can a pitch actually hit home plate and be considered in the strike zone?
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
No.
thanks...which rule do you refer to?
The definition of a strike and the rule of common sense.
Think of the trajectory required for a pitch to pass through the strike zone (the bottom of which is approximately 1.5-2 feet above the plate) and hit the plate. Even in slow-pitch softball, a pitch that hits the plate is a ball.
Think of the trajectory required for a pitch to pass through the strike zone (the bottom of which is approximately 1.5-2 feet above the plate) and hit the plate. Even in slow-pitch softball, a pitch that hits the plate is a ball.
There is no rule that says it can't be so, but as a matter of physics it cannot be so.
That would be the nastiest breaking pitch of all time, that's for sure!
That would be the nastiest breaking pitch of all time, that's for sure!
I've played baseball and managed many years so I totally agree with you. A PU told me it can be a strike if a small youth player is up in the box and the trajectory has the ball above the knees since the plate is considered part of the strike zone (see below). I think he's wrong.
A STRIKE is a legal pitch when so called by the umpire, which—
(b) Is not struck at, if any part of the ball passes through any part of the strike zone
The STRIKE ZONE is that area over home plate the upper limit of which is ...
A STRIKE is a legal pitch when so called by the umpire, which—
(b) Is not struck at, if any part of the ball passes through any part of the strike zone
The STRIKE ZONE is that area over home plate the upper limit of which is ...
This is one of those occasions where neither physics, batter size, or the price of popcorn need to be considered.
Never call a ball that hits home plate a strike and you will never be wrong!
Never call a ball that hits home plate a strike and you will never be wrong!
RULE 2.0
A called strike cannot hit the ground and then go thru the strike zone. Baseball rule section 2.00 Definitions of Terms: A ball is a pitch which does not enter the strike zone in flight and is not struck at by the batter. If the pitch touches the ground and bounces through the strike zone it is a "ball". If such a pitch touches the batter, he shall be awarded first base. If the batter swings at such a pitch after two strikes, the ball cannot be caught, for the purposes of rule 6.05 (c) and 6.09 (b). If the batter hits such a pitch, the ensuing action shall be the same as if he hit the ball in flight.
A called strike cannot hit the ground and then go thru the strike zone. Baseball rule section 2.00 Definitions of Terms: A ball is a pitch which does not enter the strike zone in flight and is not struck at by the batter. If the pitch touches the ground and bounces through the strike zone it is a "ball". If such a pitch touches the batter, he shall be awarded first base. If the batter swings at such a pitch after two strikes, the ball cannot be caught, for the purposes of rule 6.05 (c) and 6.09 (b). If the batter hits such a pitch, the ensuing action shall be the same as if he hit the ball in flight.
quote:Originally posted by Outdoorlover:
RULE 2.0
A called strike cannot hit the ground and then go thru the strike zone. Baseball rule section 2.00 Definitions of Terms: A ball is a pitch which does not enter the strike zone in flight and is not struck at by the batter. If the pitch touches the ground and bounces through the strike zone it is a "ball".
The question isn't that the pitch hits in front of the plate but rather...is the plate part of the strike zone? My read of the definitions is yes, it is. I totally agree that physics make it highly unlikely ...but THEORETICALLY a pitch could cross the knees and hit the plate and be a strike. I know of no rule that says " A pitch that hits the plate is a ball"
quote:Originally posted by drfanman:
THEORETICALLY a pitch could cross the knees and hit the plate and be a strike. I know of no rule that says " A pitch that hits the plate is a ball"
You are correct - there is no rule that says a pitch that hits the plate is a ball. But there is a rule that says it's not a strike unless so called by the umpire, and I'm not calling that pitch a strike, ever.
quote:Originally posted by drfanman:
...but THEORETICALLY a pitch could cross the knees and hit the plate and be a strike.
I'd need video proof.
On average the knees are between 20 and 24 inches above the plate. A foward moving pitched ball that hit the front of the plate at that height and then dropped quickly and far enough to hit the plate before traveling the 17 inch length of the plate would have to break farther and faster than any ML breaking ball I've seen.
quote:Originally posted by Jimmy03:quote:Originally posted by drfanman:
...but THEORETICALLY a pitch could cross the knees and hit the plate and be a strike.
I'd need video proof.
