How fast is a ball thrown if it travels 300 feet?

90 mph I believe

I stated that a ball that flys 300 feet through the air MUST be released at about 90mph. Now if you could run 10 mph when you released, you'd only need a throw of 80 mph.

I've seen charts on the web but I cant find one now.

For more info buy ($12.99) Yale physics professor, Robert Adair's hot selling The Physics of Baseball

" examines aspects of the game: the flight of baseballs, the swing of the bat, pitching, batting, bats, running, fielding, and throwing. The book contains many charts, graphs, diagrams, and formulae."

Estimating the velocity of a throw

Speed Distance
40 mph 95 ft
50 mph 120 ft
60 mph 170 ft
70 mph 210 ft
80 mph 260 ft
90 mph 305 ft
100 mph 360 ft

Source for the above:
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:3KdIqHp1X7kJ:raincreekbooks.home.mindspring.com/questions.htm+%22physics+of+baseball%22+throwing+distance+speed&hl=en

Interesting thread. Just a note from Physics, the angle the ball is released will determine the maximum horizontal distance possible along with the release velocity. Thus, one player may actually throw or hit a ball farther with less velocity if they realease/hit at the correct angle. It is a proven fact that the maximum horizontal distance a projectile can travel is when projected horizontally at a 45 degree angle.

LateBloomer,

Sounds like you throw it about 90 mph according to Adair. You probably have good rotation on the ball that helps with the carry.

Maybe that's why you're called LateBloomer.

Cleveland Dad,

I have been told that the optimum trajectory is a little bit less than 45 dgrees and more like 32 to 36.

Here is a link to site created by an FSU professor that you can plug in your own numbers for a batted ball.

It says it is based on Adair's numbers.

Here's what they say about trajectory.

The initial conditions set when the program is started were chosen to facilitate a particular experiment concerning the NCAA changes in bat rules described at the start of a separate page. The optimal launch angle is about 35 or 36 degrees, not 44 degrees.

http://faculty.tcc.fl.edu/scma/carrj/Java/baseball4.html

Cleveland Dad,
The 45 degrees is for a ballistic trajectory with no friction. When you add spin and drag into the equation then 35 degrees is somewhere around the optimum.

Latebloomer,
The distance doesn't include roll.

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fact that the maximum horizontal distance a projectile can travel is when projected horizontally at a 45 degree angle.

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Yeah, I should have said the ball would have to be thrown at about 45 degrees. Problem is most pitchers train at about a 10 degree angle all their lives and can't throw fast at high angle.
Would probably be very hard on the arm. That's why 30-40 degrees probably produces the longest throw.

A cannonball has most range at 45 degrees.

Thanks for the information. Just looked up in my physics book to confirm the 45 degree angle. The book even used a thrown baseball as an example. This may in fact be under perfect conditions without considerations of drag and spin, however which I am no expert on.

Assuming the above chart is accurate, then Roberto Clemente must have been able to throw the ball about 100 mph. This is one player who isn't talked about much who is one of the greatest players of all time. I routinely saw him as a kid throw runners out at home, on the fly, while throwing from the fence in the power alley.

Clevelanddad,
No air resistance and consequentialy no drag, 45 degrees would be optimal.
Another caveat that seldom understood or discused is the effect of reduced angle of release and the amount of force that can be applied.
A lower angle of release will allow the thrower to apply a longer "pull" on the ball and have as a result a greater release velocity.
Somebody, somewhere, did a study that found that a negativerelease angle would give the highest velocity out of hand. Of course, the ball wont go very far, but that's one reason a pitchers' mound helps a pitcher throw harder.He's throwing down hill.
What an ego boost though, when I was 17 I threw SOFTBALLS from one goal line and made field goals at the other end. If I only knew what kind of tool I had then.
Rollerman

Just another reason to keep the pitch low. My experience with radar is that the really high throws are usually a mph or two slower.

Rollerman,

Sounds like you have sat in a Physics class or two. Thanks again for the information. In my Physics class when we worked out the 45 degree angle calculation on the baseball, no mention was made of these other factors - as always that is the difference between the real world and the idealized world of the classroom. This has been enlightening for me.

