how fast do you need to pitch for D3?

       
       
depending on where you go the requirement may be just to be able to throw at all!  But yes 80+ will be just fine.

I'm sure it will depend on the conference, but I've seen pitchers in the low 80s. What I've noticed is that they also throw a good breaking ball for strikes.

 

I've observed that the zone is different. You'll get the low strike called more, so being able to locate the pitch down is important.

 

My son isn't a pitcher so I haven't really studied this, so these are my general observations. Others will have given it more thought.

Many contributing factors here.  The competitiveness of the program comes to mind.  Salisbury University in MD is a top/nationally ranked D3.  I have no idea what their pitchers are throwing on average, but they all have great command of the strike zone. 

You can leverage info on the internets to get some info:

 

Find the website for a D3 team that you think would be a good target for your son. Pull up the stats and pick the top pitchers.  Then go to perfectgame.org and do a player search. More like that not you'll get at least a hit or two, possibly with velocity numbers.

It is one thing to make the team throwing in the low 80's, it is quite another to make the starting rotation. 

Son was a lefty throwing in the mid 80's, that was good enough for many programs. Not so good for others. 

Quite a few righties come into his program throwning low to mid 80's, Unless they have really good command and cna learn to throw a curve and a change up, they don't get a lot if time.

Research the schools your son is interested in and post some of those schools. Most likely a poster will have some information on the pitchers in that program. 

High Academic does not mean lower tier baseball at the D3 level. Or any level really. 

Great suggestion JCG.

 

Using your strategy, I sampled two schools, Cornell and Caltech. About half of Cornell's pitchers show up in PG, with lowest FB at 84, highest at 89. The pitchers that are not in PG, should I assume they pitcher slower? For Caltech, only 1 pitcher showed up in PG, with FB at 81.

 

Will research more when I have spare time.

I see that your son is a 2018.  I think the most helpful thought for you and him is that it is generally much tougher to make it at any level of college than most think.  It's not something he'll be able to do "just for fun" as he makes his way through his college years.  It takes commitment and a decent level of ability. 

 

I hear some say that there is a school for every player and a decent HS player can find a school to play at but I don't see that play out in this part of the country.  I've seen countless all-league players cut from JC, D3 and NAIA programs.  I do believe that D3 has the widest range of quality of play and players.  But the bottom tier programs take a pounding while playing bad baseball.  If that describes the type of program/s your son is targeting, he'll have to ask himself if that's what he really wants.

 

For reference, one of our former players is at one of the better D3's here in California.  As a junior transfer, he sits 87-88, touches 90 and has a decent slider.  He is successful but caught in an ongoing competition to stay in the rotation.

 

   

Not all players targeting D3 go to PG events. So pitchers that are not in PG, does not inherently mean they throw slower.

DO NOT USE CAL TECH AS AN EXAMPLE. The acceptance rate at Cal tech is so low, that they cannot do much recruiting. I have the impression a lot of the players on Cal Tech were accepted into the school and tried out for the team.  I read an article on Tennis at Cal Tech and that is the impression I received from that article. Over at the D3 Boards there are discussion every year whether Cal Tech should go to club ball. 

If your son can get into Call Tech the last thing I would worry about is if he could play baseball there. IF he can get in go there even if Baseball is not part of the picture. 

I probably don't have to tell you that Caltech is possibly the least competitive program in college baseball history.  They don't just lose, they get hammered repeatedly.  So, even if this is the right school for son academically (if so, congrats!), I would not use their current P's velo as a baseline.  I would encourage son to surpass and be the best he can be.  Maybe he can be part of improving such a program.

Looks like we were cross posting CabbageDad,

 

Cabbage Dad as usual has made excellent point.

 

 

Understood. I was trying to find the spectrum, and thought Caltech would be a good floor of the range. Cornell may be a good mid-range. Not sure which D3 high academic would be the top -- Dartmouth? Columbia?

 

Cornell, like all of the Ivy League teams, is in Division I.

Got it. At this stage, we are in info-gathering mode, so we can make informed decisions.

 

I went to a seminar on college athletic recruiting, and the speaker said to focus on a college that kids can live with even without baseball. He said the average playing career for a college athlete is something like 1.5 seasons. So if you go to a school just for baseball, and you got cut from the team the second season, you'll be completely lost.

Based on the interest my son had from some D3's here in Ohio...and knowing several 2015's who are doing D3, I'd say 80+ with at least one good secondary pitch that you can control will get you a shot.  Maybe not at the best of the best....but you'll likely find a place somewhere.  Again, as a couple others have said, that doesn't mean you'll be starting.  College seniors are 21-22 years old....and many were 80-82 their senior year in HS....but get bigger and stronger throughout college.  Most starters are mid-upper 80's...and you'll occasionally see a closer hitting 90.

 

There is a wealth of info and experience on college recruiting on this site, but I think you found the most important bit of wisdom  before you got here.

