How does this look for the future of baseball?

RJM, MLB has already planned for this, it's called Dominican Baseball Camps. There is plenty of foreign talent to fill up the rosters if US players switch to other sports.

I don't think its the players that we should be worried about as much as the fan base. But considering the the NBA is cutting it's own throat and men's soc-her has yet to catch on in the USA there is still hope for baseball long term.

quote:

Originally posted by Pop Up Hitter dad:
RJM, MLB has already planned for this, it's called Dominican Baseball Camps. There is plenty of foreign talent to fill up the rosters if US players switch to other sports.

The situation is a lot bigger than the potential pro talent pool. If the kid's aren't playing and watching baseball eventually becomes a second rate sport.

quote:

Originally posted by Three Bagger:
I don't think its the players that we should be worried about as much as the fan base. But considering the the NBA is cutting it's own throat and men's soc-her has yet to catch on in the USA there is still hope for baseball long term.

S0ccer keeps growing. It's not going away. Kids are now watching World Cup s0ccer live on tv. More kids play youth s0ccer than youth baseball. The MLS just passed the NBA, based on each sports last completed season in average attendance per event. I believe people who rip s0ccer and ignore it are putting their heads in the sand.

I've heard this **** about s****r for 30 years. Americans will play, but they will not watch. Baseball may lose some people, but it will be fine. Football will stay king, but parents will most likely move more towards baseball because of head injuries. It would be nice if we could get more African-Americans interested. As a black father it is perplexing why my son is usually the only black kid on the field.

My wife and I were talking about this the other night as we took in a Volleyball game at son's University. There were easily 10 times the number of student fans at that game than there are for an average baseball game at the same school.

I think that with the advent of IPAD's, smartphones, texting, etc. that the average young person's attention span is just not what it used to be and to really enjoy a baseball game, a game without a clock, you have to be able to sit back and enjoy a game that is measured in innings not time.

From the business world, this generations attention span will also have an impact if it hasn't already. I have been in meetings with my clients and the younger employees that are present just can't stand the meeting going for more than a half hour without their "tech" fix.

RJM, do you have the average age of the WS fan of past WS (like 10, 20 years ago?) That would be interesting to see in comparison.

I'm with Aleebaba in that I wouldn't get too worked up over the soc*cer issue because the same stuff has been said for a long time. It will be decades before soc*cer does become relevant because we can't offer a viable professional product. I can't remember if it was this summer or last and not sure of all the details but I know that a professional team from England came to America and thrashed an all star team from the MLS. Until there is a viable professional league that can compete internationally then s****r will never catch on in America. Right now American soc*cer is equivilent to "A" baseball in comparison to the rest of the world.

Soc*cer is popular among America's youth because it's the ADD sport. You mark off a field, throw some nets up and let the kids kick a ball for an hour or two. No real strategy and it keeps their attention because they are chasing the ball back and forth. Parents can drop their kid off and know they will be occupied for a couple of hours.

Soc*cer is a cult too. Once you enter into a league the season never ends. You go from this league to that league to indoor soc*cer and then back outside. There's no time to do anything else in regards to other sports. Once they identify a kid with some athletic ability then it gets worse in occupying their time.

Baseball is killing itself off with LL turning into a political sport with the worst athletes in most areas playing. LL used to be about helping to develop kids in baseball but now it's becoming "what can it do for me" or "how can I be the president since I have all the answers". This is pushing most kids to travel, select, etc.... team you want to name it. I will readily admit that if a kid can get on the right team he can get seriously better due to the better teaching but the vast majority of teams are either daddy ball or money makers. This gives baseball an elitest feel that will drive the lower income kids away.

Cost is another factor in that baseball is pricing itself out of America. A new bat is $250, glove is $125 and cleats are $120. Factor in private lessons at $50 a week (or whatever it is in your area) and you're looking at a lot of money that needs to be spent. Now there goes the casual middle income family and only the upper income and hardcore middle income families are willing to spend the money.

