two boys, one sr., one jr., get knee walking drunk in the school parking lot during morning break. They are both on the baseball team by the way.
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They'd be arrested. Suspended for 3 days, then sent to AEP, prohibited from participating in any school related activity, including baseball.
But, then the coach may "have some influence"....
But, then the coach may "have some influence"....
I believe that our county has a zero-tolerance policy regarding alcohol. That would mean expulsion. They would have to go to the alternative high school to finish out the year and the sr. would not be able to graduate with his class. With our principal, I tend to think that he would call the police and they would be arrested for under age drinking.
In many cases drinking on school grounds, under age or legal is punishable by arrest, fine and possible jail
At our school,
They would be ticketed and fined by the police. Suspended by the school and if it is the 1st offense, they would be suspended from baseball for 1/3 of the season, coach may take additional action. 2nd offense the entire season, 3 offense cannot particpate in any extra curricular activites at all.
They would be ticketed and fined by the police. Suspended by the school and if it is the 1st offense, they would be suspended from baseball for 1/3 of the season, coach may take additional action. 2nd offense the entire season, 3 offense cannot particpate in any extra curricular activites at all.
...caught on school property the athlete is banned from sports for 180 days.
The problem in our town seems to be the policy off campus and off season. No accountablity.
A new guidebook on policy is being drafted at this time.
The problem in our town seems to be the policy off campus and off season. No accountablity.
A new guidebook on policy is being drafted at this time.
At our high school this would happen:
Expulsion from school, off the team, mandatory counseling that lasts as long as it takes (through the summer most likely), participation in drug court program. Player would address the team at practice and express his thoughts about letting the team down. Might get back on team the following year at coaches discretion. Student would be allowed to take finals and off campus tutoring would be available.
Guaranteed. I know somebody it happened to. The kid might not believe it, but the school actually has his best interest at heart.
Expulsion from school, off the team, mandatory counseling that lasts as long as it takes (through the summer most likely), participation in drug court program. Player would address the team at practice and express his thoughts about letting the team down. Might get back on team the following year at coaches discretion. Student would be allowed to take finals and off campus tutoring would be available.
Guaranteed. I know somebody it happened to. The kid might not believe it, but the school actually has his best interest at heart.
it depends......how are their stats ?
our school would not have students wandering the parking lots during school where they could get into trouble.
zero tolerance policies are for people not willing or capable of dealing with and resolving a situation with their own judgment - it's sad really (zero tolerance)
zero tolerance policies are for people not willing or capable of dealing with and resolving a situation with their own judgment - it's sad really (zero tolerance)
Bee,
Agree.
Agree.
Bee,
I'm not sure what is to 'judsge' about being drunk during school, on school grounds. Seems to me that zero tolerance is exactly what is necessary in this situation.
I'm not sure what is to 'judsge' about being drunk during school, on school grounds. Seems to me that zero tolerance is exactly what is necessary in this situation.
judge
Shortly after the beginning of Jan, 04, 2 seniors(both signed at D-1s)from my son's old HS were arrested at a District opponent's school where they were drunk at a basketball game. Hauled to jail in another city.... they were both "suspended" from the baseball program(practice but no game participation) for 30 days. I guess they did not even slap their wrists hard cuz they did not want them to be making bad throws upon their return.... Nothing new here, happened EVERY year my son was in HS to some extent, usually to a parent/teacher's kid.
My kid KNEW that if he could not make better choices than that that he would have forfieted his "RIGHT" to play baseball while still living under my roof- never had even a hint of a problem from my son( and I am far from a good example!!!)
My kid KNEW that if he could not make better choices than that that he would have forfieted his "RIGHT" to play baseball while still living under my roof- never had even a hint of a problem from my son( and I am far from a good example!!!)
Done for 8 weeks. No practice no games no after school activities (can't even attend games) no exceptions.
Thanks for the responses. My first thoughts when I learned of the incident was the same as Bee's, "why were they allowed to go to the parking lot"? These kids were suspended for five days, and returned to the team. Wonder how fearful my 8th grader is of the school administration?
Should he be afraid of them?
Our school would be pretty harsh; arrest, alternative school, no sports for the rest of the year and possibly next year for the Jr. and the Senior couldn't "walk" with his class.
Then again, if it were a football player, they probably would ask if he needed another beer.
