Hitting With Backspin

jemoz

I can't speak for the rest, but I don't use terms like linear, rotational or give physics lessons to my 10 year old. I do however enjoy learning about the mechanics of the swing to better understand "why" and "how" to teach the proper swing more effectively.

I have learned a great deal about hitting a baseball on this forum as well as other forums and there is a wealth of knowlege being offered here that I am very greatful for. Some of us like the more technical stuff because we come from a technical background. Also, it is very interesting and entertaining for some of us. JMO

Ross.

PS No "o" in my last name.

jemaz,

With your last statement, I can agree.

I sure know that I studied the daylights out of my golf swing and my friends would tell me that I'm overthinking on the course, etc.. And as much as I'd try not to, as soon as I'd run into a little trouble, I just couldn't help my mind from switching "on".

Solution: "those who can do; those who can't teach". So I hung up my clubs a little over a year ago - which, not so coincidentally is about the same time I started really studying the baseball swing. However, I don't bore my son to death w/ nearly as much detail as I study. So hopefully, all this thinking in the head of the instructor is not as detrimental as in the athlete's head?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Callaway:
TR
...
Perhaps Bob should start an "Idiots Forum" and give you the power to stick all of us in it!

---

Guys:

I really am not trying to stifle the discussion, which I very much enjoy, as well. And every single post here has prompted me to do some thinking about hitting a baseball, which is never a bad thing.

So, keep talking, enjoy it and all the best to the sons of every single one of you. I hope they derive from baseball what we all want more than anything and that is, of course, a lifelong love of the game.

hi jemaz

sorry for being rude before. it has been years of taking this bull in the field that irritate me.

i believe what you call "natural" is not natural at all. most of the time a good kid comes along with a nice swing, it is a copy or emulation of his favourite hitter. most of this "natural god given talents" happen to have a photographic memory and are very good at mimicking. so you can see that there is nothing natural about them. then they "happen" to come accross a good coach that understands the kid and what is needed to be done or simply step aside and leave the kid alone and you have as the end result a "natural". this is more or less what happens in a baseball field with cleats on, not in front of the computer.
on the other hand, i would never ever pay attention to a "natural" giving advice. they dont have a clue as to what they do with their body, let alone being able to teach anything-most are retards with no education-. i always listen to our "whiz" kids in our team, ex-minor leaguers or whatever balloney sandwich league they sprung from, giving "advice" to everybody. most of their advice is "death" in the box as in "bench your rearend for life". for example, they have this "swing level thing", which is basically "swing with level shoulders". and when you ask this resident guru, "what do i do with the low pitch?". they shrug their shoulders and say a retard-like thing like "who cares"and walk away.
truth is they can not verbalize let alone teach what they do. then just two minutes later, they swing at a low pitch with a tilt in their shoulder and you go "what in the world is this "level" swing?.
in fact, i would not listen to a hall of famer with much attention. they can do ill to you. i would rather "watch" what they do and not "what they say". i would rather watch to how they approach a middle in pith, or outside pitch, than listen to their snake-oil secrets which in fact are no secrets at all. they use clues that work FOR THEM. this same clues will hurt your kid or another player because he is a different entity with different resources at hand to complete a task.

take for example, barry bonds and his fantastic clue "the vision tunnel for the inside pitch" or something like that. if i used that clue, i would be o-fer-4 in every baseball match i play because i am a contact hitter. this clue doesn´t work for me. however, he sells it outhere like it is the cure-all-end all clue. go figure. truth is B.bonds knows what works for B.Bonds only. but you call this "talent". Well, i have a different word for it: bull.

if i am to improve, i am going to listen to the teachers ofthis game. people that have the first hand experience by working with thousands of players through the years. people on this site and other internet sites. they are used to analysing players so probably know better. sure, i am going to have to deal with a bunch of mambo jambo but i sure will reduce my learning curve. so there.

have a nice day

toti

quote:

---

on the other hand, i would never ever pay attention to a "natural" giving advice. they dont have a clue as to what they do with their body, let alone being able to teach anything-most are retards with no education i always listen to our "whiz" kids in our team, ex-minor leaguers or whatever balloney sandwich league they sprung from, giving "advice" to everybody.

