We all do things differently but I thought might be interesting to see how as a coach we handle the aftermath of real tough loss
Who goes first?
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
Last year after we blew a 9-3 lead to our rival I just tried to tell myself and the kids that that didn't change anything. We still were going to go out to practice the next day and we still needed to improve in every phase of the game. On a personal level though i'm reminded of a pretty good quote but I can't remember who said it first:
"You can't sleep when you win and you can't sleep when you lose; but when you win you sure wake up feeling better."
"You can't sleep when you win and you can't sleep when you lose; but when you win you sure wake up feeling better."
We keep telling our players to hang in there. tough loss is a tough loss. It happens and will happen to the players again again if not there somewhere else. Players take cues from their coaches . Everybody does it differently and what works for one does not work for another. What do you do crack the whip holler and scream. Depends on the type of kids you have. I always thought playing baseball should be fun. Yes fun. a few laughs never hurts. I remember once we lost a tough game in extra innings. We came back from several runs to tie it only to lose. The next day they were down. I had practice as usual. when we went to our infield out field drills I told all the kids to put their gloves on the opposite hand and do the drill opposite handed. It was a riot. everybody was busting a gut. We won 7 or 8 in a row after that. Loosened them up a bit? who knows.?
A tough loss it is a tough loss and you and your players can't hide the feelings. And that is normal, if you don't feel upset after a tough loss you are not right. if you are coaching LL probably you can say the usual: "you did your best"..."was a bad day, tomorow will be better". If you are coaching HS, College, Adult League, Travel baseball, Legion, or up, there are not excuses. Or coaching mistakes loss the game, or the players loss the game, if tough loss mean that we were suppose to win. So don't tell me anybody here, that after a tough loss everything is OK.
TR too me it depends on how we got that tough loss. If we played smart , gave it all we had , took care of the little things well , didnt miss signs etc etc I tell them Im proud of them. I tell them that baseball is a game of percentages and sometimes you come out on the wrong end of them. All you can do is go out there and give it your best shot and let it ride. Now if we did not play smart. Missed signals , missed cut offs , did not get the bunts down etc etc I focus on that as a learning experience and we all know we are going to work even harder than before to make sure you take care of those parts of the game. Actually I rip our kids after wins more than after losses. The outcome of a game to me is not as important as how we approached the game and played the game. JMHO
To me...the toughest loss is always the one that ends your season. Win or lose up until then, once the game is over, we move forward. I don't see any reason to point out that Johnny's throwing error, or Nick's base running blunder, or the dropped fly ball by Timmy. Johnny, Nick and Timmy know they made a blunder. Whether it is physical or mental, you need to be sure to reinforce the issue the next time on the field so it is less likely to happen the next time. Next practice or pre-game, mention to Johnny (one on one) that you figure what happened last game was a rare event, and if he focuses on good technique during the drills, then it is not likely to happen again.
As for the tough loss game that ends the season, remind them of the journey it took to get them here. Tell them to remember the pain of this last loss, and to use it as motivation to carry them through their off-season workouts.
As for the tough loss game that ends the season, remind them of the journey it took to get them here. Tell them to remember the pain of this last loss, and to use it as motivation to carry them through their off-season workouts.
I still remember my son's select coach's response after a hard loss at the Junior Olympics in Phoenix. He told everyone to be in the hotel lobby at 2 p.m. to run in the 110-degree heat. To add to the drama, he told the asst. coach (in front of the team) to make sure EMS was standing by. Afterwards, the boys looked like they had come straight from the Bataan death march, but they won several in a row after that.
Infield 8
Tremendous philosophy. Instead of working on things to make you better and avoid mistakes in the future.
sometimes called practice. Punish your team by running them in 110 degree heat. to think that many of us have or had been doing it all wrong.
Tremendous philosophy. Instead of working on things to make you better and avoid mistakes in the future.
sometimes called practice. Punish your team by running them in 110 degree heat. to think that many of us have or had been doing it all wrong.
As coaches we have to think as a team, that way the players think as a team also. There are not individual mistakes or individual punishment, or idividual success or individual awards. We loss or win as a team, we run 110 miles as a team, everybody is responsable for the loss, and everybody is awarded for the win.
I have never been a big believer in punishing players, especially not using an important baseball skill in doing so. We wanted our players to get as good as possible at running. That doesn’t happen by using it as a punishment.
Every college game I ever coached, we would meet after the game and go over the notebook. We never talked about physical errors, but would address all mental errors and other things we should have done differently. We wanted to do this while it was fresh in everyone’s mind. It was done as a calm group discussion because everything was about the group.
Then we would vote as a group on who had to wear our specially made cap… that had “Sh*T For Brains” written in it. This was “awarded” to the guy who had the biggest bone head play that day. Nearly everyone got the cap at least one time. It was actually a lot of fun for all of us as well as a reminder. Not many would make the same mistake again.
Different from a real tough lose… Remember a game where we lost something like 22-2 and then had our meeting. I said something like, we don’t have time to go over all of this, let’s just forget it ever happened and get the hell out of here. Someone said… Coach what about the cap? I stuck it on my head and wore it into the restaurant we ate at. Pretty embarrassing, but it’s the most I’ve ever seen a bunch a guys laugh after getting trounced like we did.