Any thoughts on the ideal angle to hit a baseball? Based on yours and some of the other comments, I am assuming that this is why players attempt to get back spin on the ball.

Thanks!

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Any thoughts on the ideal angle to hit a baseball? Based on yours and some of the other comments, I am assuming that this is why players attempt to get back spin on the ball.

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Have you checked this link out. It's all about hitting distance. You can even plug in Rosenblatt stadium or at FSU and figure out what you need to do to hit one out there.

Again, here it is.

http://faculty.tcc.fl.edu/scma/carrj/Java/baseball4.html

Physucks is what I always say!!!!!!!!!!!

Next question: how far is first base from third base, or 2nd from home?

Gotta be careful with physics in baseball ... next thing you know we'll have umpires blaming Heisenberg's uncertainty principle for having a bad day with the balls & strikes.

If I remember right, the 45 degree angle is optimum for distance for any given projectile propelled by an outside independent source (i.e. shot out of a cannon) but when using our body as the propellant source we get optimal force between 30-40 degrees. This has to do alot with our lower body momentum and arm angle physics. Javelin throwers are even taught to throw at a 35-40 degree angle and that should tell you something there. That is all they do is try to throw for as much distance as possible.

It has been awhile since I was originally told this information and theories have probably changed alot since then but it still makes alot of since to me.

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Javelin throwers are even taught to throw at a 35-40 degree angle and that should tell you something there.

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I researched javelin throwing last year. I don't recall what I learned about the ideal angle. But I noted that many Olympians practice with javelins that are UNDER-weight to develop quickness. A javelin weighs about a pound and can be thrown over 300 feet. By the way, Americans aren't very good at javelin throwing.
(and great javelin throwers aren't fast with baseballs)

I threw the javelin in college and the information is correct.

You combine the rating of the javelin your throwing with your arm speed (and it helped if you're tall), and that determines the optimum angle you can throw it.

To be effective at 45 degrees, you had to be able to generate a lot of arm speed.

But the numbers in this thread ring true.

BTW, my junior year in college, my best throw of the season came in the Missouri Valley Conference championships. It was close to the NCAA qualifying standard (then 200 feet). I got beat by 103 feet that day by someone who later set an American record. It was the only time my father ever saw me throw the javelin.

I also got beat by almost 3 feet in the long jump and 11 feet in the triple jump (and I was fifth).

I've never recovered from the trauma.

You can't find much info on javelin throwing becuase it's not a HS event in most states. Very dangerous sport, but not for the thrower!. I remember about 20 years ago one landed on a track a few feet ahead of a sprinter who fatally impaled himself on it.

Okay,Okay
You guys are starting to wander into my teritory here.
Men's javelin; 800grams or 28oz (1lb.12oz) 8'4" long.
Javelin ratings are based on the distance that the spear will turn over and land point first.
Used to be an issue 20+ years ago. Now the spear will turn over at a very short distance (like an arrow)
Americans have had trouble learning the javelin for 2 reasons. One; they don't understand the nature of momentum transfer created by the runnup. Two; the 6 years or so that Americans usually play with the javelin (thru college) is insufficient for developing the technique required to really get good at it. Europeans who master the event are usually at it 10 to 15 years befor they are accomplished.
The newer javelins are rated more for the expertise of the thrower. Stiffer javs are for more accomplished athletes who are able to throw "thru the point", a more forgiving soft javelin will flex more and take some of the shock away from the elbow.
Javelin throwers and indeed all olympic throwing event people have trained on overload/underload principles. It is a well established training philosophy in track and field. It's is responsible for the "weighted balls" of current controversy here.(here we go again)
Americans didn't throw the spear over 300' until Mark Murro did in '70.
That was the American record until Bob Roggey threw over 300' several times in '82, topping out at 315'. About 2ft shy of the WR.
I think the current WR holder was given a chance with the Braves back in '96.
Didn't throw that hard as a pitcher but slung the ball out of the park afterwards.
Says something about specificty of training. The current American Record holder has reportedly thrown a baseball 98mph.
Rollerman

Teacherman weigh in here and straighten these guys out. Im sure that you can tell them a thing or two about the javelin. Just messin with ya Teach.

