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Hot Stove 2012

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P Prime91,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by bballdad2016:
Any thoughts on Pujols and Miami, i wonder how much he was offered?


What a coup it would be for the "Miami Marlins" to sign Pujols to play in their brand new stadium next year!

Getting him you would think would be a big draw for the Latin customer/fan base there? Can they and will they spend that much??? Would Albert go? If he wants safety and comfort he will stay in St. Louis. If he wants a challenge and if he feels he still has something to prove, he may very well move on and Florida would be the ultimate challenge!
Last edited by Prime9
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by birdman14:
How about Jonathan Papelbon to the Phillies? Do you think the Phillies where a bit motivated about losing in the first round of the playoffs?


Can't imagine Papelbon wearing any other uni but Boston's. It wasn't the pitching that hurt the Phillies, I guess this will help when the hitters go into slumps.
Oswalt is on his way out, wonder where he will go.

I think that Pujols is just shopping, the speculation that he may be actually older than he is has hurt, going to the 10 years that he wants in his contract. I am sure that in the end he will remain a redbird. I give the Cardinals credit for sticking to their original offer.
Last edited by TPM
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by floridafan:
I guess it is a sign of the times, but I just do not like the idea that a team will be put together with the intent of appealing to some particular racial or cultural demographic. Find the best players you can get and build a winning program.


I do agree with finding the best players, however
I don't have a problem with the first statement because here in south florida a particular culture drives the economy as it does in other areas of the country.

Besides, when you build a stadium where 80% of your neighbors are foreigners and have money to spend, why not use that to your advantage?
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
quote:
Originally posted by birdman14:
How about Jonathan Papelbon to the Phillies? Do you think the Phillies where a bit motivated about losing in the first round of the playoffs?
Papelbon isn't going to give the Phillies any more than Madsen gave them last year. A four year deal for a closer in his 30's is a risk. Papelbon is also a flyball pitcher. Balls fly out of CBP.

The Phillies have bigger needs than Papelbon. They need a shortstop. They need a utility player capable of playing 100 games between second and third. Utley and Polanco are in their 30's and injury prone. They need a left fielder.

I got the feeling from reading the fan's comments on philly.com people weren't pleased with the Papelbon signing.
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
quote:
Originally posted by floridafan:
I guess it is a sign of the times, but I just do not like the idea that a team will be put together with the intent of appealing to some particular racial or cultural demographic. Find the best players you can get and build a winning program.
Fans care more about winning than the ethnic makeup or hometown factor of the team. If I were Pujols, new stadium or not I would be concerned about the long term viability of baseball in Miami.
Three BaggerThree Bagger1,000+ posts
RJM, I've got to agree that tieing up $50 million in a reliever, even if he is a closer is not the smartest thing to do considering their other needs. Relievers are notorious for having up and down years although being in the NL and not the AL East may help Papelbon's numbers. The Phil's need to upgrade their offense as many of their main players are in the decline phase of their career already Utley, Rollins, Howard, Ibanez, etc. A lot of times a closer can be found for a fraction of that cost, just as Madsen was last year.
birdman14birdman141,000+ posts
I personally think the Phils don't need to worry too much about laying out cash these days. Madsen is exactly the type of closer who is potentially up and down. Papelbon pitching in the NL east will be dominant for many years to come (just like Rivera with the Yankees). Give the Phillies time, I think you will see them dealing with their other issues this off-season...
Last edited by birdman14
fenwaysouthfenwaysouth10,000+ posts
quote:
RJM said.....Papelbon isn't going to give the Phillies any more than Madsen gave them last year. A four year deal for a closer in his 30's is a risk. Papelbon is also a flyball pitcher. Balls fly out of CBP.


Exactly. Papelbon is a good pitcher that sometimes made me pull my hair out with his lack of variety and command in situations. He is a fly ball pitcher, no doubt. Paps made it clear over the last few years that it is about the money. The Red Sox will be gambling on Bard putting it together, and finding a setup man. Papelbon is not worth 4yr/$50M, but it isn't my money. I think it is a good gamble for the RedSox to put that money toward something they really need including starting pitcher, catcher, SS and RF.