College baseball will never be big because the weather stinks. When only half the country is able to really play for about half the season it's not going to be popular. As for the attendance being better at volleyball games....well can you blame them? Have you seen those uniforms they wear? Plus watching two good volleyball teams go at it is fun to watch. Those are some amazing athletes on the court wearing skimpy uniforms. I have never figured out how those spandex shorts help you perform better than basketball shorts.

Baseball will be taking a hit in the future but it only has itself to blame. But it doesn't have to worry about soc*cer.

I think we might be over thinking it. RJM hit on a good part of it.

Without parents or family influence that have had experience or are at least fans of baseball, it can be a battle for kids to get started with baseball.

Why?

Let's look at different sports from a YOUNG kid's point of view, a kid that doesn't have Dad throwing / catching / hitting with him all the time.

S****r - At the young ages you have to run and kick the ball.

Football - You catch it, you maybe throw it and you run.

Basketball - Throw the ball in the hoop.

Baseball - You have to learn to catch it...in the air on off the ground. You have to learn to throw it...and probably the hardest thing..you have to learn to hit it.

quote:

Originally posted by Backstop-17:
My wife and I were talking about this the other night as we took in a Volleyball game at son's University. There were easily 10 times the number of student fans at that game than there are for an average baseball game at the same school. …

When you made the observation about there being 10 times the number of fans there than for an average baseball game, did you think very deeply about why that was, or did you just buy into the cable TV sound bites, or the twitter length explanations in print?

Since I don’t know where your son goes to school, and the fact that college sports can be very different indeed, depending on the school, I’ll attempt to show you what happens along the baseball “timeline”.

When Jr or Jrette first start in LL Inc or an organization like it that focuses mainly on the 12U crowd, everything possible is done to make sure that if mom & dad want to see their child play, they get the opportunity. Weekday games never start prior to school being over for the day, and seldom before the normal workday is over, because there are adults needed for everything from coaching to umpiring. Then there are those great Saturday gigs that allow those poor shift workers or travelers to at least catch 1 game that week. Then too, look where the games are being played. In general, that age group tends to play much closer to home, so there isn’t a great deal of travel involved.

Now look at HS ball for a comparison. 1st of all, look when the season starts. Ever been to a mid-Feb HS baseball game in the Upper Peninsula of Mi? How about Madison Wi? In a big part of the county, HS baseball games don’t get played until late Mar or mid-Apr. Then throw in when they’re played. Different dynamic here. These games are normally started right around the time school lets out. That’s because the coaches are usually already there, and the umpires get paid to be there. But many parents can’t just walk off the job, and in this economy, even some that can won’t. And even if a school is lucky enough to have lights, how uncomfortable does it get watching a game at 8:30 at night.

How does that compare to going to a nice heated gym to watch a volleyball or basketball game, or suffering the weather once a week for a Fri night or Sat football game? Some places like here, play about a third of the games, at least 30 miles away. Heck, for me its 23 miles to our home field to score the game, and there’s only one field closer! Yes, I’m sure there is a bit of the “baseball’s boring” syndrome going on, but in large part its because HS baseball is very often set up to minimize fan support. And that isn’t even mentioning the travel.

Youth baseball at 12 and under is sometimes its worst enemy. Unqualified coaches with boring practices( one kid hits while everyone stands around) and the same kids playing the same positions every game driving kids away in droves claiming "its boring!" USA hockey mandates coaches go to a clinic to be certified where they at least learn useful drills.

Other sports offer more "touches of the ball" for everyone and kids are at least moving. The other sports can usually be played pickup style in a smaller area with just a two kids. You need to head out to a park or have some land to hit the ball around.

Its our responsibility to raise them right.
Baseball, basketball, & football (American football).

While I respect those that pursue s****r, it wasn't my boys interest as a sport. Both sons played a version of it at pre-K age and soon moved on to traditional sports starting with baseball. In our metro area, youth baseball & girls softball now outnumber s****r by a wide margain, & there is no Little League baseball. Local youth baseball numbers are actually on a rise.

