How Important is the Pitcher as a Hitter?

It depends on the player. On his Varsity squad my son was the number 2 pitcher and hit in the 4 hole last year and led the team in batting. This year he will be the number 1 and again hit in the 4 spot. He will clearly play in college somewhere but it is not clear if he will pitch or hit. Most college coaches have said he will have to choose one or the other....or more likely it will probably choose him.

On the other hand there are pitchers who only pitch on his team, and you see this quite a bit at the highest levels of HS baseball. So again it depends on the player.

Coach Waltrip my son was a good hitter growing up but not a great hitter but when he got to high schoo an pitching became more the love his hitting skills were not important to him. I believe most pitchers know when they get to high school which position is going to be their ticket to college. So my son decided to make a push more on pitching,so of course the hitting skills started to go.He can still handle the bat as well as some of the avg hitters on the team but the work ethic isnt there as it is in the pitching area, so this became is decision and the coach still gives him batting practice to keep is eye so he will be able to be some what competive at the plate for the team. So it reallycomes down to the young man knowing where he will be most valuable to the team, and i believe most of them make the right choice. Good Luck coach i hope this will help alittle along with the other responses of the members here. Have a great season

My observations through high school and travel are the kids who pitch only were not great hitters at lower levels. My son is a junior this year. His freshman year none of the pitchers hit. None should have. Last year the centerfielder was one of the starting pitchers. He hit third even when he pitched. He was a first team all-conference outfielder. This year my son will pitch and play short, third or center. The coach isn't sure he wants a pitcher playing short and/or rotating shortstops.

At the travel level, pre showcase most of the team's better pitchers were never great hitters and stopped hitting in showcase ball. My son is still doing both since his pitching coach thinks he has huge upside as a pitcher. He's raw now. The intention was to showcase him as a position player (mostly center/some infield) until he was noticed on the mound when his team ran out of pitchers at a showcase.

It's a lot of work. He's still training as an infielder, outfielder and pitcher. In offseason work he's hitting twice a week, pitching twice a week and doing lifting and agility three times a week.

One of the best hitters I've ever played against in Legion ball was also a very good pitcher. I thought he was a better hitter. As a freshman in college I didn't understand the coach taking the bat out of his hands. I guess Jon Winkin knew what he was doing. The kid pitched six seasons in the majors.

Coach,

Your question is a really interesting one to dig into and I know the answers will probably be all over the board.

You only have to look at "Player Development" at the Pro-level, to see that you are correct. With very "few exceptions" they are not allowing players to work on developing as both Hitters and Pitchers. If the player hasn't decided, typically the Coaches and Organization will determine what path they believe you will potentially be the most valuable at. It's a real dilemna for an amatuer Coach who wants to balance success on the field with player development.

Answers will probably differ regionally depending upon how strong a Baseball talent base you are drawing upon for players. I've Coached Travel teams from 12 - 16U and saw the Trend start at 12! Certainly, as you stated, by 15-16yrs. of age that road is being determined in competitive baseball regions, certainly in our very, very competitve Metro-Area.

I think two things occur regarding hitting. Travel team and H.S. Coaches are going to put the best hitters in the line-up and the best pitching arms on the mound. There is plenty of talent here to do so without needing a pitcher to hit or play a position. I've seen what you have seen, after puberty, the ability to both hit and pitch, with the very best at either, begins to wane.

There are many Coaches and Dad's of Pitchers who will say their player was absolutely the best at both. However, I haven't seen that in my experiences (with a very few exceptions). Someone on another thread said "the sport will choose you." Well in this instance; i think "the skill will choose you."
I don't think there is a right or a wrong in this as it often takes care of itself. If they are talented enough to do both, then they will continue to get the opportunity (the business "Peter Principle" as it applies to basball).

UNC Chapel Hill did a study and they found that only about 3% OF NCAA BB players were 2 way players. That was not to say that there weren't lots of talented 2 way guys but rather that coaches seemed to prefer that you played your strongest position. Too many ways to get injured was part of the reason.
My son's team has a guy who was pitching 97-98 mph and he was also the top HR hitter. He plays OF and you just don't want to test his arm.