Birdman - I don't think Papelbon will be "$50M dominant". That is starting pitcher money. BTW - I saw the Rams will be @ Richmond in mid-May. I can make it if son is not in conference championship (very wishful thinking). How about some good Virginia BBQ? ;-)
Last edited by fenwaysouth
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
Papelbon is more of a thrower than a pitcher. He doesn't set up hitters. He just brings it. When he came up and dominated he threw 98/99 mph. He now throws 94/95 mph. What happens to a thrower when he hits the low 90's? I believe Papelbon is worth the first half of the contract. The third and fourth year are a big risk. He'll be 34 in the third year.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by highheat15:
What's really weird is how the past two MLB Champions have had teams built on chemistry, not just who has the biggest payroll. Guys like Aubry Huff and Rafael Furcal. It's kind of disappointing to see the Phillies and Red Sox now becoming the Yankees (of course without the rings).


It's about chemistry. Guys like Huff and Furcal who at one time were considered at one point in their careers the best at their position, help to contribute with their experience. These guys are the kind that are not afraid to share their wisdom, and help in making the younger less experienced aware of what it takes to win a championship. It's pretty hard to get all the pieces to fit, but when you do, it usually has positive results.
Bulldog 19Bulldog 195,000+ posts
The Marlins are just trying to stir up excitement regardless of whether Pujols signs or not, I'll bet there's been an increase in (new) uniforms being sold and people buying tickets simply because Pujols has visited.

Pujols has to take a few trips. He has to force teams to put up some bids so that he can increase his price tag....

I think the Cardinals have made an interesting move with hiring Mike Matheny. I'm not sure what to think about it really.. I like him, but we'll see!
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by Prime9:
Hiring Matheny seems like a huge risk to me. Replacing a near legendary Coach with one of their guys, but one who has NO coaching experience?

So you hand this Industry plum job to a guy and allowing "on the job training" to prepare him for replacing your future Hall of Fame Manager. WOW.


Matheny, former cardinal who worked under LaRussa, familiar with the system as a catcher and fans for 4 years, has been a special assistant to the GM for a number of years, along with instructor in spring training. Since TLR told them in august he would be leaving, I am going to assume that he may have had some input as to who would take over when he left. Extremely intelligent, like LaRussa, I could see how that would work for him, and I am going to assume that the coaching staff stays in tact for one more year, so the transition for him would be an easier task, not so much pressure to be champions again so soon as teams hardly ever repeat.
H highheat15100+ posts
It definitely is a risk, but I got a feeling that the negative side of the risk is not that big. The clubhouse is not filled with primadonnas (thank you for getting Rasmus out of there) and Matheny is very intelligent baseball wise.

TPM: Sorry if my sarcasm wasn't obvious enough. What I was trying to say is that its kind of ridiculous that the Red Sox and Phillies are now trying to buy the best roster they can, whereas the Giants and Cardinals just managed to win championships off of great chemistry. Baseball isn't about who has the most talent (although it definitely helps), alot of it comes down to how well a teams plays together.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by fenwaysouth:
TPM,

Everything I've heard and read about Metheny is that he is sharp guy. Former catchers make good managers. I can't help but wonder if there is a Pujol's angle here? Is Metheny bringing something to the table here that will help the Cardinals keep Pujols. Any insight?


Actually the 3B coach who interviewed is very close to AP. I don't think the manager has anything to do with it, economics does.

I didn't know much about him, so I did some research and I understand he was an incredible catcher, leader on the team, I think that quality got him the job over others than have not managed within the system.

The cardinals are very precise in their philosophy, which is basically old school and deep in tradition. I personally think they have been preparing him for the job,if it works the GM (who I like) and who has taken a beating over the years will be considered a genius.
Last edited by TPM
P Prime91,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by TPM:
quote:
Originally posted by Prime9:
Hiring Matheny seems like a huge risk to me. Replacing a near legendary Coach with one of their guys, but one who has NO coaching experience?

So you hand this Industry plum job to a guy and allowing "on the job training" to prepare him for replacing your future Hall of Fame Manager. WOW.


Matheny, former cardinal who worked under LaRussa, familiar with the system as a catcher and fans for 4 years, has been a special assistant to the GM for a number of years, along with instructor in spring training. Since TLR told them in august he would be leaving, I am going to assume that he may have had some input as to who would take over when he left. Extremely intelligent, like LaRussa, I could see how that would work for him, and I am going to assume that the coaching staff stays in tact for one more year, so the transition for him would be an easier task, not so much pressure to be champions again so soon as teams hardly ever repeat.


I understand what you are saying and certainly you have great insight into their organization. I liked Matheny as player and certainly he has had tremendous baseball experiences to build upon as a manager.

The thing that bothers me about a basically untested guy, is that it makes it appear that the Cardinals are saying "that the Manager really isn't that important, experience doesn't matter." I.E, we Cardinals think the "organization" (scouts, minor league coaches, coaching staff, GM) made LaRussa what he is and we can do the same job and get the same results with Matheny.