In respect to LAX, it is barely on the map here. The 14-16 y/o boys our family knows who locally play LAX, for the most part, (honestly) failed at baseball, basketball, & football, with many of them playing it for a sense of belonging. That said, it's nothing like what we've seen in other parts of the country with relatives & family friends who play LAX very competitively on their HS & travel teams & were good at about anything they played youth sports wise.

quote:

Originally posted by sportsdad&fan:
Youth baseball at 12 and under is sometimes its worst enemy. Unqualified coaches with boring practices( one kid hits while everyone stands around) and the same kids playing the same positions every game driving kids away in droves claiming "its boring!" USA hockey mandates coaches go to a clinic to be certified where they at least learn useful drills.

Sadly, that’s true in more cases than is necessary. I think a lot of why there’s no mandate for baseball certificates, is that there’s still a common “belief” that almost every American boy plays baseball and knows a great deal about it. That was true at one time in our nation’s history, but not anymore. Luckily though, the sheer weight of all the knowledge running around out there has crept into the national discussion, and a result is that the general quality of coaches at every level has improved. It just takes longer that way.

quote:

Other sports offer more "touches of the ball" for everyone and kids are at least moving. The other sports can usually be played pickup style in a smaller area with just a two kids. You need to head out to a park or have some land to hit the ball around.

I don’t think you quite understand what was going on in the youth baseball world in the 50’s and before. Sock balls, were probably the most popular, but I remember playing with all kinds of ball substitutes so we could play in someone’s front yard without worrying about breaking windows.

And I can remember the stir the 1st wiffle balls made. Heck, there were 3 “stadiums set up in my neighborhood, complete with string fences, so we wouldn’t have to use the fields if we only had a few kids available. And when PG balls became popular, it was an amazing transformation that took place. Not only didn’t golfers need to go to the course to practice full swings, the kids could swipe dad’s PG balls and smack the snot out of them with sticks and bats of all kinds.

Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on your perspective, all the “organized” baseball has had a definite effect on the youth game. Now-a-days many kids don’t understand how to play the game without a rule book and adults, because they’ve never had to entertain themselves. Here’s a “test” I’ve challenged many people to take, but very few have.

Use 2 teams from your local 12U league, which is normally 24 players. Take them to the local park on a Saturday morning, and drop them off with all the equipment necessary to play baseball, along with these simple instructions. Choose up 4 teams of 6 players each, then have each team play a 4 inning game against every other team. Then, the two teams with the most wins play each other for the “championship”. Players who’s teams aren’t playing have to be umpires, coaches, do field maintenance, or run the snack bar. Then tell the kids they’re on their own, and leave.

12U’s when I was that age would be playing a game in less than 15 minutes, and the teams would be fairly equal, usually with some strange ground rules. What about today’s kids? And I don’t intend that to mean today’s kids are stupid! They’re just not exposed to all the things necessary to pull something like that off. In the last 15 years I’ve had 3 people actually give it try in one form or another, and they all said the same thing. The kids had a blast!

I’m not saying to do it every day, or suggesting that all organized ball be done away with. I’m just saying that there are lots of ways to approach the game to make it more interesting and therefore less boring.

quote:

Originally posted by Stats4Gnats:

quote:

Originally posted by sportsdad&fan:
Youth baseball at 12 and under is sometimes its worst enemy. Unqualified coaches with boring practices( one kid hits while everyone stands around) and the same kids playing the same positions every game driving kids away in droves claiming "its boring!" USA hockey mandates coaches go to a clinic to be certified where they at least learn useful drills.

Sadly, that’s true in more cases than is necessary. I think a lot of why there’s no mandate for baseball certificates, is that there’s still a common “belief” that almost every American boy plays baseball and knows a great deal about it. That was true at one time in our nation’s history, but not anymore. Luckily though, the sheer weight of all the knowledge running around out there has crept into the national discussion, and a result is that the general quality of coaches at every level has improved. It just takes longer that way.

quote:

Other sports offer more "touches of the ball" for everyone and kids are at least moving. The other sports can usually be played pickup style in a smaller area with just a two kids. You need to head out to a park or have some land to hit the ball around.