Then again, if it were a football player, they probably would ask if he needed another beer.
Sometimes it is best to invoke a penalty with a visual end. In this case, if they were first time offenders of school policies, and I held the power, I would invoke a 3 day school suspension, substance abuse counciling, and a 1/2 year suspension from baseball. The baseball portion comes with the stipulation that they attend all practices in street clothes and attend all games in the dugout. Any variance of this penalty results in a full season suspension. Kids make stupid mistakes at times and I think the onfield incarceration is a penalty that would stick in the head of a real player. I would hope the mom and dad would penalize at home also.
^^ Good thoughts. Must be us crazy liberal oregonians. IMO, making their baseball team time affected by what they do in the offseason or summer is so stupid, it's unbelievable. Note to coaches: We're kids. We don't care THAT much about baseball, we do not think nor will we ever think that removing us from a team was a good idea. We will remember you, smile, and think "that dickhead kicked me off the team for something that wasn't at all related."
If you want to take an issue with behavior in uniform, that's fine. I think the rule should be, possibly, that you can't play while suspended. Possibly. What good does it do to remove kids from things they like? What's the rationale? "Gee, that'll teach him, if we remove any constructive activities for him to do. Because you know that if a kid isn't doing anything for a year and doesn't have anything to look forward to, he's sure to not start drinking or smoking again."
I do not understand why this country goes ballistic about alcohol. Honestly. Does the rest of the civilized world drink? Yes. Do they have school shootings? No. Is there a correlation between alcohol and crazy lawless teenagers? No. Don't make it so taboo, and we won't want to do it.
If you want to take an issue with behavior in uniform, that's fine. I think the rule should be, possibly, that you can't play while suspended. Possibly. What good does it do to remove kids from things they like? What's the rationale? "Gee, that'll teach him, if we remove any constructive activities for him to do. Because you know that if a kid isn't doing anything for a year and doesn't have anything to look forward to, he's sure to not start drinking or smoking again."
I do not understand why this country goes ballistic about alcohol. Honestly. Does the rest of the civilized world drink? Yes. Do they have school shootings? No. Is there a correlation between alcohol and crazy lawless teenagers? No. Don't make it so taboo, and we won't want to do it.
Jeez J where does it say offseason? 
Generally it is not the Coach who kicks a player off the team, it is generally the AD or Principle who takes disciplinary action.
Any extra curricular is a privilege. what do most of us parents do when a kid misbehaves?
We take away privileges of some sort. This misbehavior may not have had anything to do with the privilage taken away, I generally tried to take away a privilage that will have an impact on them.
That is exactly what the schools do. I may or may not agree with the length of the punishments, but I agree with the punishments themselves.
I, by the way, am not a fan of Zero tolerence. 2 kids from a local school were busted at a beer party. They claimed they were not drinking and the cops gave them a breathalyzer test and they blew 0.0 so they were telling the truth. They were still suspended for 20% of the season for just being at the party. I have a problem with that, guilt by association.
Any extra curricular is a privilege. what do most of us parents do when a kid misbehaves?
We take away privileges of some sort. This misbehavior may not have had anything to do with the privilage taken away, I generally tried to take away a privilage that will have an impact on them.
That is exactly what the schools do. I may or may not agree with the length of the punishments, but I agree with the punishments themselves.
I, by the way, am not a fan of Zero tolerence. 2 kids from a local school were busted at a beer party. They claimed they were not drinking and the cops gave them a breathalyzer test and they blew 0.0 so they were telling the truth. They were still suspended for 20% of the season for just being at the party. I have a problem with that, guilt by association.
At my house, the baseball team and the school administrators would be the least of his worries! It's a sad state of affairs that two kids feel the need to be drunk in the middle of the day!
BigWi,
You are missing the point!!! Those 2 players at your school most likely KNEW that they were not to be drinking or be where others were illegally drinking. The players CHOSE to be at the BEER PARTY, too late to complain about consequences.
Kids need LESS excuses made for their in-appropriate behaviors and MORE accountability for for the decisions THEY make.
As "leftydad" would say, "just my opinion.".
OPP
You are missing the point!!! Those 2 players at your school most likely KNEW that they were not to be drinking or be where others were illegally drinking. The players CHOSE to be at the BEER PARTY, too late to complain about consequences.