On average the knees are between 20 and 24 inches above the plate. A foward moving pitched ball that hit the front of the plate at that height and then dropped quickly and far enough to hit the plate before traveling the 17 inch length of the plate would have to break farther and faster than any ML breaking ball I've seen.
Still stuck on the physics....but your answer suggests that you agree the plate is part of the strike zone.
The plate would be part of the strike zone only with a double-amputee at the knee.
quote:Originally posted by dash_riprock:
The plate would be part of the strike zone only with a double-amputee at the knee.
The strike zone is above the plate.......the NFHS definition of the strike zone is:
The strike zone is measured from the knees to a spot halfway betweent eh batter's shoulders and his waistline.
the knees are above the plate......unless you are an amputee as in dash's response...
quote:Originally posted by drfanman:quote:Originally posted by Jimmy03:quote:Originally posted by drfanman:
...but THEORETICALLY a pitch could cross the knees and hit the plate and be a strike.
I'd need video proof.
On average the knees are between 20 and 24 inches above the plate. A foward moving pitched ball that hit the front of the plate at that height and then dropped quickly and far enough to hit the plate before traveling the 17 inch length of the plate would have to break farther and faster than any ML breaking ball I've seen.
Still stuck on the physics....but your answer suggests that you agree the plate is part of the strike zone.
How on earth you ever came to that concluson is beyond me. However, allow me to correct your misguided misinterpretation of my post. I do not now and never have considered the plate to be part of the strike zone.
quote:Originally posted by Jimmy03:quote:Originally posted by drfanman:quote:Originally posted by Jimmy03:quote:Originally posted by drfanman:
...but THEORETICALLY a pitch could cross the knees and hit the plate and be a strike.
I'd need video proof.
On average the knees are between 20 and 24 inches above the plate. A foward moving pitched ball that hit the front of the plate at that height and then dropped quickly and far enough to hit the plate before traveling the 17 inch length of the plate would have to break farther and faster than any ML breaking ball I've seen.
Still stuck on the physics....but your answer suggests that you agree the plate is part of the strike zone.
How on earth you ever came to that concluson is beyond me. However, allow me to correct your misguided misinterpretation of my post. I do not now and never have considered the plate to be part of the strike zone.
how about for a double amputee in the front of the box?
quote:Originally posted by drfanman:quote:Originally posted by Jimmy03:quote:Originally posted by drfanman:quote:Originally posted by Jimmy03:quote:Originally posted by drfanman:
...but THEORETICALLY a pitch could cross the knees and hit the plate and be a strike.
I'd need video proof.
On average the knees are between 20 and 24 inches above the plate. A foward moving pitched ball that hit the front of the plate at that height and then dropped quickly and far enough to hit the plate before traveling the 17 inch length of the plate would have to break farther and faster than any ML breaking ball I've seen.
Still stuck on the physics....but your answer suggests that you agree the plate is part of the strike zone.
How on earth you ever came to that concluson is beyond me. However, allow me to correct your misguided misinterpretation of my post. I do not now and never have considered the plate to be part of the strike zone.
how about for a double amputee in the front of the box?
Day game or night game?
All I can tell you is if you have a ball bounce on the plate and you call it a strike, you will have your butt handed to you and rightfully so. This is not and will never be a strike.
quote:Originally posted by Michael S. Taylor:
All I can tell you is if you have a ball bounce on the plate and you call it a strike, you will have your butt handed to you and rightfully so. This is not and will never be a strike.
I've been half-kidding here. I'm just saying that I wish the rule was clearly written..."A pitch MUST pass the plate to be a strike" or "a pitch that hits the plate is a ball". Then when these knuckleheads call a strike I could point them to rule X. Now I'm stuck with explaining to them that my batter has flesh below the knees and his call was physically impossible.
You do have a rule. A strike has to pass through the zone in flight. If it hits the plate, it doesn't meet the definition.
While I'd never call a pitch that hits the plate a strike, the FED definition of the strike zone (as listed by piaa_ump) mentions the hitter's body defining the strike zone, not the plate.
So in little league, with a batter way up in the box, and his knees 1 foot off the ground, a curve ball could cross the (his) strike zone, hit the dirt somewhere near the plate, and be a strike, since it bounced after crossing the zone.
So in little league, with a batter way up in the box, and his knees 1 foot off the ground, a curve ball could cross the (his) strike zone, hit the dirt somewhere near the plate, and be a strike, since it bounced after crossing the zone.