I don’t think you quite understand what was going on in the youth baseball world in the 50’s and before. Sock balls, were probably the most popular, but I remember playing with all kinds of ball substitutes so we could play in someone’s front yard without worrying about breaking windows.

And I can remember the stir the 1st wiffle balls made. Heck, there were 3 “stadiums set up in my neighborhood, complete with string fences, so we wouldn’t have to use the fields if we only had a few kids available. And when PG balls became popular, it was an amazing transformation that took place. Not only didn’t golfers need to go to the course to practice full swings, the kids could swipe dad’s PG balls and smack the snot out of them with sticks and bats of all kinds.

Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on your perspective, all the “organized” baseball has had a definite effect on the youth game. Now-a-days many kids don’t understand how to play the game without a rule book and adults, because they’ve never had to entertain themselves. Here’s a “test” I’ve challenged many people to take, but very few have.

Use 2 teams from your local 12U league, which is normally 24 players. Take them to the local park on a Saturday morning, and drop them off with all the equipment necessary to play baseball, along with these simple instructions. Choose up 4 teams of 6 players each, then have each team play a 4 inning game against every other team. Then, the two teams with the most wins play each other for the “championship”. Players who’s teams aren’t playing have to be umpires, coaches, do field maintenance, or run the snack bar. Then tell the kids they’re on their own, and leave.

12U’s when I was that age would be playing a game in less than 15 minutes, and the teams would be fairly equal, usually with some strange ground rules. What about today’s kids? And I don’t intend that to mean today’s kids are stupid! They’re just not exposed to all the things necessary to pull something like that off. In the last 15 years I’ve had 3 people actually give it try in one form or another, and they all said the same thing. The kids had a blast!

I’m not saying to do it every day, or suggesting that all organized ball be done away with. I’m just saying that there are lots of ways to approach the game to make it more interesting and therefore less boring.

Why?

Generally letting kids be on their own is a lost concept.

When I was 9 or 10 years old bicycles were the same as giving a kid car keys is now. We roamed miles from our houses independent of parental supervision in totally unstructered activities all summer and after school.

If a parent allowed that now they are considered irresponsible so everything is structured.

The end result is too many kids growning up that have a hard time operating independently and parents that can't let go too much of the time.

Back on the baseball issue...when all the Latino immigrants join the middle class in the next 25 years baseball's fan base will be rejuvenated. S****r will be first with that group but I think it's possible baseball will edge out football.

quote:

Originally posted by luv baseball:
Generally letting kids be on their own is a lost concept.

When I was 9 or 10 years old bicycles were the same as giving a kid car keys is now. We roamed miles from our houses independent of parental supervision in totally unstructered activities all summer and after school.

If a parent allowed that now they are considered irresponsible so everything is structured.

Reminds me of my younger years. I had to change the tread on my bike tires many times due to excesive wear. Unfortunatly, i am not sure there are many kids these days that ever wear a set of bike tires out.

Nope. Bust'em up doing X games stuff on ramps and get a new one at Christmas or birthday every year.

I had the same bike for 4-5 years and got the scare of my life when a tire blew out in my face using the air hose at a gas station. I got a 10 speed at 12 or 13. Man that was huge!

quote:

Look outside of the addiction we have and our kids have for baseball. What does this number say about the future of baseball?

That average age figure is interesting but it doesn't say much about the future of baseball. It does say a lot about the sports television consumption habitats of folks in the younger age ranges (mainly the coveted 18 to 34 demographic that drives most TV advertising).

Anecdotally speaking, very few kids in the baseball program my son plays in care to watch televised baseball. The program director implores the kids to watch wholes games on TV and avoid Sportscenter ("the only thing you learn by watching highlights is how to 'pimp' your bat" he says). But those same kids are doing 3 S&C workouts a week, hitting 3 (or more in most cases) cages a week, throwing a bullpen, and attending team activities (pick one: a pitching/catching clinic, an infield camp, an outfield camp) every week, 11 and a half months of the year.