Kids need LESS excuses made for their in-appropriate behaviors and MORE accountability for for the decisions THEY make.
As "leftydad" would say, "just my opinion.".
OPP
AMEN
OPP, WOW, talk about missing the point, "it's on the tip of your cap" - you're pretty harsh - a couple of kids at a party where alcohol was (also) present and they choose to say NO!
I'd give them a pat on the back
and a reward for making the right choice - you're saying they should leave "friends" who make other (wrong) choices to drive themselves home - I disagree, if they were mine, or if the others who made the wrong choice were mine, I would want them there to be an influence (and also drive)
zero tolerance = "zero thought/zero guts"
if I knew someone who were punished by the (my) school system for that, I'd reward them somehow to show my gratitude for their guts
ps - good thread, but basicly hypothetical, as I'm not buying that 2 "nearly adult" hs males could get "knee walkin' drunk" in the morning during a morning "study break"
I'd give them a pat on the back
and a reward for making the right choice - you're saying they should leave "friends" who make other (wrong) choices to drive themselves home - I disagree, if they were mine, or if the others who made the wrong choice were mine, I would want them there to be an influence (and also drive)zero tolerance = "zero thought/zero guts"
if I knew someone who were punished by the (my) school system for that, I'd reward them somehow to show my gratitude for their guts
ps - good thread, but basicly hypothetical, as I'm not buying that 2 "nearly adult" hs males could get "knee walkin' drunk" in the morning during a morning "study break"
O.K...let's take this reward logic a little further. We're talking about illegal activity, right? What if our "friends" are dealing a little hash, boosting a car, or any other "small time" crime. Do we give them the grateful pat on the back there if they hang around to maybe be a positive influence? 
After all, these are our friends, right? Give me a break! Sometimes the right choice is walking away...this includes underage, what you call only alcohol. We wander where our culture is going...look around at the acceptable behavior now for teenagers! 
After all, these are our friends, right? Give me a break! Sometimes the right choice is walking away...this includes underage, what you call only alcohol. We wander where our culture is going...look around at the acceptable behavior now for teenagers! quote:
Originally posted by OnePlayer'sPop:
BigWi,
You are missing the point!!! Those 2 players at your school most likely KNEW that they were not to be drinking or be where others were illegally drinking. The players CHOSE to be at the BEER PARTY, too late to complain about consequences.
Kids need LESS excuses made for their in-appropriate behaviors and MORE accountability for for the decisions THEY make.
As "leftydad" would say, "just my opinion.".
OPP
OPP,
Just to clarify things, it was a rival school, not the one my son attends.
No, I am not missing the point. I understand it fully. They were where they were not suppose to be. They got caught and are being punished.
I don't see what I wrote as making any excuses for those kids. Nor was I complaining about the consequences, heck we get to play them while they are on suspension.
I was simply using them as an example of what I think is wrong with the zero tolerence at least as applied at that school. I just disagree with them being punished for simply being at the party. As Bee pointed out, they chose to say no but wanted to hang out with their friends.
DaddyBo I didnt know beer was illegal. Note that at no point did poster say that teens were drinking, or what drinking age his state is. Personally I think grand theft auto and drug trafficking are a bit worse than having a bud.
quote:
Originally posted by DaddyBo:
O.K...let's take this reward logic a little further. We're talking about illegal activity, right? What if our "friends" are dealing a little hash, boosting a car, or any other "small time" crime. Do we give them the grateful pat on the back there if they hang around to maybe be a positive influence?
DaddyBo
O.K...let's take this illegal logic a little further. We're talking about illegal activity, right?
Since you have decided to give an example in the extreme ( equating underage drinking to dealing drugs or stealing a car) I'm sure you won't mind if I do the same.
Has your son ever been in the car when you (or one of his friends) went a few miles per hour over the speed limit? Did you turn him into the AD and get him suspended (or what ever the punishment at his school would be?) Did he ever get a speeding ticket? Did you turn him into the AD and get him suspended (or what ever the punishment at his school would be?)
They are both illegal activities.
Now I know you will say that you cannot compare underage drinking to speeding. BUT, I claim that underage drinking is closer in severity to speeding then to dealing hash or stealing a car! Around here you get a ticket for either underage drinking or speeding, with the fine being comparable. Whereas you get arrested for dealing hash or stealing a car.
