Home to 2nd/runner on 3rd

Ump should not grant time until the runner gets to first and stops there. If the runner keeps going then there's a play going on and he still should not give you time.

Btw. If you get a jag off coach that wants to run this. All you need to do is have your catcher throw the ball down to first after the walk. If the runner on third breaks for home your 1B can throw the ball home to the catcher. 

We don't run this play and I get a bit irritated by it but I'm curious as to what makes this a "jag off coach" move.  It serves much the same purpose as every offensive 1st - 3rd play.  Every coach in America has an offensive play for 1st - 3rd.

Sorry, I'm getting easily distracted today.  Back to the original question...

Jag off was probably a little harsh. We had a coach in our LL who thought this was the greatest play ever invented. Would run it evertime he played a weaker team. Guess he left a bad taste in my mouth. 

Sounds like an umpire mistake. He shouldn't have granted time until the batter reached 1st base and stopped.  If the opposing coach wanted to yell at anyone it should be the ump.

Totally agree there... hate anything like that with young overmatched kids.

Here's where level of play comes in...

You generally won't see this at higher levels, which is why we grant time as soon as we know a conference is going to happen. At lower levels, take the advice of those here...wait until play has stopped until granting time for the trip.

I think 90% of coach/umpire headaches could be alleviated at HS and below if all parties concerned would realize that there's a different type of play there. It also may explain why this play would leave a bad taste in one's mouth upon first blush. At the lower levels, defenses aren't as good against runners, and coaches will exploit that using things that are against unwritten rules at other places, mostly because they also know that due to that imbalance, no lead is safe.

If you're a jag off coach that doesn't teach your defensive kids to focus after a walk, then I would run this on you.

In high school (or above)?  You'll be lucky if some player isn't sporting a bruise whether from HBP or pickoff throw to base that lands in the ribs when the player dives back to the base.

It's seen more often at lower levels because the players run better than they throw and catch.

It's seen less often at the higher levels because the opposite is true.

That said, wasn't there some play in the current year MLB playoffs where someone was forced to second on a walk, and just kept going to third catching the defense asleep?

An umpire at the higher levels will be viewed as an OOO by *both* teams if he forces a team to "wait until the runner reaches first" all the time before granting a TO -- the umpire needs to read the situation.

I was so proud of my sons team for squashing that very play this past weekend with a perfectly executed rundown. The third base coach was jumping up and down screaming trying to distract our defense. The kid trying to steal second was tagged out before the runner on third got half way to home.

High school. And if your asking high school kids to drill each other at the plate or on pickoffs you're more than a "jag off."

I'm not talking about running it against a helpless or overmatched little league team. If you're kids can't focus that's you're problem. Delay steal, bunt for a hit when IF is back, take an extra 90 feet on lazy return throws from catcher. It's all fair game. Lazy defense is your problem.

Careful.

I don't have to ask - I don't coach. But I also know from experience at the plate and on the bases that kids at that age can and will take care business. I've seen it. Testosterone is a powerful thing. So far this was primarily about the run to second after a walk. Of course it's all situational - I'm fully aware...  And yes, you listed a number of other situations...  and you indicate you do it when a team is capable, but just lazy. I get it - I'm aware. Do you do the same with a 10+ run lead?  I would guess not as I'll assume you're aware.

BTW: CmassRHPDad - if the coach was trying to distract the defense and the umpire judges it that way, then there are a couple of solutions for that including sending the coach to the dugout for the rest of the game or just sending him to the parking lot. My tolerance for paperwork probably sends him to the dugout, but I think it'd be one of those had to be there type scenarios... Late in the game, dump him, do the paperwork, and hope he'll be suspended for the next one...

Matt13 - it's cool - I don't take offense to ironhorse's comments. I can certainly see how perhaps my words were misinterpreted. I wasn't advocating throwing at a player, I was merely pointing out I've seen it happen.

noumpere,

Curious about your mechanics and verbals in this situation.

In lower level rec games, I do insist the coach wait until the runner reaches first before granting time.

With older, better players, if the coach already has momentum toward the mound when he requests time and it would be awkward to have him abruptly stop just as he's reaching the foul line, I generally just make eye contact and nod, then wait to make the signal, with either a sotto voce "Time!" or no verbal at all, when the runner reaches the base. 

Does that keep me out of the OOO category?

I don't do many (or any) lower level rec games, but yes, I think this keeps you out of the category.