Oh yeah, and they're all hammering homework five days a week, because unlike some other sports, they'll have to make admissions to play in college. And what about those with an interest in golf, or a musical instrument, or who have a girlfriend? When it comes down to the hour and half or so of free time these kids might have in an ordinary day, they just might not want to fill it watching televised baseball.

To me, that's not the least bit worrisome for the future of the sport, because I don't believe TV viewing habits have any relationship to that future. Instead, the dedication and sacrifice of these very same kids leads me to believe the sport's future is VERY safe. Considering the rapid advances in the approach to training and teaching these young amateur players, the ability level and athleticism of baseball players will continue to advance through the years and game will always be entertaining. Even if it's only us over-40 types that care to take in televised games.

My son has always been the same way. Loves to play, just doesn't care that much about watching. Maybe it's because there's so much baseball on TV. Not like it was when I was a kid when all you had was Gowdy, Kubek, and Garagiola doing the Game of the Week. Beats me.

quote:

Originally posted by tres_arboles:
Anecdotally speaking, very few kids in the baseball program my son plays in care to watch televised baseball.

MLB network serves the youth well. The format definetly appeals to the younger crowd. Me,after a long day. I like listening to Tim McCarver drone on, pretty much is equalivant to a lobotomy. Takes the edge off the day with no worries of a DUI if you have to leave the house

quote:

Originally posted by Stats4Gnats:

quote:

Originally posted by Backstop-17:
My wife and I were talking about this the other night as we took in a Volleyball game at son's University. There were easily 10 times the number of student fans at that game than there are for an average baseball game at the same school. …

When you made the observation about there being 10 times the number of fans there than for an average baseball game, did you think very deeply about why that was, or did you just buy into the cable TV sound bites, or the twitter length explanations in print?

Since I don’t know where your son goes to school, and the fact that college sports can be very different indeed, depending on the school, I’ll attempt to show you what happens along the baseball “timeline”.

When Jr or Jrette first start in LL Inc or an organization like it that focuses mainly on the 12U crowd, everything possible is done to make sure that if mom & dad want to see their child play, they get the opportunity. Weekday games never start prior to school being over for the day, and seldom before the normal workday is over, because there are adults needed for everything from coaching to umpiring. Then there are those great Saturday gigs that allow those poor shift workers or travelers to at least catch 1 game that week. Then too, look where the games are being played. In general, that age group tends to play much closer to home, so there isn’t a great deal of travel involved.

Now look at HS ball for a comparison. 1st of all, look when the season starts. Ever been to a mid-Feb HS baseball game in the Upper Peninsula of Mi? How about Madison Wi? In a big part of the county, HS baseball games don’t get played until late Mar or mid-Apr. Then throw in when they’re played. Different dynamic here. These games are normally started right around the time school lets out. That’s because the coaches are usually already there, and the umpires get paid to be there. But many parents can’t just walk off the job, and in this economy, even some that can won’t. And even if a school is lucky enough to have lights, how uncomfortable does it get watching a game at 8:30 at night.

How does that compare to going to a nice heated gym to watch a volleyball or basketball game, or suffering the weather once a week for a Fri night or Sat football game? Some places like here, play about a third of the games, at least 30 miles away. Heck, for me its 23 miles to our home field to score the game, and there’s only one field closer! Yes, I’m sure there is a bit of the “baseball’s boring” syndrome going on, but in large part its because HS baseball is very often set up to minimize fan support. And that isn’t even mentioning the travel.

Sir, you might consider taking a different tone in the way you come off using posts on here to pivot into your excellent statistical based discussions. You could have presented the above analysis without even quoting me and it would have held up on its own.