       
       
Buckeye this is a great point that needed making.  Most of these D3's that are upper 80's got that way in college.  If they were throwing 87 or 88 in high school they wouldn't be there except of course by choice.

Oops, big blunder on my part ...

 

Somehow I got this impression from reading an article on this web site about Yale:

 

This situation is not uncommon in the Yale athletic recruitment process. One obstacle that the Bulldog program has to overcome each year is asking a student-athlete to choose to attend Yale instead of accepting an athletic scholarship at a different program.

"Yale, in general, loses a good number of student athletes who are qualified by our standards," said Tim Taylor, head coach of the men's ice hockey team. "We lose them to scholarship programs, and there are lots of situations where  kids and their families say that Yale would be their first choice, but they are sitting on a full scholarship. 'While Yale is a better education, we have to go [with the athletic scholarship]."

 

I thought a college need to provide scholarship to athletes to be classified as D1?

Ivy's do not provide athletic scholarships even though they are D1.  The Ivy league is the only D1 conference that this applies to.  Even further, I believe all Ivy's provide only need based assistance for tuition.  If you make below a certain amount, you pay X in tuition.  If you make between certain amounts, you pay different and if you make over a certain amount, you pay full tuition.  I don't believe they even offer academic money.

Bogeyorpar:

 

I see you are in Washington.  Take your son next season to go see Univ. of Puget Sound, or Lewis and Clark College, or Willamette or Whitman (the four highest academic schools in the D3 Northwest Conference - none of whom have made the playoffs in probably over a decade, at least) Watch them play on a conference-play weekend, so that you see first hand the level of overall quality the top starters and relievers are for these schools.

 

Then, your son can see if he thinks he can stack-up.

I do not believe the Patriot League offers scholarships for baseball.

One of the reasons for the 1.5 is self cuts. Young men and women get into the school and decide that the work is not worth the effort and decide to focus on academics. Especially at the high academic schools. 

This is a great point.  Last spring at this time, my son was getting his first real attention from some mid-major D1's.  Without telling him, I went to a DH on a Sunday with 2 mid-majors that are in the same conference as a couple of schools recruiting my son.  I did it to see for myself if my son could "play" with those guys....not just be on the team...as him and sitting on the bench would not go well....lol.   I watched the game as objectively as I could....comparing his skills to the guys on the field.  I left feeling he would fit in very well at either of those schools.  He ended up committing to one of them (though they hadn't yet contacted him at the time I went to watch).  I went home....told him where I had gone and told him that if his goal was to play D1...that I really thought he could make it playing with and against those guys.

I thought the poster was talking about Cornell College.

 

http://www.cornellrams.com/sport/12/3.php

 

The Rams are in the Midwest conference.

 

http://www.midwestconference.o...all&tab=baseball

 

Great points. Quite a few former players from his summer team are playing for Univ. of Puget Sound, and a friend's son is playing for Whitman. I should plan to watch a few games in the NW conf., with my Pocket Radar, to get some first hand data.

 

BTW, this is the ranking for the west region from NCAA's site:

 

WEST REGION	Region
Rank	Institution	In-Division win-loss pct	Overall WL Pct
1	Pacific Lutheran	23-7-0 ( 0.767)	26-9-0 ( 0.743)
2	Linfield	25-9-0 ( 0.735)	27-10-0 ( 0.730)
3	Texas-Tyler	25-9-0 ( 0.735)	26-10-0 ( 0.722)
4	Concordia (TX)	25-8-0 ( 0.758)	25-8-0 ( 0.758)
5	Cal Lutheran	25-10-0 ( 0.714)	25-10-0 ( 0.714)
6	Pomona-Pitzer	25-10-0 ( 0.714)	25-10-0 ( 0.714)

 

The top 2 are all within my driving distance.

 

In this group, though, looks like only Pomona is high academic.

Correct. Although financial aid may be labeled as a "scholarship" it is in fact a financial aid grant based on ability to pay.

Both of my sons played D III at a very good program, Christopher Newport University, that plays a solid schedule every year. We saw some RHP's that threw low 90's although the "average", if there is such a thing, top of the rotation guy was probably upper 80's. LHP's in mid-80s can pitch at any level, if they have good control and know how to pitch (i.e., mix speeds, work fast, throw strikes). Our Valley League team (summer ball) has had 2 D III pitchers drafted, a RHP from CNU that threw 91-93 and a RHP from Kean that threw 92-93. Both are doing well professionally, continuing to climb the ladder. Both had excellent control, knew how to pitch, and had that oh-so-helpful bulldog mentality.

Bogeyorpar,

I am not quite sure how much recruiting actually would occur at a not-so-stellar but high academic D3.  Just a hunch but I am thinking the grades, test scores and other admission factors are far more important than 80+ for the  types of programs you are asking about, in terms of recruiting.

Once admitted, if the programs is not-so-stellar, I would think 82-84 could be attractive for a coaching staff. 

