How to predict what level you can play on

What is your time in the 60? What is your throwing velocity? What you might want to do is attend college baseball games at the D1 to D3 level in your area. Then ask yourself where you might fit in. Kids I tell to do this are sometimes shocked at the quality of play at the D3 level and how overwhelming D1 ball even at the mid major level might be. The letters you're getting right now are to get your parents to spend money on their camps.

Keep up that GPA and get that ACT score up a bit and you will be attending college at very little cost no matter what level you play at.Great job in the classroom!

quote:

Originally posted by DLOCK15:
Oh, and if it matters, I have a 4.0 GPA and a 28 on the ACT.

DLOCK15:

It matters, you are giving yourself a ton of options. For the baseball programs at academic schools you are a kid that they can get admitted. For the programs at other schools you may well be a kid they don't have to use baseball money on because you'll get academic money.

Are you playing for a good travel or scout program this summer? Also, I'd suggest you get a good evaluation from PG or some other reputable source that will give you an idea of where you stand and what you need to improve in order to play college baseball. Keep in mind that programs at every level are looking for outfielders that can either hit the ball out of the ballpark or steal a base when they need one.

Good luck with your school season and keep up the great work in the classroom.

Hope this isn't seen as "highjacking" a thread. But could someone elaborate more how to "get a good (meaning true)evaluation from a PG" or are there specifics on this somewhere on this site.
Got a frosh catcher and trying to sift through and read all I can from the site which is great by the way.

Saints9, you can ask your question in the Showcase forum and probably get lots of good answers. I have my opinion but I'll save it until question moves over there.

quote:

Originally posted by Saints9:
Hope this isn't seen as "highjacking" a thread. But could someone elaborate more how to "get a good (meaning true)evaluation from a PG" or are there specifics on this somewhere on this site.
Got a frosh catcher and trying to sift through and read all I can from the site which is great by the way.

This thread might help.

http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/f...6003481/m/6097080395

Showcases like PG will give you an idea where your son is now, and what his potential is if he continues to develop.

I think think the OP would be well served to attend a PG showcase for that reason alone.

RJM,

My 60 has varied a lot over the last 2 months with my slowest being a 7.6 (1 Month Ago) and my fastest being a 6.93 (2 Months Ago).

My velocity from the outfield is generally around 75-79 MPH.

DLOCK, the 60 time is sketchy and obviously depends on who is timing you. The disparity of 7.6 to 6.9 is huge.

quote:

Originally posted by DLOCK15:
RJM,

My 60 has varied a lot over the last 2 months with my slowest being a 7.6 (1 Month Ago) and my fastest being a 6.93 (2 Months Ago).

My velocity from the outfield is generally around 75-79 MPH.

Sixty times don't range by that much unless someone doesn't know how to handle a stopwatch or there are serious weather condition isues. Who's timing you? Have you been timed enough to have a consistant time?

Vector makes a good point about getting to a PG showcase to find out where you stand. And having a 60 timed with a laser will definitely be more accurate than a stopwatch.

I'll go ahead and address Saints9's question, to, because it sort of fits.

First and foremost (and until I am blue in the face) do NOT get hung up on the number that PG gives you. It is a great tool to see where you are, and get an objective evaluation of your skills and what you need to work on. Great experience to share the field with the best players in the country.

Some examples of the kinds of numbers that will help you on your way to a "good" rating at PG Underclassmen.

Catcher: 5-9 175
60: 6.95
Throw from OF: 91
Throw from C: 82
Pop: 1.93
PG rating: 9
Unweighted GPA: 3.5
This is one of my favorite players. He has that very tough catcher mentality, great teammate, guy you want to have your back. Good hitter. I'm thinking he'd be a 10 if he had a more "projectible frame." (i.e. 6-3 instead of 5-9)
He had a ton of JUCO offers and a little D1 interest. He'll be going to a top JUCO.

Middle infielder 5-10 160
60: 7.18
Throw across IF: 79
FB: 88
PG rating: 7.5
Unweighted GPA 3.8
This is my very favorite player. He did not get tons of offers, but is going to the very same school, and they will likely room together.