I do believe, going over things right after each game was a giant benefit for us. Making notes during the game is very important because it’s hard to remember everything otherwise. These notes had nothing to do with anything you could see in a scorebook or chart. More about being in the right position or making the right decisions or not understanding the situation or bad communication.
Every college game I ever coached, we would meet after the game and go over the notebook. We never talked about physical errors, but would address all mental errors and other things we should have done differently. We wanted to do this while it was fresh in everyone’s mind. It was done as a calm group discussion because everything was about the group.
Then we would vote as a group on who had to wear our specially made cap… that had “Sh*T For Brains” written in it. This was “awarded” to the guy who had the biggest bone head play that day. Nearly everyone got the cap at least one time. It was actually a lot of fun for all of us as well as a reminder. Not many would make the same mistake again.
Different from a real tough lose… Remember a game where we lost something like 22-2 and then had our meeting. I said something like, we don’t have time to go over all of this, let’s just forget it ever happened and get the hell out of here. Someone said… Coach what about the cap? I stuck it on my head and wore it into the restaurant we ate at. Pretty embarrassing, but it’s the most I’ve ever seen a bunch a guys laugh after getting trounced like we did.
I do believe, going over things right after each game was a giant benefit for us. Making notes during the game is very important because it’s hard to remember everything otherwise. These notes had nothing to do with anything you could see in a scorebook or chart. More about being in the right position or making the right decisions or not understanding the situation or bad communication.
I recall watching a show with Reggie Jackson many years back where he was talking about the difference between losing and getting beat---as long as you gave your all you did not lose, you go beat by a better team that game
To this day I use that thinking--physical errors happen--it is the mental boners that truly hurt and you hope you can correct---we will talk about the mental boners during the game right after they happen even to the point of asking a pitcher at the end of the inning why he shook off the catchers signal threw the pitch he did which went over the fence.
I am not into punishment for a loss as I see it serving no purpose especially if the kids gave their all and the temperature is 110---that is asking for trouble in my opinion---kids who have played with us will tell we are disciplined and regimented but I feel that when you do that and the kids work hard there is no need for punishment after a loss , even a 22-2 loss
Even as a coach you can beat yourself up--did we take the pitcher out too soon?---did we leave him in too long?--did we go to the wrong guy ?---Perhaps but you can do the same thing in the next game and it will work---baseball is all about confidence--confidence in yourself and coaches and your players
To this day I use that thinking--physical errors happen--it is the mental boners that truly hurt and you hope you can correct---we will talk about the mental boners during the game right after they happen even to the point of asking a pitcher at the end of the inning why he shook off the catchers signal threw the pitch he did which went over the fence.
I am not into punishment for a loss as I see it serving no purpose especially if the kids gave their all and the temperature is 110---that is asking for trouble in my opinion---kids who have played with us will tell we are disciplined and regimented but I feel that when you do that and the kids work hard there is no need for punishment after a loss , even a 22-2 loss
Even as a coach you can beat yourself up--did we take the pitcher out too soon?---did we leave him in too long?--did we go to the wrong guy ?---Perhaps but you can do the same thing in the next game and it will work---baseball is all about confidence--confidence in yourself and coaches and your players
After reading through this topic a couple of things pop into my head and would like to ask your opinions of things.
1. What do you punish your players for?
I agree that if your team played hard and kept the errors and miscues they should not be punished. Once you determine they deserve punishment for something how do you punish them?
I agree TRhit the running in the severely hot weather is asking for trouble regardless of the outcome.
2. When does laughing and having a good time after a loss goes from getting over a loss and towards not caring about winning and losing?
I don't want my guys to ponder too long or not get over losses but I also want them to care about winning and not accept losing as something that is not that big of a deal.
1. What do you punish your players for?
I agree that if your team played hard and kept the errors and miscues they should not be punished. Once you determine they deserve punishment for something how do you punish them?
I agree TRhit the running in the severely hot weather is asking for trouble regardless of the outcome.
2. When does laughing and having a good time after a loss goes from getting over a loss and towards not caring about winning and losing?
I don't want my guys to ponder too long or not get over losses but I also want them to care about winning and not accept losing as something that is not that big of a deal.
Coach2709
Any kid who doen't care about getting beat doesn't deserve to be on the roster of any team---it is one thing to accept but taking it lightly is , in my book at least, a NO NO !!!!
We want kids who are winners and are not happy about a loss---but you have to go on to the next game---punishment does not work
Any kid who doen't care about getting beat doesn't deserve to be on the roster of any team---it is one thing to accept but taking it lightly is , in my book at least, a NO NO !!!!
We want kids who are winners and are not happy about a loss---but you have to go on to the next game---punishment does not work
quote:When does laughing and having a good time after a loss goes from getting over a loss and towards not caring about winning and losing?
In that one case I had those kids were down way down why because they cared about winning and losing. took thir mind off the loss. loosened everybody up.
If a team plays well and loses are they any less. You know contrary to some peoples thoughts sometimes the other team is better. Imagine that.
Run 'em til they ****!!!
The only time I used physical exercise to punish my team had nothing to do about baseball. We were on a trip to a July 4th tourney in New York. I stumbled upon a 6 pack of beer, but couldn't get any one on the team to admit to bringing it along.