That being said, I agree completely that the proper thing to do would be for the kids to get the heck outta there ASAP. I have told my kids that on many occasions.
Where I disagree is that I believe that the punishment for simply being at the party should be up to the parents and not the school officials.
Many schools have official policies about even being at the party where alcohol is being consumed by anyone. Quite often the ONLY exception would be if you were in the presence of your parents/legal guardian. And don't even try to give me the story about the parents who buy the alcohol for their kids and friends and ONLY let them consume it at home!!!!
About the only length of time those players should have stayed at the party would have been to notice what was going on and remind themselves that if they valued their baseball playing privilege they need to leave immediately.
It is a cop-out to state that they could then be the designated drivers for those who had been drinking. If I remember right, it is illegal in all 50 states for persons under the age of 21 to drink alcohol, no matter how much you want to rationalize any part of it. If you are willing to do the crime, you need to be willing to accept the time!! Quit making excuses for the poor little kiddies, they are supposed to learning from the consequences of their mistakes while growing up.
There are 2 kinds of disciplines in life- self and imposed. One builds character the other builds rap sheets.
About the only length of time those players should have stayed at the party would have been to notice what was going on and remind themselves that if they valued their baseball playing privilege they need to leave immediately.
It is a cop-out to state that they could then be the designated drivers for those who had been drinking. If I remember right, it is illegal in all 50 states for persons under the age of 21 to drink alcohol, no matter how much you want to rationalize any part of it. If you are willing to do the crime, you need to be willing to accept the time!! Quit making excuses for the poor little kiddies, they are supposed to learning from the consequences of their mistakes while growing up.
There are 2 kinds of disciplines in life- self and imposed. One builds character the other builds rap sheets.
Our school Code of Conduct is clear. They would be suspended for 1/2 of the sports season. If they attend Counseling, they can then ask for a meeting with the Principal and AD to have the suspension shortened. However, they still come under any disciplinary actions of the Head Coach. We have one now. He was caught at a function. He has to serve 7 games suspension because of meeting the counseling requirement and his blood test showed he hadn't been drinking. However, he did help get the alcohol. I will talk with his parents when this is over for any additional suspension. He has been able to practice. I haven't spent much time concentrating on him because I have to get those eligiable to play ready for games. Well, that is our policy.
Good points noted by BigWI and JustMe...I did make assumptions that underage drinking was taking place, by there being what I assumed to be underage high school kids present. 
The main point of my "take it a little further" logic was again emphasized by OPP. We are a long ways removed and a lot more accepting of behavior that is very dangerous than where we were years ago...and I don't believe it is a more advanced acceptability. I see mentioned in these posts a very volatile mixture (again maybe some assumptions...based on the way it is)...adults, underage kids, alcohol and cars. Oh, and by the way, since I accept your premise that I might have streched it some by comparing drug dealing, robbery ...I do firmly beleve there is a difference between drinking & driving, and going 75 in a 70 zone. 
The main point of my "take it a little further" logic was again emphasized by OPP. We are a long ways removed and a lot more accepting of behavior that is very dangerous than where we were years ago...and I don't believe it is a more advanced acceptability. I see mentioned in these posts a very volatile mixture (again maybe some assumptions...based on the way it is)...adults, underage kids, alcohol and cars. Oh, and by the way, since I accept your premise that I might have streched it some by comparing drug dealing, robbery ...I do firmly beleve there is a difference between drinking & driving, and going 75 in a 70 zone.
"I do firmly beleve there is a difference between drinking & driving, and going 75 in a 70 zone. "
I only made the comparison as a counter to your arguement.
The ONLY boys I was defending were the ones attended the party and did not drink and still got busted.
Those who did drink, I do not defend at all.
I only made the comparison as a counter to your arguement.The ONLY boys I was defending were the ones attended the party and did not drink and still got busted.
Those who did drink, I do not defend at all.
Hey "Big Dub"...we keep posting, we Might even agree on more stuff than not! 
After reading your bio we're probably more alike than we care to admit (Love my onion rings) 
After reading your bio we're probably more alike than we care to admit (Love my onion rings) quote:
Originally posted by DaddyBo:
Hey "Big Dub"...we keep posting, we Might even agree on more stuff than not!
I have no doubt that we probably agree on more then we disagree.
I know I am a very very intelligent individual, and assuming that you are too, you must agree with me.