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I think the current WR holder was given a chance with the Braves back in '96.
Didn't throw that hard as a pitcher but slung the ball out of the park afterwards.
Says something about specificty of training. The current American Record holder has reportedly thrown a baseball 98mph.

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The Atlanta gold medalist was supposedly clocked by the Braves in the mid-70 mph range. Never heard about him throwing a ball out of the park.

Was that 98mph while running? No big deal. A very brief sprint could reach 20 mph to add to the ball's speed.

There is a world record for throwing a baseball on the run, set in the late 1950s by a pro outfielder. Incredible distance, something like 400 feet.

There's some info on the web, but I haven't been able to find it lately.

Throwing a baseball 365 feet is throwing 100mph. That doesn't transfer to the mound as speed. Two different animals. Most people will throw 5-10 mph slower on the mound depending on mechanics. In long tossing you will use a crow hop and a lot of lower body momentum and strength.

I dont believe this statement is correct. Nodoby throw 300ft or over with a 45 angle without crow hop. How this measurement could be accurate over and over.

Just my humble opinion...

BiGHit says that throwing off the mound may be 5 to 10 mph slower than using the distance measuring method where the person is crow hopping. I am not saying this is wrong. However I would have figured that winding up and throwing off a mound would make up a little more of the crow hop advantage. In addition I would think that your release point would be sooner throwing at a 35 degree angle which would be disadvantageous compared to throwing off a mound.

If throwing from the mound is slower, here’s my question. I’m sure someone has an easy answer. When observing Perfect Game stats for a player, their infield throwing time or outfield throwing time is usually 2 to 8 mph slower than their times from the mound. This is true almost without exception for the players that have both times displayed.

Why is this if throwing off the mound is indeed slower?

I know the distances are longer but I thought the gun times the ball at its release regardless of how far it is thrown? If crow hopping or infielders throwing while running have such an advantage over throwing from a mound as explained above, shouldn’t the results be the opposite?

Or is it in the way showcases do the timing… or something else?

Thanks in advance

SBK, good thoughts

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Bighit said: Most people will throw 5-10 mph slower on the mound depending on mechanics. In long tossing you will use a crow hop and a lot of lower body momentum and strength.

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You didn't consider mechanics in your thinking.
At pg events, most guys who are time from the infield and the out field have different times. the outield being faster. Remember that infielders are not winding up, they are using a quick release and often not moving directly to the bag. It is an apples to oranges comparison. The long toss from the outfield is a much closer evaluation, even if it still different that the pitching motion from the mound.

My evidence comes from working with a very few pitchers. My son, long tossed at his last outing, 365 feet at an approximate 30-40 degree arc using a crowhop not a run-up. A run-up would allow an extra 5-10 feet, but he is not an outfielder so he doesn't use a run-up. He uses a crowhop instead of a windup in order to use more legs and put less stress on the decelaration part of the throw or the shoulder. From the windup he can only throw about320 feet, but this is not a good exercise and is dangerous for the shoulder to try to windup on flat ground and throw upwards. To messy on the mechanics as well. So we don't use that method. I don't know of anyone who does, though some use the stand still and throw method, which I determined was ineffective for our purposes.

It is my opinion that a crowhop adds more velocity than a windup. It is just my opinion based on my observations.

As I stated, my son can throw 365-370, but the highest he has been clocked on the mound is 96 and that was 2 times. He is most likely to be seen at 90-93. That is where I get my information from. It is strictly anecdotal and my conclusions. it is not scientific, but it is consistent.

BigHit,

Thanks, it makes sense. I guess it should since you are basing it on reality.

It really demonstrates how important mechanics can be. If a guy who throws 88 could find a way to generate the same results in his windup as a crow hop, he might throw 95.

I have never been to a showcase where they timed infielders, but I can see problems with it if not done without a standardized process. Do they do it in such a way that you can actually compare infielders arm speed based on results?

