How was it different then?

Are you referring to my son's recruitment during the 1980's? Or the Goodwill Series Int'l and Area Code games in the 1980's?

During my early years in Michigan, we did not know anything, except "play the game".

One common thread, "always play up". At age 12, my son played on the large field with 15 year old players. At age 15 he played for the Cubs Scout team against College players.

It is important to "sharpen" and improve the reflex action.

Bob

I’m not quite as experienced as Bob but I have some perspective on this. A couple things jump out at me. First, due to private instruction & travel ball, there are more good players than ever. So competition to make the best college rosters is fierce. Also, because of the widespread expansion of travel ball, the teams have become very watered down. This makes it difficult to evaluate the very best players matched up against other very good players. Too often it’s good player matched up against a not so good player. This leads to lots of recruiting mistakes and also leads to over-recruiting. All this combines to make it harder than ever to get on the field. The second major difference is the time commitment. Back in the day we had free time for personal interests. That is no longer the case at the D1, D2, & most NAIA programs. Playing college baseball is a full time job. Combined with class work today’s student athletes have virtually no free time - which makes it all the more important that it be a good fit as opposed to mandating that it be D1. IMO players (and parents) should view their college selection as a job interview - especially if they plan to play baseball. I imagine most members of HSBBW have at sometime had a job that they hated. It can make for a miserable existence no matter how much the pay is. Imagine if you had that job at 18 years old! Today’s college baseball players look like grown men and some of the play like grown men. But they are still 18 - 22 year kids, dealing with adult issues - sometimes without much guidance.

Pls anyone else with experience pls chime in.

I was 5’10” 190 pounds and had a lights out 3 point shot.  Hard worker.  Hustled.  And a gym rat.  That got me an offer as a preferred walk on at a Big Ten school.

Nowadays, that same talent level would be D3 or JUCO at best.  A great 3 point shot?  Hundreds of 8th graders can shoot like that, now.

Great topic. I can't wait to read more.  I feel like even in the past 5 years people have become increasingly (and for some devastatingly) focused on metrics so that players are spending more energy on hitting 90+ on the mound, 100+ exit velo and a sub 7 60 and not on how to place pitches and get batters out, situational hitting, and how to get a good jump (just as examples). I often wonder if chasing numbers and playing year-round (because you are afraid you will "fall behind" if you don't) leads to injuries and burn out.

@PTWood posted:

. I often wonder if chasing numbers and playing year-round (because you are afraid you will "fall behind" if you don't) leads to injuries and burn out.

I think there is some of that, but it’s anecdotal.  The Dominican Republic kids train relentlessly year round.  Yes, it’s a meat grinder on that island, and yes, some of those kids get broken.  However, part of what makes those DR kids more advanced than Americans is the year round training.

Part of what made Babe Ruth so great was that he was playing 200+ games a year between the ages of 11-18.

Its an individual and genetic thing, Baseball has always been a survival of the fittest.  Some players most definitely should be training less before their UCL tears.

@PTWood posted:

Great topic. I can't wait to read more.  I feel like even in the past 5 years people have become increasingly (and for some devastatingly) focused on metrics so that players are spending more energy on hitting 90+ on the mound, 100+ exit velo and a sub 7 60 and not on how to place pitches and get batters out, situational hitting, and how to get a good jump (just as examples). I often wonder if chasing numbers and playing year-round (because you are afraid you will "fall behind" if you don't) leads to injuries and burn out.

Good points, Paula - especially about chasing numbers.

The big difference to me is my kids got to target areas of the country they wanted to play and attend college. Showcases and major travel tournaments got them in front of the right teams along with promotion from their travel coaches.

When I went through recruiting (70’s) it was all word of mouth and programs came to the player. Legion was “the game.” The further your team went the more exposure you got. Other exposure was playing well when the pro scouts were there to see the stud on the field.

Paula, Adbono, Good Knight and 3&2:

"Knowledge of the Game" is important for success, today and tomorrow. Ask the question WHY? When I watched a HS game, the hitter pulled a ball over the LF fence foul!

I stated that the next pitch would be a curve ball outside. Yes, indeed. Question, why not throw again inside and obtain 2 strikes. Once a pro scout remarked about a very good HS player [father a former MLB] that the young man had a "foul ball" swing. INTERESTING!!