Personally, I think the Coach matters a whole bunch.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out long term.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by Prime9:
quote:
Originally posted by TPM:
quote:
Originally posted by Prime9:
Hiring Matheny seems like a huge risk to me. Replacing a near legendary Coach with one of their guys, but one who has NO coaching experience?

So you hand this Industry plum job to a guy and allowing "on the job training" to prepare him for replacing your future Hall of Fame Manager. WOW.


Matheny, former cardinal who worked under LaRussa, familiar with the system as a catcher and fans for 4 years, has been a special assistant to the GM for a number of years, along with instructor in spring training. Since TLR told them in august he would be leaving, I am going to assume that he may have had some input as to who would take over when he left. Extremely intelligent, like LaRussa, I could see how that would work for him, and I am going to assume that the coaching staff stays in tact for one more year, so the transition for him would be an easier task, not so much pressure to be champions again so soon as teams hardly ever repeat.


I understand what you are saying and certainly you have great insight into their organization. I liked Matheny as player and certainly he has had tremendous baseball experiences to build upon as a manager.

The thing that bothers me about a basically untested guy, is that it makes it appear that the Cardinals are saying "that the Manager really isn't that important, experience doesn't matter." I.E, we Cardinals think the "organization" (scouts, minor league coaches, coaching staff, GM) made LaRussa what he is and we can do the same job and get the same results with Matheny.

Personally, I think the Coach matters a whole bunch.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out long term.


I can only give my opinion, the organization was about one man for a very long time, and I think that is something that they want to change. Most of the coaching staff has been in place for many many years, and from what I understand it will remain in tact, for now anyway.
S Strike 3100+ posts
As a person who knows Mike personally, I am very excited for the opportunity he has been given. He is a man of great faith and integrity. I think he will be a great leader in the clubhouse, just as he was as a player. Sure, he lacks experience but he will be surrounded by some very good people, including the best pitching coach in the majors.

He inherits some great talent and with Wainwright coming back, the rotation should be pretty solid. Does Albert stay now? Unknown but Albert took a lot of BP at Mike's place when Mike was playing with the Cards. I'm pretty sure Albert respects Mike greatly and time will tell if Albert stays or not.

Go Cards!!
Last edited by Strike 3
fenwaysouthfenwaysouth10,000+ posts
Thanks for sharing Shelby. BTW...I thought it was hilarious that Bernie Miklasz referred to LaRussa as Don Tony.

If this coaching move is successful, we may see other organizations follow suit by hiring former strong (leaders) players within their organiztion without head coaching experience. I've always thought that Jason Varitek should get into coaching some time in the future (not now but in the future). I hope it works out for Metheny, and he shows the Cards & MLB that is pays to think outside the box.
P Prime91,000+ posts
quote:
How many "tested" guys were there in Major League Baseball this year?


Many, many more than the nots; Ventura and now Matheny.

I don't really want to argue this, I get what everyone is saying and certainly am not rooting against Matheny or Ventura. However, I would disagree with the notion that experience is not a nice attribute for consideration in ANY hire and certainly there were some very strong, experienced candidates to choose from!
Last edited by Prime9
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
Shelby posted an article that essentially explains it all, it was Mo's guy from the get go and he's the man in charge now. Good choice, a former card who knows the expectations and can bring youth to the coaching staff and relate to them that some claim had been missing. Francona or Sandburg have never been cardinals, it wouldn't have worked, Riggleman could have, but in the end the DeWitt's left the choice to Mo. Big point is that he was much less $$ than the others.
Matheny was in the DR with Albert when he got the call.

Either way, he's definetly the best looking manager in MLB as of today!
Texas1836Texas18361,000+ posts
FWIW, the talking heads on MLB radio this morning were saying that judging from interviews and press conferences, Metheny will not have much autonomy and that is important to GM. They were saying that it will be hard to know how good a manager Metheny is since Moeliak will "call the shots" unlike the old days with TLR.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by Texas1836:
FWIW, the talking heads on MLB radio this morning were saying that judging from interviews and press conferences, Metheny will not have much autonomy and that is important to GM. They were saying that it will be hard to know how good a manager Metheny is since Moeliak will "call the shots" unlike the old days with TLR.


I am not sure they were referring to managing the game. Understand that TLR controlled who came up and who went down and who stayed and who came. I would imagine the GM will have more input. He deserves it.

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