How do they time it? Do they actually time it while they are fielding a ground ball? Or do they allow them to just throw a ball from shortstop?

If they hit a ball, is it the same type of ball for everyone? Or do some people back hand and throw from the hole while the next person might charge the ball and throw on the run?

It seems that unless everyone just stands at short and throws it, that there is not a lot of validity in comparing these numbers between players compared to the numbers from the mound where everything is more standardized.

Thanks again in advance.

BigHit

There clearly is a little wiggle room when it comes to pitching and straight throwing speed. And the numbers you list are consistent with the table at the front of the thread.

Way back when (HS), I was told I threw right at 90 mph. My senior year, on a dare, I threw a softball something like 330 feet (with a javelinesque hop).

I only bring up the javelin stuff because I threw it for 10 years and becuse you learn a lot about release angle doing so.

And the winner of the javelin in the 1979 MVC meet was the late Roggy (Southern Illinois) at something like 298 feet.

OldVAman,
How far did you throw the jav.? Did you make it to any of the Nationals?
I first threw back in '79. Took a big ego hit when I couldn't get close to world class throwing. That expeience really sold me on the importance of good technique. Hard work and time payed off...eventually. Trying to sell the value of the lesson to my sons as they persue baseball and indeed, anything else. Hard work is truely a hard sell!!!
Bighits point about long toss is well taken. Just a little velocity added to the hip rotation, and staying closed with the shoulders will greatly increase release speed.
Rollerman

I got as far as 197 feet, which qualified you for the finals in a lot of meets back then, but nothing else. I always ran indoor track in HS, then played baseball in the spring. Did the decathlon in college, but javelin and the jumps were my regular meet events.

In the cyclical world of sports, track and field in the U.S. was very big back then. Baseball still was THE game, though scouts only wanted to see tall pitchers and home runs. Steroids were a relatively new thing (I didn't, because at 5-10 and 170 pounds they wouldn't have helped much), but they were plenty available if you wanted to try.

Right after I got out of college, baseball scouts suddenly wanted to see speed and more speed, both on the stopwatch and radar gun.

While there will be good people who will disagree, scouts in recent years have been looking more for players who project into home-run hitters. And tall pitchers.

Now that the major leagues are going to change because of the new steroid policy, might we see another cycle of speed?

Also posted on another thread.

check out this site for mph calculations various speed trivia

speed

I used the calculator to come up with my sons velocity from home to second base on his pop. He throws a consistent 2.1 and hits 2.0 2.05 on about 1 out of three throws. His release I have timed at anywhere from .68 to .72. Comes up with 86.5 mph on the throw. From the hill hes around 80-81.

Coach

Is your estimate for the throw to second a gun equivalent time or is it average mph.

Unless you have also been supplied with an additional physics formula to apply, the best you can come up with, with a stopwatch and the known distance is the average mph for the throw.

A gun on the other hand registers the fastest speed the ball traveled which is at the release point.

I would think that the average speed of a ball traveling from home to second would be considerably less than the gun reading of the same player on the mound if their mechanics were at least average.

For example, my guess is that a pitcher who is gunned at 90 mph would probably end up with an average speed to home of around 85 mph if it were possible to get a statistically confident stopwatch time on it. A catcher’s throw to second is further so the ball would lose speed even faster.

Coach. I’m no physics expert so I’d defer to a couple others around here, perhaps CaDad, but my reasoning seems solid.

Have a great weekend

Ifeel like I'm back in college physics - and they say you don't have to be a rocket scientist to know baseball!!

If our physics labs back in school were just about baseball stuff, I'll bet a few of us around here would have paid better attention.

I have no idea. I have never put a gun on him from home to second. I have from the hill and as I stated he is 80-81 cruise. I simply used the calculator from the site listed above. I do know that he throws alot harder coming out from behind the plate to second than he does from the mound. He is 15 a freshman this year. He is 2.1 all day and like I said 2.05 and 2.0 about every third throw or so. Very accurate as well. I often have wondered how fast he was throwing to second. I guess I need to put the gun on him and really see. But the pop time is all I really care about.