How many innings does a starter in HS need for a win

Bizazz,
I use 4 for the 7 inning HS game. I would have to see how the game transpired in your second question, but I think your on the right track.

"If you make every game a life and death proposition, you're going to have problems. For one thing, you'll be dead a lot."

That rule never made much sense to me. You can take a loss or get a win with 1 pitch after 4 1/2 innings but to get a win as a starter you have to go 4 1/2.

Why is that?

Bizazz..I believe a starter can lose an "official " game if he throws 1 pitch..ie 1st pitch HR, then he is taken out and the score remains 1-0 after 7...he gets the loss. whenever the score is tied..ie 1-1 and he is removed or has been removed, the starter gets a no decision. The starter must go a min of 4 1/2 inn to get a win in a 7 inn game and his team must win without the opposing team tying the score...once again, if a tie happens, it reverts to a no decision for the starter.


Once the score is tied, normally the pitcher of record is designated by the coach based on his decision as to the importance of the situation.


"If you can imagine it you can create it. If you can dream it, you can become it". William Arthur Ward

"Baseball is Life"

I get what you're saying, but consider this.

Pitcher 1 starts the game and leaves after 2 innings, leading 1-0.
Pitcher 2 pitches 2 innings, no runs.
Pitcher 3 pitches 2 innings, no runs.
Pitcher 4 pitches the 7th, no runs.

The team wins 1-0. Who gets the win?

Since an MLB starter has to go 5 in a 9-inning game to get the win, I would guess a HS starter has to go 4 in a 7-inning game. In reality, I would guess that many HS scorekeepers usually give it to whoever was the pitcher when his team took the lead. Probably not correct though.

________________
"The only people I ever felt intimdated by in my whole life were Bob Gibson and my daddy," Dusty Baker.

Hi, according to the NFHS rule book the winning pitcher is determined if: The starting pitcher has pitched the first 4 innings and his team is ahead when he is replaced and the team holds the lead for the remainder of the game.
To answer Bizazz, the rule reads, if the starting pitcher leaves before the completion of innings and his team is ahead, the official scorer will name the winning pitcher to be the relief pitcher who was most effective.
These are rule from rule 9 section 6 article 6.

Hope this gives some clarification. i just happen to be looking through the book the other day and remembered reading this exact section on score keeping.

Ok,
So in Bizazz's scenario...........who was the most effective reliever?

_______________________
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." Rogers Hornsby, Hall of Famer

In that scenario, it would be either pitcher 2 or 3 depending on the game details: hits, # on base, walks, etc. during their innings pitched. Pitcher 1 would rarely be given this win.

Thanks for the feedback.

As usual, this site is a wealth of information.

If you needed any proof that stats in HS baseball are not the ultimate indicator of performance, this scenario should point that out. I cant tell you how many times I've umpired games where the newspaper article the following day talks about the hitter who went 4-4, but I remember only 1 hit and 3 errors, or the pitcher who got the win or the save when by the rule book they were entitled to niether.
High school stats to some degree are valuable, but due to the nature of the biased scoring cant be held up.

This points out the case where a pitcher can work himself into the #1 slot, get the tough starts, and have lackluster stats. The same thing happened to last year's #1. He took the the starts against the 3 strongest teams in the district the first time we played. He took losses in all three. The #2 pitcher collect wins in his 1st 3 starts before facing the 3 strongest teams the second time around. He took losses in all 3. At the high school level you're also dependent that you can get some help from your offense and an error-free game from your defense.

Bizazz, Your game scenario was our game yesterday.

Pitcher 1 starts the game and leaves after 2 innings, gives up one hit, leading 2-0.
Pitcher 2 pitches 2 innings, no runs, gives up one hit, leading 3-0. (no runner to 2nd)
Pitcher 3 pitches 2 innings, no runs, no hits (walk-hit batsman-error, bases loaded).
Pitcher 4 pitches the 7th, no runs, no hits (walk-walk-hitbatsman, bases loaded).

The team wins 3-0. Who gets the win? In the local newspaper, the 1st pitcher was awarded the win.

RHP05Parent, The 1st pitcher would not normally have been pulled, if not preseason. #1 gets WIN.

I'm not sure if there's a Fed rule that covers this, but under OBR rules there is an exception for games where there is a plan to only pitch the starter a certain number of innings. It's rule 10.19 (g):

quote:

---

In some non championship games (such as the Major League All Star Game) it is provided in advance that each pitcher shall work a stated number of innings, usually two or three. In such games, it is customary to credit the victory to the pitcher of record, whether starter or reliever, when the winning team takes a lead which it maintains to the end of the game, unless such pitcher is knocked out after the winning team has a commanding lead, and the scorer believes a subsequent pitcher is entitled to credit for the victory.

---

I would use that principle to give the W to the starter in a HS game whenever there is a pregame plan to use him less than 4 innings (as is sometimes done to "save" him for a game later in the week.)

D'oh!

WINNING AND LOSING PITCHER
10.19
(a) Credit the starting pitcher with a game won only if he has pitched at least five complete innings and his team not only is in the lead when he is replaced but remains in the lead the remainder of the game. (b) The "must pitch five complete innings" rule in respect to the starting pitcher shall be in effect for all games of six or more innings. In a five inning game, credit the starting pitcher with a game won if he has pitched at least four complete innings and his team not only is in the lead when he is replaced but remains in the lead the remainder of the game. (c) When the starting pitcher cannot be credited with the victory because of the provisions of 10.19 (a) or (b) and more than one relief pitcher is used, the victory shall be awarded on the following basis: (1) When, during the tenure of the starting pitcher, the winning team assumes the lead and maintains it to the finish of the game, credit the victory to the relief pitcher judged by the scorer to have been the most effective; (2) Whenever the score is tied the game becomes a new contest insofar as the winning and losing pitcher is concerned; (3) Once the opposing team assumes the lead all pitchers who have pitched up to that point are excluded from being credited with the victory except that if the pitcher against whose pitching the opposing team gained the lead continues to pitch until his team regains the lead, which it holds to the finish of the game, that pitcher shall be the winning pitcher;


Not real sure where you get the 4 1/2 innings makes a winning pitcher. He must finish five to be the winner if he is the starter. This only changes if the game is less than 6 innings!! High school being seven so therefore he must throw five.

If you want the whole rule listing go here.....

http://www.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/official_info/official_rules/official_scorer_10.jsp

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I know for a fact that in college this is not the case. Tennessee's Scott Drucker was the "designated" pitcher in a game earlier in the year. He pitched 3 innings. Tennessee was in the lead when he left the game after 3 innings pitched. He was awarded the win.

This was in a 9 inning game.

Could we infer from this that a HS pitcher could pitch less than 3 innings and get a win?

The rules you quoted were from MLB. They may be different at college and HS level.

Here it is - remember high school baseball does not! follow mlb baseball rules. National Federation Of State High School Associations - From 2004 rule book rule 9-6 art.6 winning pitcher determined as follows. if the staring pitcher has pitched the first four innings or more and his team is ahead when he is replace and the team holds the lead for remainder of the game, he shall be the winning pitcher. their you have it !!!

COACHDAD is correct. Any high school pitcher who leaves the game after starting is awarded a victory if when he leaves his team is ahead and never loses the lead, and he has pitched 4 innings or more. If the pitcher is for the home team, he can leave after 3 1/2 and get the win.