The batter's position in the box has no bearing on the strike zone. In all codes, the strike zone definition begins with "the area (or space) over the plate..." The batter's body only defines the vertical limits of the zone (regardless of where he stands), the plate defines the rest of it.
quote:Originally posted by dash_riprock:
The batter's position in the box has no bearing on the strike zone. In all codes, the strike zone definition begins with "the area (or space) over the plate..." The batter's body only defines the vertical limits of the zone (regardless of where he stands), the plate defines the rest of it.
Now that's a helpful explanation. The strike zone is a rectangular prism located over the plate from the knees to torso. By that definition, there is NO possible way the plate could be part of the strike zone. Thanks.
It's confusing to me that the rule book uses the plate and the hitter's body for the strike zone. I'll ask this:
If in a youth league, the kid is way up in the box, the curveball goes waist high right through the batter's vertical portion of the strike zone, but then hits the plate, you have to call it a ball?
That seems to be the rulebook definition, but lacks some common sense.
If in a youth league, the kid is way up in the box, the curveball goes waist high right through the batter's vertical portion of the strike zone, but then hits the plate, you have to call it a ball?
That seems to be the rulebook definition, but lacks some common sense.
quote:Originally posted by Alex7:
If in a youth league, the kid is way up in the box, the curveball goes waist high right through the batter's vertical portion of the strike zone, but then hits the plate, you have to call it a ball?
The batter's vertical portion? What the heck is that? The strike zone begins at the plate, all codes.
Now if a pitch passes the batter's waist and still hits the plate, I'd have to call it a miracle.
quote:Originally posted by drfanman:
The strike zone is a rectangular prism located over the plate...
Make that pentagonal prism.
No need to call it a mircale, Jimmy. It's just called starting your umpire journey in the land of 12-year olds throwing lob pitches.
Oh, and having 4'10" hitters whose knees are less than a foot off the ground.
All I asked is if you call it a strike or a ball.
Oh, and having 4'10" hitters whose knees are less than a foot off the ground.
All I asked is if you call it a strike or a ball.
quote:Originally posted by Alex7:
No need to call it a mircale, Jimmy. It's just called starting your umpire journey in the land of 12-year olds throwing lob pitches.
Oh, and having 4'10" hitters whose knees are less than a foot off the ground.
All I asked is if you call it a strike or a ball.
Strikes do not hit the plate.
Playing adult softball, an umpire call me out on strikes with a pitch that was 2Ft. over my head.
Full count, as the pitch left the pitchers hand you can clearly tell that the pitch was going to come in extremely high, just before the pitch reached home plate I began walking toward 1st, next I hear strike. I was dumfounded, I asked why a strike - he replied that I stepped out of the box and now the strike zone is from the ground to eternity. All I could do was laugh at his dumb A$$ and walk away.
What an idiot he was.
So according to that umpire, if a ball hits the plate this can be called a strike.
Full count, as the pitch left the pitchers hand you can clearly tell that the pitch was going to come in extremely high, just before the pitch reached home plate I began walking toward 1st, next I hear strike. I was dumfounded, I asked why a strike - he replied that I stepped out of the box and now the strike zone is from the ground to eternity. All I could do was laugh at his dumb A$$ and walk away.
What an idiot he was.
So according to that umpire, if a ball hits the plate this can be called a strike.
quote:Originally posted by Neilfish:
Playing adult softball,
'nuff said.
quote:All I could do was laugh at his dumb A$$ and walk away.
What an idiot he was.
I see that you're new.
Despite the opinion of a couple of coaches, this portion of the site is not really intended for umpire abuse. Feel free to continue doing that on the field.
This thread needs to end. In big boy baseball, a pitch coming to the plate at 75-85 mph could never hit the plate and be called a strike. With the little guys, I guess if the arc was high enough, it could fall through the zone and hit the plate, but that is the umpire's judgement. I don't do ball at that level so I don't really care what you call. you have to live with it.
quote:Even in slow-pitch softball, a pitch that hits the plate is a ball.
After 8 years of umpiring softball I thought so too.
But joined up with an 50+ plus team this season, they use the "MAT", covers HP and straight back 2', any ball striking the MAT is a strike, with regards to legal delivery min and max arc of course.
Shoot they could call these from the stands..
Baseball could also be a strike, but it would involve a swing and a miss...