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Here is the info about this years Veterans ballot.

Ten former players and baseball executives will get one more chance at the Hall of Fame this winter, coming up for consideration on the Veterans' Committee ballot that was released. The ten figures up for consideration are:

Ken Boyer
Minnie Minoso
Tony Oliva
Jim Kaat
Allie Reynolds
Luis Tiant
Charles Finley
Buzzie Bavasi
Gil Hodges
Ron Santo

In the past the Veteran's Committee of the Hall of Fame might seem like a shadowy bunch of old-timers, but the 16-member committee is made upmostly of people you've heard of:

Hall-of-Famers-

Hank Aaron
Al Kaline
Ralph Kiner
Tommy Lasorda
Juan Marichal
Brooks Robinson
Don Sutton
Billy Williams

Executives-

Paul Beeston
Bill DeWitt
Roland Hemond
Gene Michael
Al Rosen

Media-

Dick Kaegel
Jack O'Connell
Dave Van Dyck

And of those 16 people, 12 will need to vote for a player or executive for them to be inducted into the Hall of Fame. Any opinions on who might deserve to get in?
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Birdman,

For the sake of arguement, I have to admit my first thought was NONE from the list of players. IMHO nobody on that list was a dominant player in their respective era. They are all very good players, and had very good careers.....but HOF not so much. Nobody is knocking me down at the moment.

With that said, there are a couple sentimental favorites that may get the nod including Kaat, Tiant or Santo. Has the HOF become sentimental? I hope not.
quote:
Originally posted by fenwaysouth:
Birdman,

For the sake of arguement, I have to admit my first thought was NONE from the list of players. IMHO nobody on that list was a dominant player in their respective era. They are all very good players, and had very good careers.....but HOF not so much. Nobody is knocking me down at the moment.

With that said, there are a couple sentimental favorites that may get the nod including Kaat, Tiant or Santo. Has the HOF become sentimental? I hope not.

That was my original thought as well, but while Jim Kaat may be a bit of an "accumulator" (ie. Don Sutton) I still think he deserves to get in. If somebody else would get in, it wouldn't be the first time sentiment played a role in the HOF veterans committee.

In this area of the county a big sentimental player is Gil Hodges. Unfortunately, IMO his numbers just don't add up, even if you include his days of managing the miracle Mets.
Last edited by birdman14
Personally, I think Kaat has a legitimate case. Yes longevity had something to do with the counting stats, much like Blyleven, but the fact they were able to perform at that level for so long I think is a valid consideration.

My first position was third base, Boyer and Santo hold special places in my childhood memories because of that. Each had a couple great years, but third base is the snake bit position for the HOF. Olivia had a couple of just monster years, if the rest of the career could have been maintained closer to that level than it was, I think he would have had a chance, but not now.
I think Santo is the most obvious. I'd probably lean toward Kaat and Tiant next. Both pitchers are a fair bit below what the average HoF starting pitcher has been, but have some good credible arguments for inclusion nevertheless. Minoso probably has a shot, but IMO needs a bit of a boost for what he could have done if he hadn't been denied the chance to play earlier, and I'm not sure 12 of 16 will believe in that "boost."

Of the executives, I wouldn't be all that surprised to see Finley get in, except he ****ed off a lot of people along the way.
I have decided to pick the three players I most feel merit induction into the Hall of Fame and truthfully as someone mentioned, my third choice is more of an accumulator than a great player.

My first choice would surprisingly be Minny Minoso who played from 1949 through 1964, with publicity appearances in 1976 and 1980. Minoso's ML career is not super long but he accomplished a lot in that time. The argument that he can't make it because he played part time in the old Negro leagues and not enough in the ML's does not stand up because the Hall has already elected numerous black players who didn't play in the ML at all and shouldn't penalize a player who was a star in both for a considerable time. I don't think modern fans realize how good an overall player Minoso was in the context of his time. Really impressive was his lifetime .848 OPS. This is impressive in any era.

Despite collecting "only" 1963 hits, he led the league in hits once, triples three times, stolen bases three times, doubles once and HBP an incredible 10 times. His lifetime average was .300 on the button until an injury plague final full season and small parts of others knocked it down to .298. He scored 100 five times but over 89 RS in a season ten times. He batted in 100 RBI's four times. He also won three Gold Gloves as a left fielder. All accounts of that time list him as an incredibly exciting player who batted third or leadoff on his teams. He ended up with 1136 RS and 1023 RBIs as well as 201 SB's and 186 HRs. He accomplished all this playing in an era when hitting was not at its highest levels by any means.

My second choice and its a close second at that is Ron Santo. There is a tendency to lump Ken Boyer and Santo together but Santo was clearly the superior player offensively and they were both Gold Glove quality third basemen. This is not meant to downgrade Boyer as he was a fine player, even an MVP once but I feel Santo is the more worthy of the two.

Third basemen are somewhat underrepresented in the Hall of Fame and Santo's numbers would be even more impressive if he just wouldn't of chosen to play almost all his career in the worst era for hitters since the early 1900's. Santo compiled 2254 hits with 1138 RS as well as being one of the leading RBI guys of the 1960's with 1331. He knocked in 100 or more four times with 83 or more for eleven consecutive years, most of the time over 90(eight times). He hit over .300 four times and led in BB's four times on top of this. So he accumulated a nice OPS for this time with an .826. His 342 HRs is nothing to sneeze at during these times and for a third baseman. Add in his five gold gloves and you are talking about a very durable and consistant player for a twelve or thirteen year period. I know for a fact during those years he was a big run producer who is also hurt by the fact that the Cubs couldn't quite get to the World Series losing out to the Mets in 1969 in a famous race.

My third choice would be Jim Kaat whose 283 wins is his best arguement although he did win twenty or more games three times and had six seasons of seventeen or better. He pitched 31 shutouts and 180 complete games which dwarf modern numbers due to a change in the way starters are used. The argument against Kaat could include that he wasn't a great strikeout pitcher and didn't lead the league in much of anything. His 3.31 ERA was rather pedestrian in the era in which he pitched from 1959 to 1983. He also had 237 losses and a 1-2 World Series record. He did win numerous Gold Gloves as one of the finest fielding pitchers ever. One last thing against him was his nickname "Kitty Kaat". That really hurt! Smile
Last edited by Three Bagger
IMHO Santo's 5 Gold Gloves put him in the conversation. But is 5 Gold Gloves worthy of HOF in era where 3rd basemen weren't exactly tearing it up at the plate? I guess that is for the veteran HOFers to decide. The All-Star thing doesn't carry nearly as much weight for me. It tells me that he was popular and people knew who he was. I agree with Three Bagger that Santo is more worthy than Boyer who had a very good career too. What is most interesting about this discussion is everyone's definition of HOF is different, and sometimes different criteria get applied to certain eras in baseball.
Its kind of hard to compare players from the era that Santo played in, to those of today. 12" mounds, the dominant pitchers of that time frame, and the lack of anything resembling weight lifting vs. the built up players of today (both natural and enhanced) makes it very difficult.

During that time frame Santo was probably considered one of the best 3B. Was he HOF? No matter how much I would like to see him in, I think he comes up just a bit short.

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