Middle infielder 6-1 160
60: 7.25
Throw across IF: 85
FB 83
PG Rating: 8.0

GPA ...let's just say "on the bubble" as to whether he'll walk in May. No offers at this time.

A "good" rating is in the eye of the beholder. But a PG showcase will definitely help you figure out what level to target.

I've read other threads where people with more experience than I have stated that there are late bloomers who are not obvious D1 players as their sophomore season starts.

I'm surprised that the topic of hitting hasn't come up on this thread. What I undrerstand is that most colleges expect outfielders to hit.

if you play showcase simply ask the head of your organization. If you dont ask a respected head of another organization or a pro scout (they are not that hard to find) for a workout and a written eval... there may be a small charge for this but you will have your answer. Good Luck!

Thanks for the responses to my post. I'll continue to keep checking out the message board and articles as we start high school baseball.

quote:

Middle infielder 5-10 160
60: 7.18
Throw across IF: 79
FB: 88
PG rating: 7.5
Unweighted GPA 3.8
This is my very favorite player. He did not get tons of offers, but is going to the very same school, and they will likely room together.

I have never seen a pitcher with an 88 mph fastball rated a "7.5". That speed alone usually gets an "8.5". Unless the postion play was really that bad to lower the score that much...

Position play was pretty doggone good, Elroy. But my post was a little misleading.

Late bloomer. He hit 88 at Jupiter, nearly a year after that rating. The 7.5 was based on an 82 mph FB. But when you look at his profile, it now says 88.

But that doesn't mean PG was wrong. It's about projectability. A 7 rating includes "top level juco." And that's exactly where he'll be.

quote:

Originally posted by 2Bmom:
But that doesn't mean PG was wrong. It's about projectability. A 7 ranking includes "top level juco." And that's exactly where he'll be.

So they nailed it with 2Bson. I wonder if anyone has done a study to see what percentage of the time they do "nail it".

I'm sure PG is always watching trying to make it as near perfect as can be.

I think they're right an awful lot. If you look at the definitions assigned to the numbers, it's a pretty broad range.

So many folks get hung up on the number, and they worry about their son getting a 7 and they get all pumped up when he gets a 9.

I will admit that at first I was a little disappointed. Not in my son's rating, but when I saw other players that I was familiar with rated higher.

But as time passed, I realized that how other players are ranked or rated, or who is Top Prospect or who is All American doesn't matter one bit. What matters is what the player does with the information. 2B didn't go from 82 to 88 by playing video games. And that increase in strength affected all aspects of his game. So that's why I always tell people to take it for what it is, and get back to work!

2Bmom

We can relate to that I know my son is anxiuos to do another PG when he is in top baseball shape and not during another sport. The window can be narrow when the athlete plays a couple sports. I just knew we needed to get an evaluation to see where he stacked up so a one day workout between football practices was the best we could do. He now has 2 years to geet better.

quote:

Originally posted by jdawg_24:
I wonder if anyone has done a study to see what percentage of the time they do "nail it".

There was another topic with this discussion, FWIW, they are probably (in my guesstimate in the upper 90+ percent for getting it right.

Plus, I have only seen a few that have managed to move up with their rating.

quote:

Originally posted by 2Bmom: And having a 60 timed with a laser will definitely be more accurate than a stopwatch.

You're right about a laser's accuracy but it probably will cost you .05 off other's stopwatched times per our High School track coach who has used these at meets. Just sayin'.....

I found the following info at NCSA.Sports.org:

Position Common Traits: Preferred Grades for all positions – 3.0 GPA, 24 ACT, 1000/1600 SAT

Division, Position, Height, Weight, 60, Velocity
1,OF,5 11,170,6.6,86-87
2,OF,5 10,165,6.8 or below,82-86
3,OF,5 8,160,7.0 or below,78+

Division, Position, Height, Weight,POP
1,C,5 10 – 6 0,180,Sub 1.95
2,C,5 10,180,2.0 or below
3,C,5 9 165,2.1 or below

