Hot Stove

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$ 243,000,000!

I think you left off a few rosy. It should be...


$243,000,000!!!!

What's this I hear about a recession? Spend, spend spend. When is the MLB bubble gonna burst?

Don't see many of those out of work Auto workers going to many games. Maybe they can get a loan for that...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by nc42dad:
What's this I hear about a recession? Spend, spend spend. When is the MLB bubble gonna burst?

Maybe I'm a glass half empty guy too often, but I think that the entire pro sports bubble is gonna burst. Don't laugh, but it's happening in NASCAR with sponsors running away, teams trying to merge and others just closing shop. Next season they've eliminated practice! F1, the most expensive sport in the world just had Honda pull out entirely. I cannot believe that we will see another new attendance record in MLB this year, and I can't believe that all those ridiculously priced new seats in Yankee Stadium and Citi Field will be sold out. Many of the folks who would occupy those seats no longer have jobs.

Very convincing.

I think I hear in MLB that something like 20% of the players get 80% of the salary money. The "poor" guys numbered 10-25 on the rosters will probably "suffer" some... Pretty obvious the stars are still going to get the big money.

Us poor fools who pay for the tickets are ALL going to suffer. Maybe if my kid ever makes it big I can get some free tickets to MLB games, otherwise it is Kane Co. Cougars & Minor League baseball!

quote:

Originally posted by itsrosy:
When is the MLB bubble gonna burst?

A very wise old guy told me once, "every barrel has a bottom".

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quote:

Originally posted by CPLZ:
A very wise old guy told me once, "every barrel has a bottom".

My barrel did have a bottom too...I use it now as a lid to keep the bill collectors in their hole!

I see about 120 games for free each summer. Between high school fall and summer and travel ball, I get plenty of baseball.
Great seats, plenty of peanuts. If I forget to buy them, there is always another parent willing to share.

Nice present for those humble Yankee fans, I guess. $62M to 3 players. Does anyone think like I do, that by signing all these free agents and literally trying to buy the pennant and WS, that somehow it detracts from what others do by having their own players come up through the ranks? Maybe you just learn to love anyone who wears your team's uniform.

Rosy, those days are over sad to say. I guess one of the things about The Rays last season was that they were such home-grown team. If they didn't play in that dome, they would have had it all.

The Yankees probably are buying a championship, and I think it isn't good for baseball that they are in a class by themselves in terms of ability to pay players. After that you have Red Sox, Angels, Mets, Cubs, Dodgers and maybe a couple of other teams who will spend big bucks. The rest of the teams are second class (or worse) citizens who really have to catch lightening in a bottle to have a chance.

New Yorkers would love anyone if they could win with them.

I'll play devil's advocate. What was the Yankee payroll last year? year before? & the last time they won a World Series was what year?

IMO, they are spending the money cause they are opening a new stadium & when you sell tickets for $2500 you better have some stars there for those people to watch.

nc

No doubt about it, The Yankees have spent poorly at times and maybe that is because they throw money around so easily. I still think it isn't good for the game overall that most franchises have zero chance of winning The WS.

And you are right about spending money from and for their new stadium, but their revenue has been much higher than other teams all along.

FBD-

It really has to tick off GMs around the league when guys sign for this kind of money. The Pirates, Marlins, Royals will never have access to this kind of revenue to ever compete with this kind of spending.....

I'm with you, lets see what happens when revenues go down this summer.

Before I put santa's gifts under the tree, revenue does not control post season participation small market teams (phillies, tampa) are cornering the market.

Been watching channel 410 on Comcast. It is the new MLB network. Beginning on Jan 1, it will be baseball every day/night 24/7. Harold Reynolds is back and I think that it will be a great success. Check it out as now they're showing some great old clips. Good stuff.

Playball, Usually you are right on target, but calling Philadelphia a small market teamis untrue. The top ten American TV markets are found below.

New York City, New York
Los Angeles, California
Chicago, Illinois
San Francisco, California
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Dallas/Fort Worth, Texas
Washington, District of Columbia
Boston, Massachusetts
Miami, Florida
Detroit, Michigan

Tampa is 19.

You can't judge a teams market value strictly on TV. Have you ever been to a Marlin game in Miami? I think the Kane County Cougars draw better than the Marlins.

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I would certainly agree with GBS25.

You be the judge.





A drawing by the Kane County Cougars.



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And a drawing by the Marlins.

What did I tell ya!

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GB25, Are you saying that the Phillies are a small market team? What would make them a small market team?

The problem with the Marlins attendance is they play in a football stadium, it rains all the time, and who wants to sit out in the sun when it is 94 degrees and 80% humidity. Actually, their TV ratings are very high & they have a big following but it does not transfer into attendance at the park. Miami is considered a big market. I'm sure Phillie is very similar.

I believe, that if you add up all the Marlins minor league affiliates (low A, A, high A, AA, AAA) they outdraw the MLB team. I remember watching some of their current/formers when they played at Kane Co.

Tampa has an indoor stadium and their attendance is pretty bad. Their TV ratings are not very good though. The Yankees/Cubs/Mets have the best of both worlds...attendance & TV rating, thus, the giant payrolls.