We went out to the hotel parking lot at 10:30 in the evening, and I ran 'em. Man did I run 'em. About 20 minutes in, after 2 kids barfed, another guy finally admitted to bringing the beer. I sent him home that night. I wouldn't have if he had admitted it right away. He had his chance. He would have probably sat out the whole tournament, but would have been able to stay with the team. I liked the fact that the other 19 players didn't squeal on him, but I'm sure barfers one and two weren't too happy with him!
The only time I used physical exercise to punish my team had nothing to do about baseball. We were on a trip to a July 4th tourney in New York. I stumbled upon a 6 pack of beer, but couldn't get any one on the team to admit to bringing it along.
We went out to the hotel parking lot at 10:30 in the evening, and I ran 'em. Man did I run 'em. About 20 minutes in, after 2 kids barfed, another guy finally admitted to bringing the beer. I sent him home that night. I wouldn't have if he had admitted it right away. He had his chance. He would have probably sat out the whole tournament, but would have been able to stay with the team. I liked the fact that the other 19 players didn't squeal on him, but I'm sure barfers one and two weren't too happy with him!
The past season we made it downstate for the first time in school history. Since about the first week we had been talking about getting down state and having a chance to compete for the title. We felt like we were the best team in the state all season. Anyhow we got down there due to our dominate pitching and defense all year long, however our ace and our number 2 pitchers fell flat on their face and we were down 8-2 with 6 outs left. Long story short we fought back and had tying run on 2nd in the bottom of 7th.
After the game everyone was so emotional, most in tears, I could barely hold it together after seeing how hard they worked and how bad they wanted it. My postgame speech was the usual proud of you, we never quit deal I give after a loss in which we played hard, but it wasnt having any effect on them.
We had reservations at a nice steakhouse for dinner after the game, so one of my assistants yells out in the middle of my speaking, "For heavens sakes, let go eat some stake" and it got a laugh out of everyone including myself. Sometimes laughing is the ultimate cure. Everyone needed it, cause we were all mentally destroyed after that loss.
The ones that end the season are the worst, because for some its the end of their playing days.
I will never forget that moment and can never thank my assistant enough for recognizing the mood and situation and helping put everything in perspective with a crazy comment like that.
After the game everyone was so emotional, most in tears, I could barely hold it together after seeing how hard they worked and how bad they wanted it. My postgame speech was the usual proud of you, we never quit deal I give after a loss in which we played hard, but it wasnt having any effect on them.
We had reservations at a nice steakhouse for dinner after the game, so one of my assistants yells out in the middle of my speaking, "For heavens sakes, let go eat some stake" and it got a laugh out of everyone including myself. Sometimes laughing is the ultimate cure. Everyone needed it, cause we were all mentally destroyed after that loss.
The ones that end the season are the worst, because for some its the end of their playing days.
I will never forget that moment and can never thank my assistant enough for recognizing the mood and situation and helping put everything in perspective with a crazy comment like that.
I can understand people's disgust at the 110-degree run. It's been a while since the JO and it's hard to remember all the details, but I honestly don't recall any of us -- parents or players -- viewing it as "punishment." As I recall, the boys had become complacent and seemed to not have a lot of mental focus in the game they lost. The run was the coach's attempt to get them back "in gear." They all loved the coach and continue to do so to this day. He honestly loves them all like sons.
TRhit
I agree completely but do you think you can create that attitude in kids or is it something you have to be born with? If you can create it how do you create it?
Do you think it's possible (for whatever reasons) that a school or team don't have the winning attitude?
I'm not trying to argue or anything I just want to pick your (and everyone else) brains.
At the school I teach at I am probably the most successful baseball coach they have ever had. Nobody knows because no one ever kept stats or records or anything. In 40 some years before me the school only had 3 district championships and in 7 years I have 3 myself. Before me the school was never ranked and I got them up to 15th in the state. My point is I have had success but I still don't feel like I am getting everything out of my guys. I am constantly fighting parents. Before me they ran off 3 coaches in 5 years.
I am just wanting to figure out what I need to do to get the most out of my guys and stay away from not caring.
I agree completely but do you think you can create that attitude in kids or is it something you have to be born with? If you can create it how do you create it?
Do you think it's possible (for whatever reasons) that a school or team don't have the winning attitude?
I'm not trying to argue or anything I just want to pick your (and everyone else) brains.
At the school I teach at I am probably the most successful baseball coach they have ever had. Nobody knows because no one ever kept stats or records or anything. In 40 some years before me the school only had 3 district championships and in 7 years I have 3 myself. Before me the school was never ranked and I got them up to 15th in the state. My point is I have had success but I still don't feel like I am getting everything out of my guys. I am constantly fighting parents. Before me they ran off 3 coaches in 5 years.
I am just wanting to figure out what I need to do to get the most out of my guys and stay away from not caring.
Coach,
FWIW
Don’t know if the approach we used would work for everyone, but here is one thing we used to do. It sounds simpler than it was, but I think it was the basis for setting school records for wins 7 consecutive years.
Get your players to understand the 4 things that win all baseball games
Talent
Effort
Intelligence
Luck
Everything that causes wins or loses falls into one of those four categories.
Create an atmosphere and prepare your players to show up for every game knowing they will be #1 that day in the only two of those four things you have control of… effort and intelligence. Then you will win every game unless the other team has either more talent or more luck. Never except being second best in the two areas you have the most control of. If your team is not #1 in intelligence then you need to work very hard to change that.