Division, Position, Height, Weight,Power #s
1,Corner IF,6 2,200,8+ HR, 30+ RBI
2,Corner IF,6 0,180,4+ HR, 20+ RBI
3,Corner IF,5 10,170,2+ HR, 20+ RBI

From NCSA.Sports.org

quote:

Originally posted by RedSoxFan21:
I found the following info at NCSA.Sports.org:

Position Common Traits: Preferred Grades for all positions – 3.0 GPA, 24 ACT, 1000/1600 SAT

Division, Position, Height, Weight, 60, Velocity
1,OF,5 11,170,6.6,86-87
2,OF,5 10,165,6.8 or below,82-86
3,OF,5 8,160,7.0 or below,78+

Division, Position, Height, Weight,POP
1,C,5 10 – 6 0,180,Sub 1.95
2,C,5 10,180,2.0 or below
3,C,5 9 165,2.1 or below

Division, Position, Height, Weight,Power #s
1,Corner IF,6 2,200,8+ HR, 30+ RBI
2,Corner IF,6 0,180,4+ HR, 20+ RBI
3,Corner IF,5 10,170,2+ HR, 20+ RBI

From NCSA.Sports.org

RedSoxFan21 you have a PM.

DLOCK..Do yourself a favor and go watch some games and practices at the schools you are considering attending. It will probably become very clear to you what level of play you can excel at. That has been effective for many before you in determining their best athletic "fit". Good luck!

Heck, I should be playing 3B at Tulane.

quote:

Originally posted by Dad04:
DLOCK..Do yourself a favor and go watch some games and practices at the schools you are considering attending. It will probably become very clear to you what level of play you can excel at. That has been effective for many before you in determining their best athletic "fit". Good luck!

I've heard this advice from others, and it makes sense... except for the fact that the bulk of college starters are likely 21-22 years old, which is probably 4-5 years older than most HS juniors who might be watching. Wouldn't even D3 seem extremely challenging (i.e. much better than almost all HS players)???

quote:

Originally posted by Sandman:
except for the fact that the bulk of college starters are likely 21-22 years old, which is probably 4-5 years older than most HS juniors

He's still gonna have to beat out guys that are 4-5 years older to play when he's 18.

Sandman,
As I read through this thread, I think you have it headed in the right direction and both you and Dad04 are saying very similar things. For the elite 10% or so, the answer is pretty clear.
This thread probably is best viewed in terms of the remaining 90%: most of our sons.
For these, my sense is you cannot predict, reliably, at what level you can play. Some "predicted" to play at DI cannot. Some "predicted" to play at DIII are actually higher level DI's. Some predicted at DI's with reservations turn out to be terrific players, much better than projected.
I expect that most of us who have been through the process will agree that when we saw our son's in the Spring of their freshman year, they were so much better and more skilled players than the last game of their senior year in HS.
While there are exceptions in the mid to lower levels of NAIA, DIII, DII, even some DI's, college baseball is played on a much higher level and with far more competitive intensity than anything that occurs before college.
Heck, even coaches who are recruiting players have a very difficult time "predicting" who will succeed and play and who won't. They make many recruiting mistakes.
Sometimes I think those looking upwards at the process try to over analyze it. That is not at all a criticism. When folks are looking up at it from HS, it is very hard to judge.
Ultimately, it is about doing the things Dad04 talked about. Make sure son's and parents attend college games and practices, more than a few. See the skills of the players and don't view them in terms of age or grade.
Listen carefully to what the coaches recruiting our son's say needs to get done for them to be able to compete.
Frankly, when our son's walk off that HS field for the last time, there can be predictions about whether they have the talent to improve enough to earn playing time and compete.
The real question is, and I very strongly believe this, is do they have the mental intensity, combined with the skills improvement, to step on a college diamond in about 9 months and succeed.
Those answers are decided by our son's, and how hard they work combined with how much they improve, in that period from June following graduation until an umpire calls out "play ball" the following February.