As a hitter, if I cannot think about "metrics". If the pitcher is "too quick", I move back in the box, remove the chalk line, coke the bat, reduce the back swing and wait for the pitch where I can see the white ball.

To improve quickness Pro scouts have suggested running the 40 yard.

Most quick dash's are Home to 1b, 1b to 3rd baseball, LF to CF. 1st step quickness!.

"LEARN AND PLAY"

BOB

@3and2Fastball point taken but most of us aren't raising Babe Ruth (he also drank and used chewing tobacco when he was playing those 200+ games a year) and I bet his Dad didn't have a pocket radar. All tongue and cheek but he is an obvious unicorn IMHO and massive success aside, we chose a different path.

The DR example is an interesting and compelling one but on the flip side we probably have no clue how many kids do get injured, burned out, etc. in their system. I think sometimes the issue with chasing numbers is that we are asking kids' bodies to do things that they are not currently (or possibly will ever) be able to do. In measuring and publishing everything, the mindset can become going after those numbers and not just going out and playing the game to learn, to have fun, be a good teammate and to get better. I don't have an answer to how to fix it. I think evaluating baseball has to be the hardest job ever and numbers give evaluators a starting point... but I think chasing numbers is a problem.

I'll give one more example and then I'll shut up. The first time PTWoodson went to a showcase, his exit velo off the tee was pretty mediocre all things considered. One of his teammates saw it and offered to do a lesson to show how to hit off the tee to maximize exit velo. I don't even remember what he told him but none if it was good swing mechanics. That's what I mean when I say chasing numbers. I'm not talking about working hard to get bigger and stronger (and then your numbers improve as a result). I'm not even talking about throwing one pitch as hard as you can in the dirt to get a magic number in a game. I'm talking about consistently working JUST to hit 90/6.9/100 to the detriment of real baseball development.

And @Consultant, my poor soon is like a locomotive...takes him a while to get going. His home to third will stand up to anyone but his 10 yard split is incredibly average!  Luckily he's a lefty and can get down the line quickly but every time the stopwatches come out I worry. LOL

PTWood:  great points all around!  

I think there is some sort of median that the Baseball world hasn’t completely figured out yet, but are getting closer with the advent of greater technology.  

There is much to be said for actually being able to have your body and mind still intact at the age of 20-21 so that you can really play well at that age.

Trevor Bauer seems to be on the cutting edge when it comes to arm training.  I think some kids aren’t throwing enough, especially long toss.  And a lot of arm injuries are due to poor mechanics more so than usage.  

And, yes I’ll say it:  a lot of arm injuries are the direct fault of high school and travel coaches.  Kids throwing 120+ pitches in a game to get the team to state etc

@PTWood posted:

@3and2Fastball point taken but most of us aren't raising Babe Ruth (he also drank and used chewing tobacco when he was playing those 200+ games a year) and I bet his Dad didn't have a pocket radar. All tongue and cheek but he is an obvious unicorn IMHO and massive success aside, we chose a different path.

The DR example is an interesting and compelling one but on the flip side we probably have no clue how many kids do get injured, burned out, etc. in their system. I think sometimes the issue with chasing numbers is that we are asking kids' bodies to do things that they are not currently (or possibly will ever) be able to do. In measuring and publishing everything, the mindset can become going after those numbers and not just going out and playing the game to learn, to have fun, be a good teammate and to get better. I don't have an answer to how to fix it. I think evaluating baseball has to be the hardest job ever and numbers give evaluators a starting point... but I think chasing numbers is a problem.

I'll give one more example and then I'll shut up. The first time PTWoodson went to a showcase, his exit velo off the tee was pretty mediocre all things considered. One of his teammates saw it and offered to do a lesson to show how to hit off the tee to maximize exit velo. I don't even remember what he told him but none if it was good swing mechanics. That's what I mean when I say chasing numbers. I'm not talking about working hard to get bigger and stronger (and then your numbers improve as a result). I'm not even talking about throwing one pitch as hard as you can in the dirt to get a magic number in a game. I'm talking about consistently working JUST to hit 90/6.9/100 to the detriment of real baseball development.

