with speed and not as big as say Bonds or Ortiz.

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:

quote:

Where is the natural contact spot?

It's where the bat wants to contact the ball after the brain says swing....

But, if your body is not in synch, your timing will be off because the naturalness of your swing won't be there........No matter if the pitch is inside, middle or outside....

Blue,

I think this may be the best quote you've ever put on this board. I too think this is what happens for good hitters and believe it is a gift or skill that not everyone has, but maybe it can be developed. I wouldn't know how to begin to develop that in a hitter, but I believe beemax has that ability or he wouldn't be where he is now.

The problem, IMO, with trying to hit the ball deep to correct timing problems is that it may help short term, but I think you will have more slumps and timing problems in the long term from this approach and miss out on some HR possiblilities on inside pitches during the process.

Interesting comments. We just got back from working with my child in a cage. Beautiful outside and so, a Dad and his kid working on hitting. Nothing better. What we were doing is that she's facing several D-I recruited pitchers in a row. I tried to get her to work the three spots alternating and not in sequence but I want her to drive that inside pitch. We move to the field and do the same drill now so that she can see the results. She stops and says, she's going to power those balls to the right field gap. She says that's where she feels strongest. I've always loved the inside pitch so that I could explode the hips and drive it. She feels so much stronger in right center. Most of her homeruns have come that way and all of her doubles this year.

quote:

Originally posted by CoachB25:
Interesting comments. We just got back from working with my child in a cage. Beautiful outside and so, a Dad and his kid working on hitting. Nothing better. What we were doing is that she's facing several D-I recruited pitchers in a row. I tried to get her to work the three spots alternating and not in sequence but I want her to drive that inside pitch. We move to the field and do the same drill now so that she can see the results. She stops and says, she's going to power those balls to the right field gap. She says that's where she feels strongest. I've always loved the inside pitch so that I could explode the hips and drive it. She feels so much stronger in right center. Most of her homeruns have come that way and all of her doubles this year.

Coach,

Is she a righty or a lefty?

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:

Coach,

Is she a righty or a lefty?

She is a righty. She has a history of getting hitter's thumb for whatever reason and so, she likes to sit on the ball and hit to the right field power gap. She doesn't injure her thumb as often. She did it again tonight. It is very painful and our trainer says she is going to have to take some time off when HS is over. However, you know how that will work.

Great discussion people. Thanks for helping me figure it out. I am printing this whole discussion out for my son.

TW344

There are very few Derek Jeter types in MLB. No one consistently goes opposite field as much as he does. Very few hitters can let the ball get this deep.



Check out his "Pulled" numbers and compare them to his "Opp Fld" numbers. His numbers are actually better to the opposite field.

Another hitter that is good at letting the ball get deep is Ryan Howard. He has more career HR to the opposite field in HALF the number of at-bats. That is astounding, bordering on ridiculous.

quote:

Originally posted by XV:
There are very few Derek Jeter types in MLB. No one consistently goes opposite field as much as he does. Very few hitters can let the ball get this deep.



Check out his "Pulled" numbers and compare them to his "Opp Fld" numbers. His numbers are actually better to the opposite field.

Another hitter that is good at letting the ball get deep is Ryan Howard. He has more career HR to the opposite field in HALF the number of at-bats. That is astounding, bordering on ridiculous.

What do you consider deep?

The front knee or behind the knee.Pujols loves it at his front knee.The difference here is the arm positioning.Looks like Jeter is just late and hasn't gotten the bathead around,or he just likes lagging it behind.It obviously works for him.I have just gone through a time teaching my daughter to purposely hit like this(lagging the bathead to send the ball opposite way)Much different mechanics than jeter though ) to become a slapper,and she had horrible issues with being too early(hitting and slapping),but she is up to a .416 batting average with it now,from a .111.