Talent is #1, but sometimes the other things will beat the better talent in a game, if it’s not overwhelming in the opponents favor. However, the emphasis on effort and intelligence will help you develop more talent.
Luck is a factor in baseball, but I believe that being the best at the other things can give you a small advantage in that area too. To us, luck included bad calls going for and against, bad hops for and against, injuries, things that can happen involving the sun and wind or other conditions and just about everything else that can happen outside the other three areas.
Oddly enough, I’ve found the same four things determine winning or losing outside of baseball as well.
Hope this stuff doesn’t bore people to death. Guess if it means anything to even one person it’s worth the time spent. The rest can simply ignore what I know appears to be fairly simple.
I am not a Rocket Surgeon!
FWIW
Don’t know if the approach we used would work for everyone, but here is one thing we used to do. It sounds simpler than it was, but I think it was the basis for setting school records for wins 7 consecutive years.
Get your players to understand the 4 things that win all baseball games
Talent
Effort
Intelligence
Luck
Everything that causes wins or loses falls into one of those four categories.
Create an atmosphere and prepare your players to show up for every game knowing they will be #1 that day in the only two of those four things you have control of… effort and intelligence. Then you will win every game unless the other team has either more talent or more luck. Never except being second best in the two areas you have the most control of. If your team is not #1 in intelligence then you need to work very hard to change that.
Talent is #1, but sometimes the other things will beat the better talent in a game, if it’s not overwhelming in the opponents favor. However, the emphasis on effort and intelligence will help you develop more talent.
Luck is a factor in baseball, but I believe that being the best at the other things can give you a small advantage in that area too. To us, luck included bad calls going for and against, bad hops for and against, injuries, things that can happen involving the sun and wind or other conditions and just about everything else that can happen outside the other three areas.
Oddly enough, I’ve found the same four things determine winning or losing outside of baseball as well.
Hope this stuff doesn’t bore people to death. Guess if it means anything to even one person it’s worth the time spent. The rest can simply ignore what I know appears to be fairly simple.
I am not a Rocket Surgeon!
Sorry, PG. I think you're missing the most important element of all: Heart.
What separates those players in the Hall of Fame from the rest is that burning desire, the passion for the game. It's an unquantifiable quality -- you can't count it-- and if I tried to explain it to an alien, he would not understand. But there is just something about the men that have it..
..Jackie Robinson.. Cal Ripken, Jr. .. Roberto Clemente..
Baseball is such a great, historical game. A statistical game, a game of wins and losses. But if you ask a 6 year-old who is favorite ballplayer is, he undoubtedly cannot recite his statistics. His favorite ballplayer is his hero, a man who plays the game with heart.
IMHO, coaches, my first step would be to find those players who have respect and love for the game, who have heart. These players believe, and they act upon their beliefs, and baseball is replete with examples of teams made up of such players that won despite their apparent shortcomings. And in the aftermath of a tough loss? They get tougher.
What separates those players in the Hall of Fame from the rest is that burning desire, the passion for the game. It's an unquantifiable quality -- you can't count it-- and if I tried to explain it to an alien, he would not understand. But there is just something about the men that have it..
..Jackie Robinson.. Cal Ripken, Jr. .. Roberto Clemente..
Baseball is such a great, historical game. A statistical game, a game of wins and losses. But if you ask a 6 year-old who is favorite ballplayer is, he undoubtedly cannot recite his statistics. His favorite ballplayer is his hero, a man who plays the game with heart.
IMHO, coaches, my first step would be to find those players who have respect and love for the game, who have heart. These players believe, and they act upon their beliefs, and baseball is replete with examples of teams made up of such players that won despite their apparent shortcomings. And in the aftermath of a tough loss? They get tougher.
coach2709
The attitude--- we are not a HS team but a travel and many of our kids come from solid HS programs and coaches who are "icons" in their area---thus the attitude comes with them and we know it beforehand--- that attitude then permeates the dugout and the others become part of what the team is. Funny thing we, as coaches,do not introduce the players to each other--we leave that up to them--I used think this was crazy but it seems to work, at least it works for us---but we do everything together---we all meet at the same time for breakfast---we have meetings and talk baseball continually--- it is not uncommon to see the coaches in the hotel lobby talking with groups of kids---it is also not uncommon to see the team in groups go to movies etc
School/team attitude-- Yes I think a program, especially at the HS level can have a losing attitude---my son played on a HS team that never won more than 6 games in a season--the town talent just wasnt there, it was as simple as that--they knew when they would get beaten ---the coach was a great guy and super with the kids, at least with my own. Bottom line is simple if you do not have talent it doesn't matter how good a coach you are it wont happen
Can you create a winning attitude ?-_For sure--talent is the best way and then it spreads--- even if you dont have talent to win it all you can still have a winning attitude because if the kids do their best everytime out and work hard in between
As for not getting everyting out of the players even if you are winning--hate to say it but that can be a coaching/motivation problem
As for the parents---let me say this--after my son graduated HS I was offered the HS Coaching job--I turned it down and told the AD very simply-"You don't want phone calls every day because I dont' play that game with the parents--If I am the coach it is my program and that is that--plain and simple-- today the AD and I are best of friends --If I took the job I probably would have gotten him fired--and keep in mind I was fixture in town I ran all the youth programs ---but I did that as a volunteer--once you are on the payroll you have to answer to people
BUM
I equate "effort" with "heart"---don't you?