And @Consultant, my poor soon is like a locomotive...takes him a while to get going. His home to third will stand up to anyone but his 10 yard split is incredibly average!  Luckily he's a lefty and can get down the line quickly but every time the stopwatches come out I worry. LOL

Well said Paula!

Paula;

if he can hit over the fence and "knock" in RBI's, he can "jog"!

His Summer team will be valuable asset to his future.

Bob

Consultant- when your son played on a scout team when he was 15, how did that happen?  Someone you knew?  Pure happenstance?  That is pretty amazing.

The Cubs scouts watch him play in HS. He was a SS average speed, strong arm, good soft hands, a switch hitter, baseball knowledge. The Scout team with HS players from Northern California and also several ex ML players. His game 16 innings against Sac CC he struck out 4 times. On the way home I said "do you want to go back next week"

He said yes. That week, Kenny Williams [now White Sox President] was sent to the team to learn play 3b. My son gave him instruction and they friends since that day.

Bob

When recruiters, scouts and MLB stop focusing on numbers and metrics the upcoming players will as well. In today’s day of analytics how do you think that will end?

players And training focus on what gets them noticed.

Bob I love reading your experiences...very enlightening

@PTWood posted:

@3and2Fastball point taken but most of us aren't raising Babe Ruth (he also drank and used chewing tobacco when he was playing those 200+ games a year) and I bet his Dad didn't have a pocket radar. All tongue and cheek but he is an obvious unicorn IMHO and massive success aside, we chose a different path.

The DR example is an interesting and compelling one but on the flip side we probably have no clue how many kids do get injured, burned out, etc. in their system. I think sometimes the issue with chasing numbers is that we are asking kids' bodies to do things that they are not currently (or possibly will ever) be able to do. In measuring and publishing everything, the mindset can become going after those numbers and not just going out and playing the game to learn, to have fun, be a good teammate and to get better. I don't have an answer to how to fix it. I think evaluating baseball has to be the hardest job ever and numbers give evaluators a starting point... but I think chasing numbers is a problem.

I'll give one more example and then I'll shut up. The first time PTWoodson went to a showcase, his exit velo off the tee was pretty mediocre all things considered. One of his teammates saw it and offered to do a lesson to show how to hit off the tee to maximize exit velo. I don't even remember what he told him but none if it was good swing mechanics. That's what I mean when I say chasing numbers. I'm not talking about working hard to get bigger and stronger (and then your numbers improve as a result). I'm not even talking about throwing one pitch as hard as you can in the dirt to get a magic number in a game. I'm talking about consistently working JUST to hit 90/6.9/100 to the detriment of real baseball development.

And @Consultant, my poor soon is like a locomotive...takes him a while to get going. His home to third will stand up to anyone but his 10 yard split is incredibly average!  Luckily he's a lefty and can get down the line quickly but every time the stopwatches come out I worry. LOL

I agree playing “beat the metrics” with poor mechanics is a bad idea. My son did take training specific to running the 60. It got him down to 6.55. Sixty training won’t disrupt base running skills. What it did do was get him to the optimum start position and improve his reaction for the first step.

This is an awesome thread.

@Consultant you mind if I ask what things were like at the very first Area Code Games?

@tigerbaseball15 posted:

This is an awesome thread.

@Consultant you mind if I ask what things were like at the very first Area Code Games?

I wasn’t at the very first Area Code Games. But I heard that they parked cars around the outfield and turned on their lights so they could play after dark. Babe Ruth hit 2 home runs and Christie Mathewson pitched a complete game.

TigerBaseball;

We used Zupo Field in 1986, the home of the Lodi Dodgers. It was indeed like the "Field of Dreams". The idea was the combination of discussions with the Northern California Pro Scouts and Sam Jones of the Boston Celtics.  Sam was involved in the Nike Basketball Camps. We filed a trademark for Area Code Baseball.

The cooperation of the Scouts was amazing. The scouts had played in Zupo Field and during our 16 hours daily at the ballpark many "stories" were exchanged.

The Scouts and Scouting Directors provided "fine tuning" for each year. It was like operating a Minor League team for 6 days.

Arranging hotels, selling tickets, chasing foul balls, planning the program, hiring umpires and praying "No Injuries".

Adbono; "We re-charged the car batteries for the lights".

Bob