With that said, that velocity is not likely to be successful more than one time through a decent D3 batting order.  From my observations, I would think the ability to command other pitches in 3-1, 2-0 counts is going to be far more valuable against average and especially to above average D3 hitters.  Our son's college roommate was a D3 All-American as  senior and he was 83-85. However, he had pin point control and also could command 3 other pitches in any count.  He could succeed because he could really pitch and could really command.  He could not succeed based on velocity alone, though.

Infielddad:

 

While I agree with your thoughts on pitching velocity/success, I can assure you that the type of coaches/programs you refer to in the sentence I bolded, at least on the West Coast, are definitely out recruiting baseball players, hard.  They're not sitting on their couch all summer watching MLB TV....  For various reasons, they may not be as successful at landing recruits, but, they are actively recruiting baseball players.

You are getting some good advice, but I would add that you should go see college teams play at different levels. I wish I had done more of this with my son.  It is a good way to calibrate.

There is no one answer to this....if you look at some of the more successfull D3 programs you can find their kids on Perfect Game and they throw in the low 80s. But there are many, many programs where you cannot find one pitcher listed on Prefect Game, which means they likely were not playing for a top level travel club. My own son only throws high 70s but has great control of 3 pitches and has lots of interest. D3 is such a wide range even within the conferences. NESCAC has schools like Amherst and Wesleyan that take it very seriously and recruit and are getting kids who could have played low D1 but want the academics. Williams, Middlebury are getting kids who had no D1 shot at all.

 

Interest is vastly different from recruited.  High academic D3s tend to cast a wide net because very few recruits meet their academic thresholds and very few meet their requirements as baseball players.  It is a small pool of candidates.

 

Coaches will further whittle down those interested candidates into recruits based upon who they know they can get admitted and who posseses more baseball skill and fulfills their positional needs.  So, what it amounts to is an exercise in relativity.  Relatively speaking a recruit has a much better chance of being offered and recruited if he has better academics AND is a better baseball player than all the other recruits.  So, potentially you are not just fighting a radar gun but also another recruits SAT or ACT scores.  So, the best thing to do is to cast a wide net because you are dealing with low admissions rates and recruits with similiar baseball skills and academic profiles.

 

Good luck!

Fenway,

 

You can't leave this board until my 2016 starts college.  As always, sharing great knowledge!

 

Been through this at D1 with my 2012.  The D3 world is so different.  Learning a lot every day. 

 

Keep posting...I'm a slow learner...

Great Topic. My 2016 is looking at D2s&/D3s in the midwest. The key for him is that he is a LHP. We began taking visits and meeting coaches last fall and every one said the same thing, you know how to pitch you just need velocity. They love his change-up and when is curve ball is on its falls of the table. With the being said several of these coaches saw him before he started to condition with a local sports performance center, and throwing weight balls during the winter (6oz and 4oz). His velocity went from 76-78 to 80-82 and the coaches have noticed.

 

This past week during a visit I asked a coach what he looks for in his pitchers. He said, "6'3" 220 with a 90 plus fastball and a devastating braking pitch, then laughed. Everybody wants that. What we really need is guys with good control, who consistently throw strikes, especially on the first pitch."

How about the reverse topic?  How fast of a pitcher does a D3 hitter need to be able to hit? My 2017 is looking at D3 schools, and from what I've seen I'd say that he can   square up a fastball in the heart of the zone up to at least 90.  Unfortunately, good breaking balls and fastballs on the corners are a different matter!

I never paid attention to D3 baseball until this Spring, but have probably watched 20+ games trying to get a gauge of the landscape and trying to learn what I can.  My 2015 recently committed to a high academic D3, He is RHP 84-88, and maxed at 90-91 mph in most HS games this season and he has command and 3 pitches.  Why is he playing D3? Because that is where he wants to be and you see that pattern at many places in D3.  In my 2015's class, they are also bringing in a lefty at 82 mph. This is a program that advanced to the D3 CWS and did very well. So the spectrum is wildly broad but I think this is a solid top end bandwidth to consider.  I have seen multiple kids on the mound and at the plate that can play D1 and a few that struggle at the D3 level.  I can't echo enough that like the taste in wine and women, there is no right answer here.  I have seen kids touch 93 and upper 70's/low 80's.  Find the schools your son has interest in.  Even at the best D3 programs they need kids that can throw strikes and work hard and if he can do that, he will find the place where he wants to be and where they want him, I'm sure of it.    And lastly, you're doing right thing, I have been reading this board for several years, but never posted until recently.  I can't tell you the amount of sound advice and perspective I gained for free. I hope your son finds his happy place. 

JCG,

 

Like pitching it all depends on the level of team you are talking about. Top 20 teams have about 4-6 hitters who can hit as well as a lot players at D1 schools. The real difference between top programs and lower level ones are in the depth of the roster or it drops off a lot after 3 batters. Bottom of the order guys are not going to hit top level pitching. As an example at the DIII CWS this year a pitcher from my son's school shut down the third ranked hitting team in the country with mostly 90-92 MPH FB's, they just could not catch up and the team had a 0.352 BA. 

Sounds like Trinity to me.