The attitude--- we are not a HS team but a travel and many of our kids come from solid HS programs and coaches who are "icons" in their area---thus the attitude comes with them and we know it beforehand--- that attitude then permeates the dugout and the others become part of what the team is. Funny thing we, as coaches,do not introduce the players to each other--we leave that up to them--I used think this was crazy but it seems to work, at least it works for us---but we do everything together---we all meet at the same time for breakfast---we have meetings and talk baseball continually--- it is not uncommon to see the coaches in the hotel lobby talking with groups of kids---it is also not uncommon to see the team in groups go to movies etc
School/team attitude-- Yes I think a program, especially at the HS level can have a losing attitude---my son played on a HS team that never won more than 6 games in a season--the town talent just wasnt there, it was as simple as that--they knew when they would get beaten ---the coach was a great guy and super with the kids, at least with my own. Bottom line is simple if you do not have talent it doesn't matter how good a coach you are it wont happen
Can you create a winning attitude ?-_For sure--talent is the best way and then it spreads--- even if you dont have talent to win it all you can still have a winning attitude because if the kids do their best everytime out and work hard in between
As for not getting everyting out of the players even if you are winning--hate to say it but that can be a coaching/motivation problem
As for the parents---let me say this--after my son graduated HS I was offered the HS Coaching job--I turned it down and told the AD very simply-"You don't want phone calls every day because I dont' play that game with the parents--If I am the coach it is my program and that is that--plain and simple-- today the AD and I are best of friends --If I took the job I probably would have gotten him fired--and keep in mind I was fixture in town I ran all the youth programs ---but I did that as a volunteer--once you are on the payroll you have to answer to people
BUM
I equate "effort" with "heart"---don't you?
Good points Bum and TR. I would agree with everything you have written.
There are hundreds, maybe thousands of things that help win a game! The old one game at a time theory, or even one pitch at a time, is important to remember!
Heart, attitude, class, hustle, character, cheating, etc, etc. all play a part. The four categories are based on one game at a time, rather than an overall view.
Attitude – Those with attitude problems were weeded out ahead of time! So they were not going to affect the outcome of any game.
Heart – falls into the effort area. Those without heart will always lack the necessary effort. Those who lacked heart were also weeded out before costing us a game. You can’t be #1 in effort every time out and lack heart! Can you?
Class – Intelligence, those who lack class are not very smart. They were weeded out before embarrassing us.
Cheating – Intelligence, Effort, Luck… or lack there of! A subject in itself!
So now you have the team you enter the game with… Every win will be based on the four categories.
Please understand that these were teams where we were in control of who the players were on that team. In high school it would be much harder because you have who you have for the most part.
There are hundreds, maybe thousands of things that help win a game! The old one game at a time theory, or even one pitch at a time, is important to remember!
Heart, attitude, class, hustle, character, cheating, etc, etc. all play a part. The four categories are based on one game at a time, rather than an overall view.
Attitude – Those with attitude problems were weeded out ahead of time! So they were not going to affect the outcome of any game.
Heart – falls into the effort area. Those without heart will always lack the necessary effort. Those who lacked heart were also weeded out before costing us a game. You can’t be #1 in effort every time out and lack heart! Can you?
Class – Intelligence, those who lack class are not very smart. They were weeded out before embarrassing us.
Cheating – Intelligence, Effort, Luck… or lack there of! A subject in itself!
So now you have the team you enter the game with… Every win will be based on the four categories.
Please understand that these were teams where we were in control of who the players were on that team. In high school it would be much harder because you have who you have for the most part.
Skip Bertman once told me, "don't say much when you win, say less when you lose."
I like to go home, watch the film of the game, or read my pitching chart, or look at the scorebook, formulate exactly what I want to say, then say it with a cool head the next day.
I like to go home, watch the film of the game, or read my pitching chart, or look at the scorebook, formulate exactly what I want to say, then say it with a cool head the next day.
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
coach2709
The attitude--- we are not a HS team but a travel and many of our kids come from solid HS programs and coaches who are "icons" in their area---thus the attitude comes with them and we know it beforehand--- that attitude then permeates the dugout and the others become part of what the team is. Funny thing we, as coaches,do not introduce the players to each other--we leave that up to them--I used think this was crazy but it seems to work, at least it works for us---but we do everything together---we all meet at the same time for breakfast---we have meetings and talk baseball continually--- it is not uncommon to see the coaches in the hotel lobby talking with groups of kids---it is also not uncommon to see the team in groups go to movies etc
School/team attitude-- Yes I think a program, especially at the HS level can have a losing attitude---my son played on a HS team that never won more than 6 games in a season--the town talent just wasnt there, it was as simple as that--they knew when they would get beaten ---the coach was a great guy and super with the kids, at least with my own. Bottom line is simple if you do not have talent it doesn't matter how good a coach you are it wont happen
Can you create a winning attitude ?-_For sure--talent is the best way and then it spreads--- even if you dont have talent to win it all you can still have a winning attitude because if the kids do their best everytime out and work hard in between
As for not getting everyting out of the players even if you are winning--hate to say it but that can be a coaching/motivation problem
As for the parents---let me say this--after my son graduated HS I was offered the HS Coaching job--I turned it down and told the AD very simply-"You don't want phone calls every day because I dont' play that game with the parents--If I am the coach it is my program and that is that--plain and simple-- today the AD and I are best of friends --If I took the job I probably would have gotten him fired--and keep in mind I was fixture in town I ran all the youth programs ---but I did that as a volunteer--once you are on the payroll you have to answer to people
BUM
I equate "effort" with "heart"---don't you?