It really depends on what your definition of a small market team is. I'm sure it's different for everyone. For me it has more to do with payroll, attendance and that sort of thing. Lets look at the word marketing. Forget about who is good or bad and focus on attendance, payroll, advertisement expenditures, and all that sort of stuff. Maybe it's not fair to call anyone small market in this day in age but clearly the Yankees, Red Sox, and lately the Cubs and Tigers have outspent most of the other teams. Forgive me if I forgot someone. I think TV is part of that but everyone has some sort of TV deal out there. I agree with Playball though that all this spending has not translated to winning championships for all these teams but it has brought them consistent success lately. I think its a tribute to the great game of baseball that teams like the Diamonbacks, Rockies, and Rays have won with young (Hungry) players. The Twins have made a living of doing this also. If you become a premodonna you're outta here. They just replace you with another young hungry player. In the end the game itself takes care of the competitve balance. How many people are sold that the Yankees will win the world series next year. I know I'm not. The Phillies traditionally have not had the huge payroll these other teams have had. It's a credit to them that they won a world championship last year. As for the Marlins, their TV success will not keep them in Miami unless they can find a way to put fannies in the seats. That's where the biggest revenue comes from. Whether that's a new stadium or moving the team I don't know but they seem to have a fire sale of their players every fall to make ends meet.
You are correct about the weather in southwest fla. though. It rains every afternoon about 2pm in the summer and sometimes lasts all day. Sorry for the long email.

IMO the "spending" pretty much translates into "competing." This is the entertainment business & although "winning" is important to the fans/owners it really is about putting a competitive team out there. The Yankees do it with "star-power" and it puts fans in the seats & gets them big TV/radio deals. The Rays/Marlins/Twins have to market themselves differently.

If the Yankees never win another World Series but come in second place for the rest of the century, they are still going to put people in the seats. People come to see their "stars." So does FOX/ESPN.

GB25, It appears from the following data, you are wrong. The Phillies are not now and were never a small market team. Whether it be measured by TV Market size or by payroll. Since 2004 the Phillies have been in the top 13 teams in size of payroll and were in the top 4 a couple of the years. Give them credit for winning the World Series. Winning regardless of payroll size is a major accomplishment. See the Data Below:


2004 MLB Payrolls
Team Payroll Average
N.Y. Yankees $182,835,513 $6,304,673
Boston 125,208,542 4,173,618
Anaheim 101,084,667 3,743,877
New York Mets 100,629,303 3,870,358
Philadelphia 93,219,167 3,452,562
Chicago Cubs 91,101,667 3,141,437

2005 Opening Day Payrolls

1. New York Yankees $205,938,439
2. Boston Red Sox $121,311,945
3. New York Mets $104,770,139
4. Philadelphia Phillies $95,337,908


2006 MLB Team Payrolls
Based Upon 2006 Season as of April 7, 2006
Rank Team Total Payroll
1 New York Yankees $194,663,079
2 Boston Red Sox $120,099,824
3 Los Angeles Angels $103,472,000
4 Chicago White Sox $102,750,667
5 New York Mets $101,084,963
6 Los Angeles Dodgers $98,447,187
7 Chicago Cubs $94,424,499
8 Houston Astros $92,551,503
9 Atlanta Braves $90,156,876
10 San Francisco Giants $90,056,419
11 St. Louis Cardinals $88,891,371
12 Philadelphia Phillies $88,273,333

2007 Opening Day Payrolls
Team Payroll
New York Yankees $ 189,639,045
Boston Red Sox $ 143,026,214
New York Mets $ 115,231,663
Los Angeles Angels $ 109,251,333
Chicago White Sox $ 108,671,833
Los Angeles Dodgers $ 108,454,524
Seattle Mariners $ 106,460,833
Chicago Cubs $ 99,670,332
Detroit Tigers $ 95,180,369
Baltimore Orioles $ 93,554,808
St. Louis Cardinals $ 90,286,823
San Francisco Giants $ 90,219,056
Philadelphia Phillies $ 89,428,213
2008 Opening Day Payrolls
Team Total Payroll
New York Yankees $ 209,081,577
New York Mets $ 137,793,376
Detroit Tigers $ 137,685,196
Boston Red Sox $ 133,390,035
Chicago White Sox $ 121,189,332
Los Angeles Angels $ 119,216,333
Los Angeles Dodgers $ 118,588,536
Chicago Cubs $ 118,345,833
Seattle Mariners $ 117,666,482
Atlanta Braves $ 102,365,683
St. Louis Cardinals $ 99,624,449
Philadelphia Phillies $ 98,269,880

First of all if you look back at my post youll see that I did give the Phillies credit for winning the world series as well as several other teams with good young players. I wouldnt call Philadelphia a small market team. But Im sorry I dont agree with you that they are a large market team. Certainly ranking 12th is not going to validate your argument. You seem to see all the teams as either large market or small market. I however think teams like the Phillies fall into the middle somewhere. OK upper middle? Look at your own numbers: 2 New Yorks, 2 LAs, 2 Chicagos, Detroit and Boston. Im not blastin on Philly i just dont think theyve gotten to the level of "stupid" yet. And those teams above with the exception of the white sox right now(who seem to be dumping salary) have continued to spend even more for the future. All the time the price of tickets will only be affordable for corporate america soon. Now ticket licenses for the big series? Blah! Ill watch the pro games on TV and go to HS, College, and minor league games. They hustle more anyway!!!!