How important is the pitcher as a hitter? Eventually it's not important at all in my opinion. As a player moves up the different levels the ability to do both diminishes with each step until it becomes a non-factor. I think it's much more important to excel at the plate OR on the mound to realize a future beyond HS.
Fungo

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:
How important is the pitcher as a hitter? Eventually it's not important at all in my opinion. As a player moves up the different levels the ability to do both diminishes with each step until it becomes a non-factor. I think it's much more important to excel at the plate OR on the mound to realize a future beyond HS.

in a nutshell.

Enjoy the complete game as long as you can but understand that as a player progresses so do the skills of the other progressing players and sooner or later you are looked upon as a specialist by those grading you. IMHO, the quicker a player can accept that the "day of the stick" is gone, the faster he can achieve the "mental groove" of a full time pitcher. Understanding and accepting "who you are", and not "who you were" is the key.

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:
How important is the pitcher as a hitter? Eventually it's not important at all in my opinion. As a player moves up the different levels the ability to do both diminishes with each step until it becomes a non-factor. I think it's much more important to excel at the plate OR on the mound to realize a future beyond HS.

in a nutshell.

Enjoy the complete game as long as you can but understand that as a player progresses so do the skills of the other progressing players and sooner or later you are looked upon as a specialist by those grading you. IMHO, the quicker a player can accept that the "day of the stick" is gone, the faster he can achieve the "mental groove" of a full time pitcher. Understanding and accepting "who you are", and not "who you were" is the key.

Fungo hit the nail on the head and rz's comments were spot on.

My son gave up pitching after his sophomore year because he was not really into it and it also had an effect on his hitting.

I kept record one year and found that when he pitched he still hit well but it was 100 points beneath what he did when not pitching

Additionally pitchers because of the time needed to concentrate on their pitching don't spend as much time in BP as the hitters only do.

Alot of my pitchers over the years were very good hs hitters. The best that went on to college and pro ball ended up as pitchers because thats where the coaches felt their most upside was at. When kids start putting all of their focus on just pitching of course the hitting is going to take a slide. While they are in hs if they can produce with the bat and help you win they continue to do it. When they reach college there are guys there to hit and guys there to pitch. Of course there are those exceptions where a pitcher is also a hitter in college. They are rare but they do exist.

I can only speak from my experince. Son maintained a 360 batting average throughout HS. He was the second or third best pitcher as a freshman and sophmore, so he got allot of at bats and time in the outfield. His junior year he established himself as the first or second best pitcher and his at bats and outfield playing time started to dimish as the coaches tried to protect his arm more. His senior year he became their clear number one, so the coaches Dh'ed for him on the days he started on the mound and had him pinch hit in key situations when he didn't start. No time at all in the outfield even thou he was clearly good enough to be a starter, it bothered him but not me, I understood what they were doing. Now in college the coaches laugh at him at the mere suggestion of taking an at bat.

A friend of ours thats a LHP in the MLB was a tremendous homerun hitter in HS and college. His first month in the minor leagues he was fined $500 for breaking the team rule of not even being allowed to hold a baseball bat.

Parents in college become frustrated when their son (a pitcher) isn't allowed to bat. Especially those parents of pitchers that take a 1-0 loss when the opposing pitcher dominated his teammates.

One of the best hs hitters I have ever seen is Madison Bumgardner the SF Giants young LHP. This kid can flat out mash. There is no doubt in my mind that he could hit big time if given the opportunity. But I doubt that ever happens outside of his ab's he gets when pitching.

My son told me he was going to hit this year.

He said the coach game him a fungo and asked if he could hit grounders.

ha! The transition to pitcher only has been harder on me than either his dad or my son. He was always a strong hitter with production at bats. But our team has very strong hitters and not enough positions, so all pitchers are dh'ed. Considering his workout/long toss/bpen routine, I don't think he would have time to get meaningful swings in anyway. It's all good.

quote:

My questions to the learned members of the HSBBW are this:

1. As parents and coaches, do you observe hitting skills to wane for most pitchers as they go into varsity and college?
2. What has been the experience been for your pitcher son as he rose through up in competition?
3. How important is it that a pitcher (other than a bonus) can hit in varsity and college?