Great points and I agree with motivation being partly my fault. I just haven't found what works yet - it's not because I don't try it but just not found it yet.
As for parents I came in and changed everything around and made a lot of people upset - basically what you were meaning. Players used to go to the beach for Spring Break and silly stuff like that. My first year I only had 3 seniors and kicked one of them off when he got a DUI on prom night. One of them I kept because he was a good guy and never got in the lineup. The other one played quite a bit. You could set your watch on when the parents went to the Board of Education wanting me fired on a weekly basis. I was lucky and had great administration who backed me. We got to the regional championship that year for the first time in school history with 8 sophomores starting the field. I honestly don't care what parents think or do but because I don't play the favorite game and the other political stuff I believe it hurts me in developing the team.
The reason I say that is the players go home and hear how great they are and how stupid I am because they don't play shortstop and hit fourth. The vast majority of high school kids are not mature enough to realize how good they are and accept their role on the team. They hear the stuff they want to hear at home because that makes them feel good so they tune me out.
Which brings me to another problem - I can't draw from the talent you have to put a lot of pressure on my starters by threatening their position. Don't get me wrong I will sit a superstar in a heartbeat but then the guy I replace him with will make 3 errors and strike out 3 times. Now the superstar is thinking "he can't win without me". I actually kicked my best player off the team once the day before our district tournament because he showed up late for practice.
I just sometimes believe I don't have a chance at this school and may need to try again at another one.
You and everyone else has made great points and I am going to use them in my preseason speech with my entire team.
Coach2709,
Close. But to me heart is what separates the champions from the contenders. Heart transcends the field, into the dugout and off the field, and solidifies the team and not just the individual.
Close. But to me heart is what separates the champions from the contenders. Heart transcends the field, into the dugout and off the field, and solidifies the team and not just the individual.
quote:Originally posted by Infield08:
I can understand people's disgust at the 110-degree run. It's been a while since the JO and it's hard to remember all the details, but I honestly don't recall any of us -- parents or players -- viewing it as "punishment." As I recall, the boys had become complacent and seemed to not have a lot of mental focus in the game they lost. The run was the coach's attempt to get them back "in gear." They all loved the coach and continue to do so to this day. He honestly loves them all like sons.
If that coach's initials are MG, he has a long history of punitive punishment. Often running was the punishment. And I'm not talking about attempting to get players back in gear, but rather punishment for losses, strikeouts, errors, etc.
I always told the boys that they would not execute perfectly every time. There would be errors of the physical type. There are bad hops. A throw slips off the fingers from time to time. Feet can slip. Balls can get dropped. These things happen to everyone.
But that they could do their assignments, use proper mechanics (whether fielding, hitting or throwing) and hustle their tails off on each and every play. If they did these things, they had done all I could ask of them.
As someone else mentioned, if the team had done their best I would tell them they may have been outscored but they didn't lose.
After the tough game when the team has been outscored, focus on the positive and move on. They are already down, they don't need every little mistake thrown in their face at that time.
But that they could do their assignments, use proper mechanics (whether fielding, hitting or throwing) and hustle their tails off on each and every play. If they did these things, they had done all I could ask of them.
As someone else mentioned, if the team had done their best I would tell them they may have been outscored but they didn't lose.
After the tough game when the team has been outscored, focus on the positive and move on. They are already down, they don't need every little mistake thrown in their face at that time.
Lets take this a bit further because I think we have some great discussion here
In terms of coping do you see it differently in terms of youth teams, HS teams and Travel teams ?---I think we interact with our travel kids differently than if we were a HS team--and obviously the age of players makes a difference--there is not a blanket that covers LL/Youth/HS and travel
In terms of coping do you see it differently in terms of youth teams, HS teams and Travel teams ?---I think we interact with our travel kids differently than if we were a HS team--and obviously the age of players makes a difference--there is not a blanket that covers LL/Youth/HS and travel
You can not recruit in HS. At least your not supposed to recruit in HS. Our talent pool when I first started coaching in HS was very weak. Rec ball players who had never played outside of our own county. The coaching was pathetic and the players had no idea what off season work was. They picked up their gove when the season started and put it in the closet when the season ended. The program was alot like several other programs in our area. Every once in awhile a couple of stud arms would come through the program and they would be competitive while they were there. After that they would go back to being very very avg if not worse.
Instill a work ethic during the season. Instill an off season strength and conditioning program. Start a HS summer program where you can teach and instruct longer and get more competitive baseball in. Go out into the community and help them understand the importance of better coaching at the youth level. Help them start travel teams and AAU clubs so the kids can get out of the little pond syndrome and see that where they stand. Hold camps in the summer and fall so you can introduce the younger kids to your program and coaches. Hold clinics for the youth coaches and middle school coaches and show them what you teach and why you teach it. Build a program not a team.