Here is the web page I drew some of the info from my post above from.

click through below to see their assessment of all positions

Go to:
URL=http://www.ncsasports.org/recruiting-tools/College-Baseball-Recruiting/baseball-recruiting-guidelines]or click here.[/URL]


Or click here.

quote:

Originally posted by Sandman:

quote:

Originally posted by Dad04:
DLOCK..Do yourself a favor and go watch some games and practices at the schools you are considering attending. It will probably become very clear to you what level of play you can excel at. That has been effective for many before you in determining their best athletic "fit". Good luck!

I've heard this advice from others, and it makes sense... except for the fact that the bulk of college starters are likely 21-22 years old, which is probably 4-5 years older than most HS juniors who might be watching. Wouldn't even D3 seem extremely challenging (i.e. much better than almost all HS players)???

You can achieve what your mind can concieve. The prototypical college player is 6' 200# with skills. If you watch practice and it looks way over your head, then it is. If you can't see it your mind, then it probably won't happen.

My son was a junior and we took him to watch the school's team he eventually played (well) on. He also went to see a top ranked D2 team that was recruiting him, 2005 national champ. He concluded the the D1 team was best for him...at 16 years old. You have to be confident in your ability to adjust and achieve and that is done one step at a time, getting ready for the next level.

The goal in front of every freshman is to put an upper classman on the bench, if for just an inning, to find a crack in the lineup or rotation. Don't forget that it's the coaches goal and need to develop talent, as well. It an't easy, but that's what makes it worthwhile.

I've got a freshman success story for you. This RHP is "listed" at 5-7. He's closer to 5-5. He established himself as a D1 closer last fall in practice....works 88-91, and is an animal in the gym. I could put him in my pocket.

Matt Hick PG Profile Yes he was found at a PG event.

Matt Hicks Roster

Matt Hicks has pitched 12 innings with a 1.42 ERA and has 9 K's as a freshman closer. Batters are hitting .171 against. I don't think Matt cares how old or big anyone is on his team or the other team.

Dad04,

Matt Hicks, special player, special kid! You can't watch him without realizing that.

Here's another not very big RHP, probably 5'10", though listed taller. He was successful right away as a freshman pitcher. Probable first round pick this year.

Sonny Gray

I really like your post before the one about Matt Hicks. If a player thinks size will stop him... It probably will!

I went to watch some D3 and NAIA schools who come down to AZ for some tournaments last year when I was a JR and it is pretty easy to see where you would fit. Even though they are 4-5 years older you can tell based on mechanics and fundamentals where you would fit in. The siza and strength will come as you get older but your mechanics and fundamentals will be the easiest way to tell if you'll fit in, atleast with D3 and NAIA

j5 - you're on it. Good luck.

PG Staff

What a huge arm on Sonny Gray! He's had a stellar career at Vandy. Another huge arm starting to make some noise is on LSU freshman Kevin Gausman, although in a taller body.

Coach Robichaux was asked by his recruiting coordinator if he would be "open to a vertically challanged righty (Hicks), who was a bulldog." to which Robichaux said, "If he can hang zero's I don't care how tall he isn't." Hicks doesn't care either.

PG Staff & Dad04 - Marcus Strohman at Duke. Maybe 5'9" Check at that K to BB ratio!

leftyshortstop,

Marcus Stroman

Good one! maybe we should start a thread specifically dedicated to those players under 6-foot tall. That would include a lot of excellent players.

2BMom,

I'd like to know what your son did to go from 82 to 88 MPH. Also, how long did it take him to achieve this? And what was his age and size at each of the two speeds? Congratulations to your son for his success and his hard earned achievement!

quote:

leftyshortstop,

Marcus Stroman

Good one! maybe we should start a thread specifically dedicated to those players under 6-foot tall. That would include a lot of excellent players.

Marcus is really something. He is well under 6 feet tall, but one of the strongest players I have seen. And a big arm. I was watching him pitch a game about nine days ago, and went over to see the guns in the 7th inning. He was still cruising at 95.

If you want to look at a smaller player that has made it big, you should look no further than this guy: http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jspplayer_id=525768.
Collins is 5 inches smaller than the next shortest pitcher on the Royals staff. He throws in the low to mid nineties and is really working on his curve ball. I think he originally signed with Seattle as a non-drafetd free agent.

I doubt anyone who saw his back in high-school projected him as a professional reliever.