How many signs should a team/coach have on offense

IMO, too many signs.

I would eliminate:

safety squeeze--with a runner at third, when you flash "bunt", safety squeeze is implied

run and hit--with a runner at first, when you flash "steal" and don't flash "take", run and hit is implied

steal/bunt--flash two separate signs: "steal" and "bunt"

fake bunt/steal--flash two separate signs: "fake bunt" and "steal"

slash--too rare to include in your inventory of signs

green light to bunt for a base hit--If you mean "drag bunt" if the 3B is playing back, then maybe. But if you mean "permission granted to bunt,"-- no one will ever take you up on it.

Just my 2 cents.

IMO, way too many. I have to ask why anybody has more than 3-4. You can't win the game from the box, let them play. Signs should be the exception, not the rule. Ask Bowa.

Teach them situational baseball during practice so they KNOW what to do when the time comes.

CoachTR welcome to the site and good question. I'll be honest - I would struggle with trying to remember all of those signs as a coach. Then there is trying to find enough body parts to put all of these signs on LOL.

I agree with NDD in the teaching them most of this in practice and turn them loose.

I have seen some with so many signs they use arm bands like football.

All,
I agree TR has too many listed and see where some can be eliminated/combined but most have value. Many situations have multiple options and require a sign to initiate - the only way both players involved would be on the same page. What do you guys do?

Freddy,
safety squeeze - do you never suicide?
also, you say...
"run and hit--with a runner at first, when you flash "steal" and don't flash "take", run and hit is implied"
do you never swing thru to protect the runner?

NDD - the arm bands seem to be more and more common now. I've seen 6 JC's play this year so far and 5 had most of the players wearing the qb arm bands.

Sure teach your kids to play the game, but the more info you can give them the better.

Ex. On a bunt our catcher calls out which bag our fielder is to throw, but we teach our fielders that ultimately that decision is up to you.

In that same frame of mind, one of the calls on our wrist band is 'steal if you can'. I am letting our player know that I think this is a good running situation. We also have the standard steal, delayed steal, bunt, bunt/run, hit/run, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by cabbagedad:
All,
I agree TR has too many listed and see where some can be eliminated/combined but most have value. Many situations have multiple options and require a sign to initiate - the only way both players involved would be on the same page. What do you guys do?

Freddy,
safety squeeze - do you never suicide?
also, you say...
"run and hit--with a runner at first, when you flash "steal" and don't flash "take", run and hit is implied"
do you never swing thru to protect the runner?

NDD - the arm bands seem to be more and more common now. I've seen 6 JC's play this year so far and 5 had most of the players wearing the qb arm bands.

Ah so, that explains a lot. Thanks for the information.

quote:

Originally posted by d8:
Sure teach your kids to play the game, but the more info you can give them the better.

Ex. On a bunt our catcher calls out which bag our fielder is to throw, but we teach our fielders that ultimately that decision is up to you.

In that same frame of mind, one of the calls on our wrist band is 'steal if you can'. I am letting our player know that I think this is a good running situation. We also have the standard steal, delayed steal, bunt, bunt/run, hit/run, etc.

To a point. Too much information shuts down the hard drive. The thieves should learn what a good situation is. Teams should know what type of team they are and how their particular team can win. Strategy can be discussed in the dugout between innings.

I have seen teams practice every play on their wrists over and over again - how many times do they come up in a season? And the players know.

Somebody posted a while back about hit and run vs. run and hit. Do you need a sign for both? Pick a strategy and go.

We give them so much information we can shut them down. You can't hit and think at the same time.

I listened to Larry Bowa talk about signs a long time ago. The higher the level, the less complicated. Most of them consist of "Do what you do."

And how many players on a team are any of us willing to suicide squeeze? R3 has to be the right guy. Right guy in the box. Right situation. The enemy has to be set up right.

How many times do all those factors align? Not enough for me to have a sign. That's what "Time Blue!" was invented for.

I know I'm archaic and all, but I believe it's still a game and I think it's hard enough to play the game without having to look down at your wrist every pitch.

I've seen coaches gives signs down 3 with R2 and 2 outs in the bottom of the last and a good hitter up. Really Coach? What play you got for that one?

IMO - Teach them the game and let 'em play it.

Collective "you", not you personally.

NDD I couldn't agree more. If you spend practice time covering all these things then when do you work on defense? I got 5 maybe 6 signs and maybe use 3 of them. I'm not sure why I have the other 2 or 3.

Nothing cracks me up more than to see that coach who leads off the game's first hitter with 12 signs and the kid takes the pitch.

Probably took it because he needed more time to figure out the sign...

You can arrange your signs so that you only need 5 or 6 but can run 30 different things off of them.....run means run, hit means hit, bunt means bunt.....just covered steal/h-r/r-h/squeeze/sac/etc/etc/etc

Easy to learn, easy to give.