Base your program on a solid foundation that does not change from year to year or from talent level to talent level. Discipline , Dedication , Desire. Fundemental baseball where you focus on making the routine play routinely. Hitting the cut off man everytime. Bunt Defense , 1st and 3rd Defense , Bunt O and Bunt D , 1st and 3rd Offense. Solid throwing and catching fundementals. ETC ETC ETC ETC. When a player is 14 and comes into a program they learn how things are going to be done and there is a consistency to the teaching and coaching.
We consistently beat teams with more talent than us. We out train them , out hustle them and out play them. When we play teams with the same talent level it is not even close. Now we have developed some outstanding players. And now we are in a posistion to be very good every year. We have not finished out of 1st or 2nd place in our conference in the last 10 years. We have won our conference the last three years with a combined record of 38-4 in conference play. Its about creating an attitude of "You will not out work me in the off season. You will not out work me during the season. You will not out hustle me , ever. You will not want it more than me. We will make the routine play. We will play smart and execute. And we expect to win everytime we take the field". You may have more talent than me. You may not. But that is the least of my concerns when we take the field. Why? Because that is the one thing we have no controll over. We will win because we will do the things we can controll better than you.
To me this is how you build and winning program. It starts with the coaches and filters down to the players. You can win in HS baseball with less talent than your competition. You must! Or you will only win when your talent is superior. The measure of a great program is winning regardless of your opponents talent. Its about playing your game and focusing on the things you can controll. And if you do that you will win way more than you lose. JMHO
Instill a work ethic during the season. Instill an off season strength and conditioning program. Start a HS summer program where you can teach and instruct longer and get more competitive baseball in. Go out into the community and help them understand the importance of better coaching at the youth level. Help them start travel teams and AAU clubs so the kids can get out of the little pond syndrome and see that where they stand. Hold camps in the summer and fall so you can introduce the younger kids to your program and coaches. Hold clinics for the youth coaches and middle school coaches and show them what you teach and why you teach it. Build a program not a team.
Base your program on a solid foundation that does not change from year to year or from talent level to talent level. Discipline , Dedication , Desire. Fundemental baseball where you focus on making the routine play routinely. Hitting the cut off man everytime. Bunt Defense , 1st and 3rd Defense , Bunt O and Bunt D , 1st and 3rd Offense. Solid throwing and catching fundementals. ETC ETC ETC ETC. When a player is 14 and comes into a program they learn how things are going to be done and there is a consistency to the teaching and coaching.
We consistently beat teams with more talent than us. We out train them , out hustle them and out play them. When we play teams with the same talent level it is not even close. Now we have developed some outstanding players. And now we are in a posistion to be very good every year. We have not finished out of 1st or 2nd place in our conference in the last 10 years. We have won our conference the last three years with a combined record of 38-4 in conference play. Its about creating an attitude of "You will not out work me in the off season. You will not out work me during the season. You will not out hustle me , ever. You will not want it more than me. We will make the routine play. We will play smart and execute. And we expect to win everytime we take the field". You may have more talent than me. You may not. But that is the least of my concerns when we take the field. Why? Because that is the one thing we have no controll over. We will win because we will do the things we can controll better than you.
To me this is how you build and winning program. It starts with the coaches and filters down to the players. You can win in HS baseball with less talent than your competition. You must! Or you will only win when your talent is superior. The measure of a great program is winning regardless of your opponents talent. Its about playing your game and focusing on the things you can controll. And if you do that you will win way more than you lose. JMHO
Losses? I could write books! What was the worse? Gosh, I just don't know. We once had a 64 game winning streak (cameras were everywhere at each game), were rated #1 team in America in two polls (Collegiate Magazine and USA Today), were defending state champs... We lost in the State Championship game. I will never forget that moment. The pain in their eyes. The total dejection. First, shake the other teams hands like men. Then, we went into our dugout and they cried and cried. I had to tell myself that this was about them and not myself. I had to comfort them. It was so hard and yes, I cried a lot myself. We had the seniors get together and everyone gave them a hug. It is a tradition I do to this very day on the day that we are eliminated. We let the Seniors have a say. Then, called the team together and explained to them that when we leave the dugout to see their parents and fans, we leave as a team. We will hold our heads up. One is only defeated when they PROJECT that they are defeated. IN EVERY WAY WE WILL ACT LIKE CHAMPIONS. Then, I went through the line giving every kid a hug and we walked out as a team.
In 2005 I had a great team. Some of the best people I’ve ever been around. We were in the Super Sectional Championship game. It was extra innings. With two outs and a 0-2 count, I called for a cut fastball down and out. We have a signal that means the pitch will not be across the plate at all. Our pitcher threw a “change-up” right down the middle of the plate. We lost. I first went to him. He got the signal wrong. It happens and so, he was distraught after the catcher asked him what he threw and then told him what was called. I took the blame. He and the catcher both know that. How did I cope? I love those kids and let them know that here at this school, they have set a new standard. You cope by building the kids up. You cope by being the adult and taking all of the heat. You cope by knowing that you didn’t do good enough as a coach. If that signal was missed it was my fault. Physician heal thyself.
Do I still think about it? EVERYDAY. Do I think about what is ahead of me this year? EVERYDAY. If I'm not good enough, we will get eliminated. I tell myself every day that in the end, I have to outwork everyone, make my kids the best to avoid that day. Only one team in our class will end the season with a win. I have to do everything I can to be that team. That's how I cope. WORK HARDER!