I grew up in northern Michigan, and played baseball through high school, so I remember all those things you point out, and agree with your complete analysis that ended at the HS level. You could have added that the football games in high school had 50 players, the entire band, 10-20 cheerleaders, the pom-pon squad, the dance team, at least 2 equipment managers, 2 guys carrying the chains, 2 ball boys and hence all of those parents/friends of those personnel attending each game vs a baseball game with 15-25 baseball players and maybe a good high school manager and/or scorekeeper in tow.

My post, the one you chose to use as an opening for your very good historical and factually based baseball timeline, was talking about The University of Tampa where it can be somewhat mild in February, and even on occasion reach the high 40's low 50's for an evening baseball game. I now understand that you could never have known my son was going to school there, so I do apologize I left out that important fact. About 80% of the University of Tampa student fans live within 10 minutes walking distance to both the baseball field and gymnasium where the volleyball is played. So the ability to travel to a game or match for your average student is dependent upon turning left at the s****r field or keep going straight ahead.

While I agree with your little league through HS baseball analysis, I still stand by the twitter based, cable tv analysis I performed to come to my conclusion why baseball student attendance is not as high at UT as volleyball is. And for the person who mentioned the short shorts of the Volleyball team - that thought never crossed my mind, I'll have to pay more attention next time.

I'm telling ya it's the short shorts which makes volleyball more popular. Trust me if my college had volleyball when I was there I have no doubt that me and all my buddies on the baseball team would have been there.

coach

with the chance of a beach volleyball breaking out. i'm looking for volleyball often.

quote:

Originally posted by Backstop-17:
Sir, you might consider taking a different tone in the way you come off using posts on here to pivot into your excellent statistical based discussions. You could have presented the above analysis without even quoting me and it would have held up on its own.

I quoted you because what you said inspired me enough to comment, not to embarrass or denigrate you.

I grew up in Ohio, spent from 1966 thru 1970 stationed in the UP, and spent from ’76 thru ’81 in Omaha, so I think I have a wide variety of northern experiences to draw on. But noting in my experience compares to the UP for winters, which is why it came to mind immediately.

I live in Sacramento now and have for the last 29 years, and have spent 5 years in the San Joaquin Valley, and another 2 on Guam, so I think I also have a pretty fair background in sun belt living as well as snow belt living. The location does have a profound effect on the baseball season, but its only in degree because in the colder climes, they simply start the season later, and then try to cram in as much as they can before school lets out. That’s a primary reason why the pitching limitations vary so much.

Speaking only of HS, IMHO, there are a couple of states who discard the traditional HS baseball season, and play into the summer. If trying to make HSB more popular with the fans, that would be the way to go, if for no other reason than baseball is a warm weather sport. For college ball, the wicket gets a bit stickier.

There are many very good reasons for a low attendance of folks of all ages at baseball games vs other sports, like volleyball, and that’s really too bad, but it hasn’t changed much in the last 50 years that I’m aware of. But I think the main reason is, at its base, baseball is really a very cerebral game. Not that you have to be smart to play it, but that it takes a great deal of thought to understand its subtleties. People don’t want to have to think about sports, because its entertainment. So, not many people outside of the game really understand why a lot of the things that take place are done.

In our area LL baseball coaches blamed inline hockey for declining interest in baseball

In the northeast, low attendance for baseball has much to do with the fact that games are played in the afternoon, when prospective 'fans' are doing other things. I can't think of any local high schools, or colleges, that have lights on their baseball fields. Sports like football, basketball, volleyball, lacrosse, kickball... many times they are played on Saturday, or at night, after dinner, as the main event.

Maybe it's just local but go to any Phillies game and you will see many people in the 20's and 30's at the game. This inculdes a large number of women. The place has a party feel to it and has become a place to go and hang with friends. Go to any of the college campuses here and you will see plenty of Philles gear and hear discussion about this player and that. To me, as long as they have an exciting and winning team they can draw and grow new fans to the game.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
Courtesy of Sports Business Daily - Average age of World Series viewer: 52.5

Look outside of the addiction we have and our kids have for baseball. What does this number say about the future of baseball? To me it says the average viewer is one that grew up with baseball being THE sport. Most of us on this site grew up with baseball being THE sport. We all played LL. Everyone did. It was a given. What happens to youth baseball and the future of baseball when a lot of dads grew up on lacrosse and s0ccer rather than baseball steer their kids towards those sports?