---

Does anyone want to listen to someone with total disregard for professional baseball players. Maybe all ex players are not the best teachers but they were players. I would describe Ted Williams a "natural". For all those that didn't see him and still follow his every word Ted Williams was a dead pull hitter. Maybe hit one or two balls in a year to the left side of the infield. Defense would play him with 5 players on the pull side of second base and he still pulled everything. Hit over 400 one year doing it.

quote:

quote:

---

I would describe Ted Williams a "natural".

---

I'm not sure that Ted Williams would describe himself as a "natural". After reading his book I am inclined to believe that he thought himself more of a "student". JMO

Also, I don't follow your point about "disregard for professional baseball players" and "Ted Williams was a dead pull hitter". What does one have to do with the other?

Ross.

toti,

I had two senior "level swing guys" last year. After practice I asked them both to stay for a while.
I set up a tee in the lowest setting. I said" hit me a line drive up the middle" off that tee. Neither could begin to do it.

Jemaz,
To answer to your "bug" question ... no, no and no again.

I tried to edit a typo in a post with several smileys and it seems to have killed the page. I'm hoping adding this message will clear it up.

Way to go CADad... You just can't leave things alone can you?

hi swingbuster

way to go swing buster. and while you are at it, tell them to swing with their hands only and not use the legs and see how far the ball travels off the tea.

for the record, i have nothing against pros. i have something against pros that want to teach balloney and they know they cant. i am against a pro, taking his credibility, to go and spread ill advice among clueless amateurs like he was giving candy. giving advice with no basis except your biased mental feel and perceptions.

i think Epstein is a great teacher that played the game. nothing wrong with that. he has limitations like anybodyelse. he has studied the game and drawn conclusions. ok with me. i respect other internet gurus too because they take the time to explain what they think and back it up with research.

still for me the best combo by far is ex-pro player-good teacher. they have a feel for the game as well as teaching skills.

most of the ex-minor leaguers or pros i have met, dont work half nearly as hard on their skills as me. and they get paid for playing. they just go out there and play. if they suck, they come up with a excuse or simply brush it off as bad luck. that´s all they do. they show little responsibility or are not generally very motivated or dont respect this game at all. they complain from the bus to the field and NEVER, NEVER talk about mechanics or baseball. they rather talk about last night chicks or something stupid. i never ever heard any serious discussion about mechanics in any of my bus trips. sometimes they look at me reading the posts and wonder what the hell i am doing. they learned one swing and they stick to it for the rest of their baseball career. it is true they dont think too much about the game. so, all in all, i think listening to guys like that is not going to put your kids through college with a baseball schollarship. that´s for sure. i only improved my batting average and as a hitter when i started roaming around these forums.

bye

toti

I had the ear of a Southeastern League Pro Player two tears ago. Great SS bad bat. We talked a while and we both hit a few balls off a tee. When I broke it down for him he said, " I wasted four years of college playing time" . Nobody ever told me that".

Happens more than people would believe.

swingbuster,

You didn't throw out your back after hitting those balls did you?

Jason...no... backs fine. Neck kills me though.

hi swing buster

i lost 7 years of my amateur career for not being able to hit a baseball. any time a stronger bat came around i was benched miserably. tha´s why i get so irritated with this kind of "talent" thing. i have benched a couple of these "talents" lately. no picnic for the ego.

thanks
toti

Guys,

Experience helps but sometimes the more experience someone has the less open minded they are. I think being a good teacher of the game requires an open mind, flexiblity, creativity, and patience. I think really good players may have a harder time understanding how difficult it may be for the average little league or high school player to translate concepts to actions. In that case patience can really be an issue. This reminds me of college at University of Illinois, in most cases classes were Lectured by Professors and taught by TA's. In the majority of cases, the decorated, published, tenured Profs were out-taught by first year grad students who's knowledge couldn't touch the profs. A good instructor can find ways to translate these concepts to the simplest form for their students to avoid excess mental "clutter".

Very well said JimD45!