In 2005 I had a great team. Some of the best people I’ve ever been around. We were in the Super Sectional Championship game. It was extra innings. With two outs and a 0-2 count, I called for a cut fastball down and out. We have a signal that means the pitch will not be across the plate at all. Our pitcher threw a “change-up” right down the middle of the plate. We lost. I first went to him. He got the signal wrong. It happens and so, he was distraught after the catcher asked him what he threw and then told him what was called. I took the blame. He and the catcher both know that. How did I cope? I love those kids and let them know that here at this school, they have set a new standard. You cope by building the kids up. You cope by being the adult and taking all of the heat. You cope by knowing that you didn’t do good enough as a coach. If that signal was missed it was my fault. Physician heal thyself.
Do I still think about it? EVERYDAY. Do I think about what is ahead of me this year? EVERYDAY. If I'm not good enough, we will get eliminated. I tell myself every day that in the end, I have to outwork everyone, make my kids the best to avoid that day. Only one team in our class will end the season with a win. I have to do everything I can to be that team. That's how I cope. WORK HARDER!
I have found that the best way to handle a tough loss was to prepare the kids before it happens. That way when it eventually happens you can recite the country song lyrics that go something like, "Momma told me there'd be days like this".
Each coach's personality and style is different. As for myself, my kids would have already heard something along the line that sports is like life, you can go through life always taking the easy road or you can seek challenges and realize that sometimes you are going to fall short. And when that day comes, it doesn't mean you gotta like it, but you need to handle it with the same grace we have handled our winning.
Speaking of country songs, kind of sounds like Garth Brooks, "The Dance".
Somebody once said something like, it's better to shoot for the moon and make it to the top of the mountain than to aim for the foothills and attain it.
Each coach's personality and style is different. As for myself, my kids would have already heard something along the line that sports is like life, you can go through life always taking the easy road or you can seek challenges and realize that sometimes you are going to fall short. And when that day comes, it doesn't mean you gotta like it, but you need to handle it with the same grace we have handled our winning.
Speaking of country songs, kind of sounds like Garth Brooks, "The Dance".
Somebody once said something like, it's better to shoot for the moon and make it to the top of the mountain than to aim for the foothills and attain it.
quote:Somebody once said something like, it's better to shoot for the moon and make it to the top of the mountain than to aim for the foothills and attain it.
SBK, That is Great! Never heard it before, but how true! Thanks
quote:We consistently beat teams with more talent than us. We out train them , out hustle them and out play them. When we play teams with the same talent level it is not even close. Now we have developed some outstanding players. And now we are in a posistion to be very good every year. We have not finished out of 1st or 2nd place in our conference in the last 10 years. We have won our conference the last three years with a combined record of 38-4 in conference play. Its about creating an attitude of "You will not out work me in the off season. You will not out work me during the season. You will not out hustle me , ever. You will not want it more than me. We will make the routine play. We will play smart and execute. And we expect to win everytime we take the field". You may have more talent than me. You may not. But that is the least of my concerns when we take the field. Why? Because that is the one thing we have no controll over. We will win because we will do the things we can controll better than you.
Coach May, Bingo! Great post! Failure to prepare is preparing to fail! You should have coached at a level where you also contolled who the players were.
I have always told our players that, in my mind, there is a distinct difference between LOSING and being BEATEN. To me, being BEATEN means that a team that is at least our equal simply outplayed us on a given day. This is a part of sports, and something that all athletes must be able to handle. I think LOSING is tougher...because then we did something that cost us to lose to a team that we should normally win against (mental mistakes usually are the culprit, it seems).
I HATE to lose (and quite frankly am not a big fan of being beaten either!), but I think it's important for coaches to distinguish between the 2.
I HATE to lose (and quite frankly am not a big fan of being beaten either!), but I think it's important for coaches to distinguish between the 2.
In a similar question to the asked earlier I’m wondering how coaches handle losing streaks. Let’s say you’ve dropped 5 or 6 games in a row, they’ve been relatively close, but you’ve haven’t gotten that big hit or pitch you needed. How you handle it personally, but more importantly what do you tell the players to try and keep them focused and avoiding having them panic as the losses start to mount?
How appropriate this comes up. We lost 2 this weekend. It has eaten at me all weekend long. We made 9 errors in 2 games. I still can't believe that. We play again today. Today, I need to build them up and not break them down. What has been a long weekend for me hasn't been for most of them. Naturally, one or two still hurt some. I think that by remaining positive I can get a positive outcome. If I show up negative tonight, we're beaten before the game starts. JMHO!
Coaches,
I tend to go by the philosophy that the only game that matters is the next game. Put poor performances and losses in the past; they literally are history.
The only time you want past performances to have any effect on the future ones is when the past was positive. Preparing (both mentally and physically) for the next game is of much more importance than dwelling on the previous game.
Players can sense any stress a coach has about losses and the potential of losing again. You don't want that kind of emotion spreading to the players.
I tend to go by the philosophy that the only game that matters is the next game. Put poor performances and losses in the past; they literally are history.
The only time you want past performances to have any effect on the future ones is when the past was positive. Preparing (both mentally and physically) for the next game is of much more importance than dwelling on the previous game.
Players can sense any stress a coach has about losses and the potential of losing again. You don't want that kind of emotion spreading to the players.