During this years series I assumed my son would be watching with a bunch of his teammates. I was surprised to hear him say that hardly any of his teammates were watching the game, and instead were texting, playing video games, etc. He also said most of them thought he was strange to want to watch the series when "there were so many other things to do".
The advent of s****r moms and over protective/indulgent parents have helped to steal several generations away from baseball. That combined with games coming on so late at night that little ones are put to bed or fall asleep after a few innings. Who will be the fans of the future?

RJM- Agree with a lot of what I'm reading....but part of it is the start times! My son wanted to watch the Tigers (we are originally from Michigan) play, but the games were past his bed time on school nights nearly every time.
Wish there was some way to fix that but I understand ratings and everything else drives the game times. Late start times hurt young kids, though -

Start times don't matter to me. It is the World Series!! Bed times exist the rest of the year. Make it a festive holiday for your kids. Sleeping bags and popcorn in front of the TV. Make some memories with your kids.

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
I'm telling ya it's the short shorts which makes volleyball more popular. Trust me if my college had volleyball when I was there I have no doubt that me and all my buddies on the baseball team would have been there.

They had volleyball at my JC back in the day....and we were there to watch the girls not the game!

My son started going to volleyball games as a freshman. Nobody we know plays. I went to pick him up one night from the game and I was early so I walked in to watch. I realized why they were there and why the crowd was 80% hs boys and 20% parents.

Not really seeing a demise. Sure, unlikely todays youth will sit through an entire game, but they are watching.Sport Center, Mlb Network etc... To all you back in the day guys what was available then. LL and the game of the week. Today there's LL, travel ball, travel elite, showcases, college camps it goes on and on. I'm sure PG has done quite nicely on the ambivelance of todays youth towards baseball.This was probably the same conversation fans of radio were having when T.V was introduced.

.
Have said this before...While the shift to away from community youth ball may produce better players it produces lass fans. The demise of community youth ball as challenging as it is...will ultimatley have a huge impact on the fan base of MLB. Increasingly smaller % of kids will identify baseball with life...and seek it as a right of passage for their sons, and see the game as part of their history. Every other sport is eagerly and voracioulsy seeking the high % of partcipation that baseball has begun to toss aside...it used to be a monopoly and now it is a fair game with little will on the part of baseball to play the #'s game and horde all the youth as it once did. While the shift to away from community youth ball may produce better players...it also produces lass fans.

44
.

Everytime I talk to my son at school he says I'll call you back later.

I ask what's going on and he said he and some of his teammates are going to watch the womens volleyball team play. LOL

Just saying

I have lamented this for quite a while.

Across the street from my house is an old ballfield. Not much to it, just a dirt field with a backstop and enough space to keep ARods baseballs in play. Essentially a huge field with a dirt infield.

At one time kids played on the field. My neighbors recounted that 15 years earlier the kids were playing pick up games there and teams practiced there.

It seems to have gone completely. About five years ago I made cleaning up the field my priority, tearing out weeds, putting down grass killer, removing rocks from the infield and cutting the grass to make it appealing to the kids. I spent a fair amount of time practicing with my son there as he grew up but never saw any pick up games being played there. When I was a kid I would have killed for a field like this, we played in a rock encrusted field where you were more likely to need a tetanus shot after playing than anything else.

I brought my son's youth baseball team there once for a practice because there were no other fields available. The kids complaining was bad enough (no 'real bases', the infield was actually dirt, no dugouts) but the parents were almost as bad. It seems like the mentality these days is that if the playing area isn't like Fenway then it is beneath our son's for practice. At the same time these same parents complained about the cost to have the boys play-and this was rec level ball.