Do NOT agree that HS kids are smart enough to know when to steal/not steal etc. That's why we have coaches!

I wish I got players that knew how/when to hit/run, steal, etc. The players I get as freshman do not know that the infield fly rule existed or that you can run on a missed third strike much less what to do when it happens.

Therefore in our offensive practice we do more than stand at the plate and swing. Just like on defense we do more than field ground balls and throw 'em to first.

We practice delayed steals, safety squeezes, and we even have a second and third offense that generates runs. On defense we work back hands, slow rollers, bunt coverages, etc. If I let my players go play based on what they know coming in as freshman, we would be in a world of hurt.

I understand where you guys are coming from that think too many signs are not needed. But they are needed if for no other reason than to have everyone on the same page.

Ex. We steal home on avg. 10-12 times a year. That is something that everyone needs to be on the same page.

PS....we have gone to using wrist bands the last couple of years and I promise we get our signs in faster than 99% of the teams that use traditional signals.

quote:

Originally posted by d8: and we even have a second and third offense that generates runs.

I want to hear more about this, please, sir.

I would like to know about the second and third offense as well.

Here is the way I look at it. When I get a freshman in my program I don't care what they know or what they don't know. In fact I would rather they NOT know much because then I can teach what I want without having to overcome something that was taught wrong. I assume anybody new in my program has no clue about baseball that way my staff can start coaching.

Set up drills and before you do them explain what the drill is, why you're doing it and then do it. Quiz them when they're standing around waiting to step in to hit during BP. Do the same drills the next day or two days later - don't wait two weeks before you do it again. Set up situations where they have to think before the ball is put in play. Have a rule of the day and go over it. Have coaches walk around during BP and work with kids on things individually that you see struggling with certain things. Don't worry about that ball that skips by them from a hitter that ends up at the fence. Somebody else can get it or they can get it later - you got more than one ball. Just teach the game.

I'm not saying you guys don't do this but what I've found out is if I expect kids to come in knowing things or a certain level of baseball then I'm going to be pretty frustrated. Just assume they know nothing, teach everything and adjust from there.

Don't shortchange your kids in what they can learn. They're not supposed to know stuff when they're young - they're kids. It's our job to teach them everything. Look at it this way - if they can learn how to do all that fancy math stuff that's being pushed down their throats then they can learn when to steal and other things. They have to learn it sometime.

Hold kids accountable for knowing things you want them to know. Let them know if they don't remember this or that then you are going make their life a living HE double hockeysticks they will respond.

If we call for our 2nd and 3rd offense, both R2 and R3 are running on ground balls no matter where they are hit. If R3 is a sure out (hard hit to the corners or back to the pitcher) he gets in a rundown and allows the batter to go from home to second.

Often when R3 gets in a rundown and the R2 has moved up to third the defense will run R3 back to the bag hoping to tag the trail runner with two men standing on third base, but we teach our runners that as soon as R3 makes it back to third he is to take back off towards second....same thing at second, if/when R2 gets back to second the batter (who is now at 2nd) takes back off for first. Lots of times it looks like a cluster for the defense and we wind up score R3 while they are chasing R2 or R1.

Anyway, you can see how this is a much more difficult play for the defense than check the runner and throw to first.If R3 gets outs, we still have runners at second and third.

coach2709,
I agree with everything you said but one - after the talking is done and the ball is hit, we play it. If more talking needs to be done we'll do it after. I've learned giving up on a ball gets to be a habit quick and I've learned patience.

Besides, if it rolled to the fence, they probably aren't thinking about what we're saying anyway, they're thinking about the ball.
And who knows, something positive may happen we can build on.

Excellent post.

quote:

Originally posted by NDD:
coach2709,
I agree with everything you said but one - after the talking is done and the ball is hit, we play it. If more talking needs to be done we'll do it after. I've learned giving up on a ball gets to be a habit quick and I've learned patience.

Besides, if it rolled to the fence, they probably aren't thinking about what we're saying anyway, they're thinking about the ball.
And who knows, something positive may happen we can build on.

Excellent post.

Thanks NDD but I believe I didn't explain something clear enough. I agree with what you said about play the ball when it's hit to play it. What I meant is let's say during BP I know an OF has trouble with the drop step. I'm going to take him deep in the OF to avoid getting hit and work on it. If a ball is near then someone else can get it or it can wait until I get finished working with him. Then I can put him back in shagging BP to work on the drop step we just worked on. I do this to get more individual work rather than just have this kid stand in the OF and take the wrong drop step on balls hit to him.

I'm aiming it more at the rec league practice where the coach has a bucket of balls beside him but a ball gets thrown away. Everything comes to a stop until that ball is brought back. I can't stand that. Let it go and get back to work.

Does that make more sense?

I'm with you.