"


1. At high school level. I still see a lot of pitchers that also are very good hitters.

2. On high school team my son is a starting pitcher but also plays first when he does not pitch. Last year as a soph he hit in the 3-5 holes. On his Showcase travel team, he pitched and played outfield. On a team with several juniors he hit in the 7th hole. There were many pitchers on the travel team that were pitchers only. There does seem to be more pitchers only on teams were the comp is higher Not sure if they could hit at earlier ages, I did not see them play at those ages so not sure if there skills waned.

3. As far a college, I have heard many college coaches tell my son during the recruiting process that two way players (because of the changes in the scholarship rules) are desired. So I imagine if you are a pitcher that can hit they will find a way to get you in the lineup. But it does seem that the time spent honing your skills as a college pitcher might make it tough to also be a top college hitter, but it is done.

Thanks for the info guys...I was just having some second thoughts about what I have been coaching and since the game does evolve I didn’t want to be out of the loop. As a coach I knew what I had been seeing, but I wasn’t sure if I going about it in the correct manner.

Prime9, I believe you are correct when you stated that 'The skill will choose you.'

When I look back over the years I can see how true this statement really is with many kids...For example, when he was very young I tried to persuade my number 3 son to become a middle infielder, but all he wanted to do was pitch. I kept putting him off while giving others the opportunity to pitch until one day I put him on the mound and he did ok. He continued to badger me until I put him on the mound again and he did better...Over a period of a year I could see he was going to be a better pitcher than he was a middle infielder and there was nothing I could do about it...the skill was choosing him...

Subsequently, as the years passed he has developed into a pitcher and not a hitter. On the scout and school teams he has been primarily DH’d for. Since he has not been a big hitter his chances to hit are being reduced naturally through the process...no problem...understandable.

In summary, my number 3 has naturally developed into a pitcher and I had little to do with it...his skills are more conducive to a pitcher that they ever were to a middle infielder...I learned a valuable lesson, as simple as it may appear, and will strive to let the players develop into what they were meant to be rather than what I want them to be as I know I sometime try to do...other than where I may need a kid based upon the players on the team (I can’t have everybody playing middle infielder or pitcher during a game). However, I do see value in letting a player develop as the skill chooses them and will be careful in trying to recognize it as well as foster it.

There is a difference in the "big college" and the "small college" approach here. IF (a big word here) your son wants to be a two way player in college I suggest he focus on a college(s) that wants him PRIMARILY as a hitter/position player and not as a pitcher. Once he establishes his prowess as a hitter then he can move to the mound. If he approaches it as a pitcher first, the opportunity to pick up a bat more than likely will never happen.

Dad43 says: "So I imagine if you are a pitcher that can hit they will find a way to get you in the lineup." I know that wasn't the case in the past ----.
Fungo

dad43:

Recruiters can say a lot of things. And, it is true, there are two-way players. Usually it does not work out.

At ASU, Ike Davis, a stellar high school pitcher, started at first base and in the weekend rotation at the beginning of his freshman year. His pitching suffered to the point where he clearly could not continue as a starting pitcher -- nor did he want it to continue.

His junior year, he was leading the Pac 10 in virtually every hitting category entering May. In one of his relief pitching experiences, he strained a muscle and missed two weeks. No more pitching. Before this year is over, he might be the starting first baseman for the Mets.

Similarly, Mike Leake was one of the best hitters at ASU his entire time there; he also was one of the four or five best pitchers in all of college baseball. Everytime he got a chance, he consistently hit well. Nonetheless, his value was on the mound and probably never got more than 50 at bats -- if that -- in a season, even though he would occasionally play first base. If given the chance, he might have been the best shortstop on the team.

Jake Barrett, a freshman pitcher at ASU this year, was a third-round draft pick of the Toronto Blue Jays. He hit 19 home runs in a pretty big high school ball park last year. He told me the other day that so far at ASU he has not worked out at all as a hitter. It's just not important to them with all the other great hitters they have. His pitching, however, could be invaluable.

As Fungo said, for the most part, if a player wants to pitch and hit, smaller programs are by far the better bet.